Tyson Boyd sells optimism

ep29 Tyson Boyd sells optimism

[00:00:00] Somewhere around year three of my marriage, I think we sat down with a financial advisor to talk about our financial plan, our financial future. We were both a few years into our first careers outta university. And it seemed time to join the world of adults and dig into these RRSP things. One of the first requirements of meeting our financial planner was to both take this financial style test.

I’m pretty sure it’s called something cooler than that, but I can’t recall anymore. The results shouldn’t have been surprising. We were always labeled as. Air quotes, opposites attract since dating, and sure enough, the key feedback from the test was how completely opposite our risk tolerance was. High risk, no risk.

I was high risk. Most likely to lose all our savings on being silent partner in a pyramid scheme. Not surprising that I approached the music business with some reckless abandon. Before I was [00:01:00] doing anything substative. I was dipping my toes into every adjacent opportunity to be around the emerging indie scene, which included finding a way to put on shows, bootstrap concert promoter, battle of the bands, Christian Punk rock, CD release parties, and then eventually the real high risk investment.

A record label. I wanted to gamble more on my hunches, on my friends, but nothing tempers your official investment guy diagnosis than Two babies and a mortgage. Tyson Boyd is a talent buyer, and it needs to always be said. One of the best guys in the business I’ve ever met at many levels, the job of booking an artist for a performance is broader than just buying the services rendered.

Tyson has been in every trench related to the battle it takes to put on a show, the promoter, the poster designer, the artist liaison, [00:02:00] the showrunner, the janitor, the bartender, the merch guy, it goes on.

But the most impressive title to carry with longevity. Talent buyer, one of the riskiest roles in the risky business of live music events, the performer has a price guarantee. The buyer can agree to that price, but the buyer needs to know the total of markup plus guarantee to divide by minimum total of tickets needed to be sold to arrive at a ticket price based on an educated guess on the ticket price ceiling for fans, which also requires the educated guesses on the appetite for this show.

It’s math. It’s just math. But then the math needs a gut check. Will enough people really pay that much? Will I lose my shirt on this show? I used to be a tree planter in the summers to pay for college. Terrible job. The company I worked for, they would bid on a section of land, and I’m [00:03:00] talking clear cut on the side of a mountain.

Ugly gross. They would bid on this section of land against others. The math would essentially break down to a price per tree. What was the cost of each tree to the company that I was putting in the ground? And that would determine how much I was getting paid per tree. And sometimes you arrived at your total shit plot of land and realize that you’re about to lose your shirt because like the music business one night to the next, you just can’t control everything.

And sometimes. You never know so much respect. My name is Glen Erickson. This is Almost Famous Enough. Thanks for spending your time with us. This is Tyson Boyd.

 

Glen: but thanks, Tyson Boyd [00:04:00] for joining me, uh, on the podcast. local guy Edmonton Base. We’re both talking out of Edmonton. Tyson, like, I guess for, I was thinking about this only like 15 minutes ago, and I was like, is he, is he venue owner? Is, is concert promoter? Like, you’ve worn a lot of hats and you generally have to wear multiple hats, even if they’re sort of in the same vertical.

But how would you, how would you probably introduce yourself if we’re walking into a music conference together and introducing ourselves?

Tyson Boyd: So, you know, I kind of, I, I, I I try not to confuse the situation, I guess, depending if I’m representing the Starlight Room, I, I always, uh, introduce myself as one of the owner operator and talent buyers of the Starlight Room. and if I’m kind of doing, uh, more console works focused things, which is our independent concert company, uh, we do a lot of concerts in, different cities and venues.

And then I’ll just say I’m a talent buyer of concert works. and I find for the most [00:05:00] part, I could keep the two separate though. They’re very typically the same.

Glen: Yeah. Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: Yeah, it’s just people, it, it depends on the setting that you have. A lot of people have more familiarity than with Starlight Room. unless I’m down in, you know, conferences in the States, people have more familiarity with concert works,

Glen: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, yeah, the, the, I mean, you have the obvious overlap of talent buying, sort of being a core, uh, role and skillset, obviously to the purpose of what you’re doing. But, you know, actually running a venue and, um, you know, everything from, you know, shoveling the, the sidewalks if you have to, to taking out the trash to, uh, you, you get all that kind of stuff that gets to go along with that, you know, principle.

Tyson Boyd: And I do introduce myself as a plumber, a cleaner, uh, you know,

Glen: Yeah,

Tyson Boyd: stage hand, whichever, right? Uh, that’s just kind of part of running a venue is, uh,

Glen: a hundred percent.

Tyson Boyd: small, any small business you take on all the tasks.

Glen: [00:06:00] Yeah. would you say like, because we’re gonna sort of talk a little bit, or at least, uh, I want to catch up and get sort of a, an arc of your. You know, life in this scene, in this industry a bit. So it feels a little retrospective, uh, for a little few moments, is in retrospective. Do you feel like talent buyer is kind of the main horse you’ve been riding most of this time?

Or, like, I, I mean, I wanna get into the different things and phases and stuff that you’ve gone through from the start to get to where you’re now, but I was just wondering if you feel like that, like what to you holds up when you look back as kind of what’s the, what’s the main horse you were riding through?

This whole thing?

Tyson Boyd: Um, I think talent buyer is kind of, uh, probably the best suited spot. Um, because I mean, ev every it, that, that’s kind of like one, once you buy the show, you put it on. The markets say, and kind of every, all directives cascade from [00:07:00] there.

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: you know what I mean? As far as, you know, when, once you put it on sale, do the marketing, uh, when the tour is coming around, uh, you’re getting production people in line, technicians and everything.

So I guess like the very core part of where it starts is the talent buying position, and then it all kind of flows from there.

Glen: Okay. Well let, let’s do this. Oh, I should let you know too, like full transparency. Like, uh, as far as I’m into my second season now, I haven’t gotten terribly topical. Do you know what I mean? Like, uh, I mean, it sort of is the overall purpose not to get topical and more so just conversational with somebody about their career.

And, and I definitely plan to keep it that way, but I am gonna allow a little more diverging into just specifically, you know, your section of what the music industry is. And I, and I don’t know that everybody always understands what’s behind the veil. I think there’s some interest there, and I think there’s a lot of.

You know, we’ll, [00:08:00] we’ll try to keep the politics out of it, but there’s a lot of politics and, and just current trend discussion on the state of live music and venues and local and all of those things kind of mixed in that same soup. which I know you’ve done a lot of public speaking on and work hard to advocate for and have some ideas.

And I would love to hear those ideas too. And I wanna be able to give space for that, which I, I think is important. So if that’s cool. so let me start here though before I kind of go all the way back to Baby Tyson and, and figure out how we got here. But, cause if anybody stands by you or anything, but baby Tyson, Tyson’s, a man of good stature, everybody should know.

and, and, but the, the, the term talent buyer, right? I don’t even know. That sort of the average public fan knows that that’s the name of the person who’s basically the one who’s mostly punching the ticket on if a [00:09:00] show is happening or how that whole thing works. Right. They may know the term concert promoter, I think that’s been tossed around for decades, right.

As someone’s a concert promoter. but a talent buyer has kind of really taken that over in the last 15 years, I feel as the, the primary terminology and, and, and people can put on shows at all different levels, obviously. Right. Like I’ve put on shows in halls and churches and, and rented out, you know, a space at the, the U of a back when, was it Dinwoody Lounge, I think, um, up there and stuff.

And, so all over and, but I never fancied myself a concert promoter or a talent buyer, but I. Figured out how to put on a show and it, all that to say it can happen on lots of levels, but the profession itself, how we’re, it’s recognized, how it sort of fits into the ecosystem of, you know, bands or touring and agents are setting up those tours and all these different people at different places and then you have a specific role.

I’m wondering if [00:10:00] you could give us that, you know, ceiling view of like, what is the talent buyer actually in this ecosystem of, of live music and, and how that, what your job looks like.

Tyson Boyd: Sure. so touching back on what you said too about a concert promoter versus talent buyer, I definitely did notice it kind of distinguish itself, uh, maybe about somewhere in between 10 and 15 years ago. And, uh, I mean, it, it kind of boiled down mostly to my observation and, uh, conferences and such.

Um, I found that there’s a lot of, uh, you, you, you know how concert promoters have a hustle where they have a bunch of people on the ground selling tickets and then they get like x amount of dollars per ticket that they sell. And, you know, that especially happens in electronic, world and hip hop and whatnot.

And then sometimes too, when bands are selling their own tickets up on behalf of the band. the word promoter got used very loosely that point.

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: that’s where the [00:11:00] talent buyer. Uh, position kind of became a little bit more distinguished, I guess you could say, when you’re kind of at conferences or something.

So people would kind of understand a little bit better. and the whole talent buyer position is, is essentially, you know, you either programming a venue or working on behalf of a concert promoter and, uh, buying tours or something. It’s basically the negotiation process of, um. Finding your artists and putting the bill together and, uh, taking a look at what that ticket price is gonna be, and then showing, uh, you know, typically on paper, on a spreadsheet, what your expenses are going to be.

And then, uh, you know, what the revenue is gonna be like for the band. And there’s all kinds of deals that you could have. There’s other flat deals, uh, but most typically, uh, the deals that you kind of come forward with, uh. You know, even just based locally or with tours is you come to some sort of agreed upon flat fee then it’ll be like a bonus structure on top, [00:12:00] which is called a split. And, uh, once you beat all of your expenses and you match your guarantee, anything on top of that is gonna be split. And very typically it’s like an 85% to the artist and 15% additional to, uh, the

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: or

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: Yeah. What, whatever the talent buyer puts in place there. Right. So,

Glen: Yep.

Tyson Boyd: it’s just basically kind of, uh, navigating, you know, agreed terms for either when an artist is stopping into your city, your venue, or whichever. And, uh, from there, like I said, that’s kind of your blueprint. And from there, once you have your offer and uh, your plan and budgeting in place, then it all kind of cascades in a process from when you announce and go on sale all the way to when you produce the show day of.

Glen: Yeah. Yeah. So, so that means just a quick interjection, like right off the bat people can probably start doing the math that like, you know, [00:13:00] you’re probably juggling a calendar more than anybody, more than anybody around, uh, as that kind of, uh, in that kind of a role.

Tyson Boyd: Hundred percent. And, uh, at the Starlight Room, uh, I remember giving you a tour when we were adding, uh, the stage in the back

Glen: Yep.

Tyson Boyd: downstairs now we have three stages that we’re juggling within that calendar, varying capacities. So it becomes a little bit more of a juggle and a, it’s, uh, it, it, it, uh, it keeps life interesting.

I guess. Um, you know, the advantage of that, um, as well for a place like the Starlight Room is of course we have the really big room, but not many people start their careers right on the big stage. You

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: themselves up towards that. there’s a lot of stuff that we’re really interested in with programming as well, that are pretty niche genres and, uh, you know, there’s limited fan bases for them or whatever.

And, you know, people typically like to keep an environment tight.[00:14:00]

Glen: Yep.

Tyson Boyd: the smaller, smaller venues and smaller stages work and, as artists grow and develop, you can move them into the bigger capacities.

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: And that goes as well outside of Starlight, of course, you know, uh, we’re, we’re very famous for a lot of artists that kind of start, uh, maybe their first show or first couple shows at the room, and then expanded to festivals and larger venues.

Glen: Yeah, I mean we can, we can touch on that in a bit ’cause I was gonna ask you and, and just chat about the history of the Starlight Room, especially since you, we just moved past this 35th anniversary and you guys had a great set of shows and lineups to celebrate all of that and kinda look back at 35 years and 35 years takes you all back, all the way back to like the infamous Nirvana playing, you know, the Bronx, the, the, an an older version of the same sort of space and venue.

Um, so yeah. And then I, I remember hearing you mention a couple of acts that are more recent that have gone on to play [00:15:00] arenas and festivals and have 10 million streams, I think like you were talking about, was. Do you remember which couple of those bands you were talking about that wasn’t that long ago that you said were hitting now arenas.

Tyson Boyd: I don’t remember specifically, but there

Glen: Oh yeah,

Tyson Boyd: re recent, recently, like just before Pandemic. Uh, I did a show with this group called Bad Omens, and they

Glen: that’s it. I, I was gonna say Oman, but yeah. Bad omans. Okay.

Tyson Boyd: Bad Omen. And, um, they, they’re playing festivals. They’re like, they’re the big boys on one of the stage and, uh, you know, bands that have had years of experience or kind of playing beneath them. but they were like the second of, uh, five band bill just before pandemic. you know, uh, oh, I’m

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: Uh, sorry. Uh, uh, SP spirit world. Uh, or spirit. Spirit box. Sorry.

Glen: Okay.

Tyson Boyd: there were another one that played March, 2019, and they were the first of four. and I, you know, typically one of the, sometimes the first [00:16:00] bands of a bill I don’t always see because that’s a really good time for me to slip out and eat a quick meal or something

Glen: Yeah,

Tyson Boyd: and come

Glen: absolutely.

Tyson Boyd: you get the doors open.

So I actually didn’t remember them performing exactly until we were filling out this paperwork, uh, during pandemic and, uh, I caught. I caught, um, you know, the poster and I remembered them of course, but the name just didn’t click with me. But they’ve been playing arenas and such. And then, I mean, you know, in the last 10 years we had the Band Ghost. They, uh, did a show at the Starlight Room, and they’re playing arenas and, you know, it’s, it’s kind of the natural progression. But, you know, uh, around 2019 as well, we had Orville Peck,

Glen: Hmm. Yep,

Tyson Boyd: and, uh, Starlight Half Room. And then, you know, few years later, he just was one of the headliners at Folk

Glen: yep.

Tyson Boyd: And

Glen: Yep.

Tyson Boyd: so, yeah, that’s kind of a pretty common evolution. And you don’t always know. Sometimes like, I feel like I, uh, I, I feel like I’ll, I’ll know. And sometimes it’s just me being a

Glen: Uh,

Tyson Boyd: fan and like,

Glen: I was gonna [00:17:00] say, I was gonna wonder if you were gonna finish that sentence of like, I feel like I should know because it’s funny, right? Because you, you’re, this is exactly it, Tyson, you’re like there all the time and you can list off these bands that started, you know, there and, and the Starlight Room’s not a small room.

So they obviously all started at even smaller venues before they were booking, you know, 500 people or whatever, you know what I mean? In a, in a Starlight room. So, so I think the funny thing, I actually thought about this yesterday for a second, which was, you know, I wonder if people assume that you would have, you should have developed the magic skill right now to predict who’s gonna be a star.

Like, you would, you know, you’d be, have like the back to the future like you would know. You know what’s gonna happen and you should be able to pick that out. ’cause you’ve seen so many, but none of us do. This is the point. None of us ever do really. Some, sometimes we have a hunch, but

Tyson Boyd: sometimes for sure, like I went down to South by Southwest, uh, I believe it was 2017. And Coter Wall was playing like one of the [00:18:00] sask music events. uh, he was one of the featured artists. And you know, like when you’re, uh, going down to those showcases and you’re one of the Canadians down to South by Southwest, you follow and support

Glen: yeah.

Tyson Boyd: province showcase.

Right. And I remember, uh, Coter was playing a really small showcase and uh, he just really stood out and, uh, I wanted to get him at the Starlight room. And eventually, you know, when we got back, I think it was four to six months or something, uh, he had a performance. And I still have this on my Facebook somewhere if you look back.

And I said, I’m like, you must come see this guy. It is very likely the last time that he will ever play a room of this

Glen: Mm. Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: turned out I was right on that one. He’s

Glen: There you go. If only,

Tyson Boyd: really popular. So.

Glen: if only there was some way to turn that into a profit. But they’re never, there’s no, there’s no gamble on that. There’s no, uh, Vegas odds on, uh, small indie acts busting out. Unfortunately, they put odds on everything else. I don’t know why they can’t put odds on, on small indie [00:19:00] acts busting out then, then we could roll the dice.

Tyson Boyd: the conversation a slight touch here right now. Um, because I mean, here’s one of the scary parts of our industry right now, and this is more, so less, less on the concert promoter side, but more on the Canadian, protecting our artists side is, uh, there, there’s, uh, labels and, uh, groups in the states that are using ai, uh, to scour the it, to try to get artists that are just starting to break out in streams.

And they’ll get alerted once, you know, one artist is starting to get a certain amount of streams. Um, so the whole more organic side of, you know, going to shows and seeing like, or hearing word of mouth, uh, about how this artist really is really good and they’re drawing audiences and whatnot, that’s starting to disappear.

And now, uh, some of these artists are getting scooped out and, uh, brought down stateside before we even get a chance to have them in any of

Glen: Oh wow. So

Tyson Boyd: uh.

Glen: the algorithm, they’re using the algorithm in a new way to. Basically just [00:20:00] detect and then it’s math for them, right? Like, um, the algorithm says this works this high a percentage of time, and they’ll, they’ll take their chances on it then.

Tyson Boyd: Yeah, for

Glen: interesting. Wow. I mean, that’s a real interesting twist again, that that’s not the AI side that’s being talked about, right?

Everyone’s just talking about AI music and those, those AI bands or artists and, and nobody’s talking about other aspects where that human element of curation. I’ve had this talk with a number of people on the podcast though, right? Is that, that that curation aspect, right? So we’re all like fully overwhelmed with the algorithm concept and how your Spotify wrapped is gonna show up and all of this kind of stuff has already kind of taken over.

but yeah, the curation aspect of music, and again, like essentially being a talent buyer, you are. You have to have a very strong 6 cent gut punch [00:21:00] feeling of, of how to curate a lineup of how to, you know, how to put people together about what the timing is about. Who is, who’s, who is the timing right? For, for me to bring in like, yeah, you’re, you’re not, you didn’t learn this, you didn’t learn this mathematically with a computer algorithm at all.

So that’s a, that’s a really big kinda challenging shift I bet. is that, is that, is that being talked about all over the place? Like I, you know, or is it just starting.

Tyson Boyd: it’s, it’s, it’s just starting, um. You know, you, you could kind of see some of, uh, maybe maybe some of the signs, I guess if you’re kind of paying attention to what’s happening here in Canada. But they’re starting to kind of, uh, move out some ar positions at major record labels and, you know, um, uh, some of those, there’s trying to consolidate the industry down in the states in which not, which, I mean here in North America, the states is kind of the driving force of our music industry.

Right. Uh, as far as I, I’m, I’m speaking strictly again for the [00:22:00] for-profit my world, I guess

Glen: Yeah. Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: so yeah, there’s, there’s some tell tale signs I guess. I mean, it’s, i I, I do believe it’s moved past the point of speculation, and I do think that this is kind of coming up at, at the forefront of conversation.

But I mean, like, here’s the thing is our, uh, our industry here in Canada is so small, um, and I find like a big. Problem that we’ve had with advocacy and whatnot, uh, for our industry, the biggest problem is there’s so few people. So we have so few voices, you

Glen: Mm

Tyson Boyd: like, uh, typically, you know, I’ve, I’ve been trying to find, uh, larger kind of, uh, parties to kind of join us as a power numbers type thing.

Uh, when we were trying to change some A GLD legislation, I was approaching, um, you know, uh, Alberta K Craft Brewers Association, um, or, you know, the cannabis associations and whatnot because they’re the ones who have a very big, uh, subscription base uh, they have a [00:23:00] lot of voices and they’re very organized. Um, and they all do have a mutual. Interest in supporting, uh, live music community and stuff like that. So it’s a pretty easy conversation. But, um, then it gets into all kinds of confusion, or sorry, I guess, uh, bureaucracy, I guess you could say. Whereas, you know, I, I, I, I, I didn’t really fully realize that, know, like Alberta Craft Brewers Association gets hung up sometimes, uh, by, you know, cannabis, because cannabis will be like, well, what about us?

And it’s the same vice versa with the brewers and whatnot, and then it kind of becomes a little bit of a standstill. And I think that that is kind of a issue, I guess, with government bureaucracy in general, as you could really get hung up on the, uh, what, what Aboutm

Glen: so let me put a little pin back on the, the talent buyer thing then that we sort of started with, with that, which is, um, the way you were describing it then, and the role of it.

I think it’s interesting as you started by saying, I’m both the Starlight [00:24:00] Room, which is a historic venue in Edmonton, and then concert works, which is, you know, a broader, you know, promotion company, right? So you’re looking at putting together tours and shows, not just locally and you’re not Yeah, you’re not sort of locked to the purposes of a venue.

You’re locked to the purpose of a, of a promotion like, uh. A tour, whatever version of a promotion cycle it’d be around, uh, what that is and in different places that you’ve obviously made good connections to get into different venues and all that stuff that you have to do. So, I think it’s an important thing to note then about what that job and what that role is, in, in people’s understanding is that, yeah, there’s a distinct difference, I would guess even though that there’s an overlap.

Because then if you’re, you’re running the Starlight Room, you’re running a local venue, that’s a venue that’s also gonna be used by talent buyers. So talent buyers have to work with talent buyers, right? To, to facilitate these shows and these tours that come through. [00:25:00] Um, and there’s, and that’s sort of the people I think probably already guessed, that’s kind of the web that gets woven in, in the music scene when it comes to touring, when it comes to beyond just.

Running local shows and you kind of have to have your ear to the ground on what’s good and happening and always coming up. ’cause it’s always changing and evolving the local scene. And, and that feeds into a lot. But then all this work with knowing who the people coming through are and what their background is.

And, and if you’re in a venue that’s not totally super niche, you know, and obviously moving towards concert works, you know, not a lot of the specific just promotion companies are niche, right? They’re a lot broader. So you have to have a pretty good understanding of a lot of genre and a lot of, uh, relevance and, and regional context and all that kind of stuff too.

So there’s a lot of layers to know and learn. [00:26:00] So I wanna, I wanna dig in for a minute to figure out how you learned that. ’cause this is what’s fascinating to me, Tyson, probably at this point in your life and career is that. I know you kind of went to school for this, I’m using air quotes. but most of the industry roles in this, in this industry feel apprenticed and feel learned on the job, all the nuances and layers and all the stuff we’re talking about.

So, uh, I’m kind of curious how you get to there. ’cause I think in every city, and everybody’s gonna run into a handful of Tysons who have sort of like, they’re the ones promoting and talent buying and, and, uh, running venues and, and some of them elevate up to, you know, larger goals and ambitions. Like, uh, running a, a independent company like Concert works.

So, let’s go all the way back to how you got into music because, we joke often that a lot of people in the industry are just people who. Being in a [00:27:00] band didn’t pan out, and then they move off into, into some other aspect or role. And I don’t actually, I don’t know if that’s the case for you. Like I’ve known you for quite a while and, uh, I think you and I go back to probably when you started, I don’t know if it was volunteering or working full or part-time at Alberta Music, the Provincial Association.

And I know that you came out of, I think the arts management program at McEwen to that. so I don’t, I don’t even remember what year that would be, that that’s how far back you and I go. Um, I know that anybody who would know you and meet you, know, that you have stayed so true to yourself. You clearly look like a guy who still listens to metal, always listened to metal.

and I, you like you distinctly wear it on your sleeve, which is awesome, but you aren’t locked in that niche of how you do your job. so I just, I picture, I wondered, was Tyson like a metalhead growing up and then he wanted to be in a, in a metal band? And, and then that progressed and then at some point you [00:28:00] started to see a career path.

So take me, take me all the way back to Baby Tyson’s still wearing the, the long jean shorts and the heavy metal shirts and the, and the ponytail. And tell me where it all, tell me where it all started.

Tyson Boyd: Okay. Uh, when I first met you, that was around 2009 and I was on a field placement from Arts and Cultural Management and, uh, trying to pursue a career at that time within music. when I first became a fan of music was a very long time ago. and I mean, I, you know, my, I started listening to my dad was playing CCR, stuff like that.

Like, uh, back then I could say that CCR sounded really heavy to me. That was before I discovered heavy music. I just liked, you know, the raspiness of John Fogerty

Glen: No, I got it. I got you.

Tyson Boyd: right?

Glen: Yep.

Tyson Boyd: that, that really appealed to me. And I was like, I don’t know, you know, 5, 6, 7, somewhere in there. And, um, you know, this was before internet. This was before, you know, I, I grew [00:29:00] up on a cattle ranch in Northern Alberta, so, you know, we had two channels and, uh, we

Glen: Country and western.

Tyson Boyd: Country and Western. Yeah. AM radio. And, uh, you know, it was actually really hard to become a music fan for, uh, you know, the first number of years.

I think it was like, you know, I, I was about six or seven or something. We got a satellite and uh, that’s when we first got much music and I discovered a channel on, uh, much music called Loud.

Glen: Yep.

Tyson Boyd: uh, that’s when they

Glen: I,

Tyson Boyd: playing heavy metal videos. And I would record them and, you know, go over to my friend’s house and we’d watch them, you know, religiously every week.

And then Beavis and Butthead came out. Uh, this is kind of a funny story because a lot of my people, or sorry, a lot of people my age will talk about how influential Beavis and Butthead was. Uh, and like, you gotta remember, this was against pre-internet.

Glen: yep.

Tyson Boyd: had a short half hour and they’re just watching clips of videos and, uh, they would [00:30:00] have the artist, uh, and you know, you’d write down the name of the artist and, you know, I, I taped all of those ones too.

And I, you could be watching a third of a song and become completely obsessed. And, uh, you know, once I wrote down these names, I personally had to go to, uh, you know, the local Radio shack. And, uh, they had a giant binder that you would flip between the pages and most often that’s how you ordered your music.

And it would take

Glen: Wow.

Tyson Boyd: five to six weeks to get one album. So, um, you know, between, between me and my friends, we would very carefully like pick out which albums they would order, and we then I would, and then we’d. Tape them and trade them and, you know, uh, read the liner notes from there. And, you know, the first couple of thank yous, uh, you know, you just had to assume that those were probably really good bands too.

So you’d get into that just literally by the thank yous.

Glen: Oh, I love that. I love that.

Tyson Boyd: yeah, and like, I mean, honestly it worked, it [00:31:00] really worked. Some of my favorite artists that I still listen to, to this day, uh. We’re from that. But, uh, I, I tell this story time and again, so people have heard it, but the first time that I ever saw The Disciples of Power was on much music, and it was, um, the song crisis.

And, you know, I was blown away. I was stopped in my tracks and I watched the whole video and then, you know, wrote it down. And I went to the Radio Shack as he, as one would do, and, uh, went to go order Disciples of Power and it wasn’t in the, in the binder. Right. And, uh, so that was, uh, you know, I, I, I didn’t know.

I’m like, okay, well this is

Glen: Yeah. Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: the, at the time it was, it was way different than Metallica or anything that I was listening to. And, uh, so, you know, uh, my family went to Grand Prairie one time, you know, that’s the big city at the time. And, uh, went to the record shop and I couldn’t find it there.

So that was odd. And then, you know, it took about eight or nine months, maybe even 10, I can’t even remember. [00:32:00] Uh, but we went to go visit my grandparents in uh, Edmonton. And that was, I, you know, I used to like to hit the pawn shops and record shops and I found, uh, disciples of Power at one of the record shops.

And that’s when I was reading the liner notes to figure out

Glen: Wow.

Tyson Boyd: and, you know, whatever. And once I found out they’re from Edmonton, that just like literally changed my world.

Glen: so let’s just pause for one second just to make sure everybody captures this picture, because first of all, what you’re describing sounds like 1978 like process, you know what I mean? Like original Columbia House recordings of where you’re ordering your music from somewhere, but it, you’re not that old.

So it’s not that long ago. It’s just an, you know, a decentralized, like you’re not in a major urban center experience. ’cause Radio Shack doesn’t even exist anymore. And, and I, and just, you kind of zoomed past it, but I was just thinking what kind of, like, think about the, the waiting and the, [00:33:00] and the anticipation and, and the searching and then finally finding, you know what I mean, that long to finally find this record that, that you.

Probably weren’t sure if you’d ever be able to find and get your hands on. And for music fans who know how exciting it is to get new music when they love it, I’m just like, that’s quite a process you just described. It’s unreal.

Tyson Boyd: honestly, I kind of miss it. Like, uh,

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: I, I, I just don’t know if I’ll ever intently listen to a record as much as I did back then.

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: waiting the anticipation to get it and just the whole ritual behind it, like it was,

Glen: That’s exactly the word. Yeah. I’m a little older than you Tyson, but um, and I grew up kind of in like church circles and, and it was being highly pushed to listen to like Christian Rock. And the irony was, is that like the late eighties, early nineties Christian Rock had a ridiculously thriving alternative indie scene.

It was, it was [00:34:00] very fun and cool and, um, very small right. And you couldn’t get a hold of that stuff. And then one record label came along called Tooth and Nail, that was putting out everything that was awesome. I think the biggest one was the punk band, MXPX, which kind of crossed over. Um, but I had to mail order all that shit.

Like I, you know what I mean? I had to, when I finally tore a thing off the back of one of the liner notes of one of those, you know, CDs or whatever, to, to find a way to like mail order all that stuff. And that wasn’t that, that’s the nineties. It’s not that long ago that you think the world changed where we, we had so many barriers to entry to, but now we look back and we’re like, that experience we’re so much richer for showing so much intent.

Right? Like, no wonder we become such huge fans because we had to put in so much work to get to it. Sorry, I derailed what you’re telling your story, but.

Tyson Boyd: Absolutely. And like I [00:35:00] remember, uh. know, some, like between me and my friends, it seemed like sometimes we’re maybe a little bit bigger of a fan of one band versus the other, because that was like the one band we we discovered, you know what I mean? And like,

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: but yeah, it was, it was, it was quite a process.

I quite miss it. I find, uh, may, maybe I won’t skip ahead to present. I’ll just keep working on

Glen: Yeah,

Tyson Boyd: direction towards there. But, so yeah, like I said, discovering disciples of power. Um, you know, right around that same time I started playing guitar and, uh, you know, I, I, I, uh, I was playing actually in the school band and I managed to get my teacher to allow me to play guitar while everyone was playing, you know, brass instruments and

Glen: yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: And, uh, there was one other fellow who played a bass then, and he had an s and nephew sticker on his bass. And again, I’d never heard of, uh. That band either, but I recognized, uh, s and Nephew because of James Hetfield from Metallica wearing an s and Nephew shirt in the[00:36:00]

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: Revisited album. And so that was another big moment, uh, where, you know, every, everything started becoming a lot closer, uh, to towards, you know, like realizing.

’cause I mean, like, when I first started watching some of these videos and everything, it was, you know, light years away. Everything was down, in, uh, areas that I probably would never see in my lifetime is what I was thinking. You know what I mean? Nothing was close and like, uh, I was surrounded by, farming and whatnot that was, you know, I’d never seen anyone play an instrument before, whatever. You know, and right around that same time, uh, I’d come across the smalls and, uh, that was one of the first bands that I got to see live and understand that, you know, bands did tour and like they did exist within your realm. And, uh, you know, they, they were a very identifiable band as well because at the time, uh, you know, uh, Doug used to wear, wear the Deer, uh, John

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: and

Glen: Yeah,

Tyson Boyd: and such.

And that was something that, you know, very [00:37:00] felt distinctly Albertan to me as well. But,

Glen: yeah. By realm, by realm you mean your own backyard,

Tyson Boyd: yes,

Glen: talking about bands and, and the, and the discovery that these bands actually are come out of my area, like they’re actually around me. That’s very revolutionary for people.

Tyson Boyd: time.

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: And like that’s when you start to realize, you know, that there is an identity that we have within, kind of within the province and Townsend, whichever. So that was, that was a really kind of, you know, big, big mark for me, I guess, uh, moving kind of ahead as a fan. know, there was other experiences, and I don’t want to get too wordy here, but, uh, um, you know, I had a friend that used to come, uh, and stay with his grandmother, uh, which was one quarter section over from our farm.

And, uh, he would come every summer, but he was from Ottawa. And, uh, we became friends over the years and every summer we’d spend a lot of time together. And he, one summer he came back with, uh, some music and he had a guitar. And, uh, you know, I first, that’s how I first kind of [00:38:00] started learning how to play. Um, but I went to Ottawa. one time to stay with him and his family. And he had started a band at the time, and I think I was probably 13 or 14. And, uh, they were dubbing, uh, cassette tapes, their, their first demo. And so we started recording cassette tapes and we were like photocopying the cover, cutting ’em out, folding it up, and, uh, going and selling these tapes for five bucks a piece and like riding our bikes and uh, selling them to everywhere.

And that was like a very big moment too, of when I first like started finding out about the DIY scene and, uh, at the time as well. This was really fascinating now, and I just ran into ’em, uh, here recently in Kelowna at. Canadian Country Music Awards, but Tom Green was on public

Glen: Oh,

Tyson Boyd: television

Glen: yep,

Tyson Boyd: Ottawa and he used to have skateboarding and he had the local bands on the show, and

Glen: yep.

Tyson Boyd: watch that.

And again, I, uh, started recording that I took it back to Alberta and me and my

Glen: Yep.

Tyson Boyd: were, [00:39:00] start watching that. But that was another big landmark for me, seeing, uh, local bands performing and then also getting to experience,

Glen: Hmm.

Tyson Boyd: my friend’s local band who’s dubbing tapes and watching them practice and then going on bikes and selling tapes and whatnot. So I guess those are the very formative years of me getting into music and understanding like how a local scene could work and whatnot. But still, I did not really think that, uh, I had any sort of a place in there aside from appreciating it and like supporting in any way possible that I could. So I finished school and I went as one does, I guess to the oil field. And I worked, uh, the oil field for a number of years and my free time, you know, was going and traveling and catching festivals and, you know, spending, uh, my money doing the things I wanted to do, which was festivals, live music and whatever. Um, and, uh, you know, I also, when I first moved to Edmonton, this was, I, I didn’t spend a whole lot of time here, but it was [00:40:00] early 2000 and I lived in a band house with friends who are still a band to this day. And, um. You know, I started watching, uh, you know, some, some of the venues in the halls and, uh, uh, shows that they were doing and started getting to know the local scene. And I wasn’t really, I, I got frustrated with playing guitar because I swear I’m tone deaf or something. So I always wanted a way to contribute and support the scene in some way that I could.

So I started drawing posters uh, photocopying posters and then going and hanging posters up. And, uh, you know, that was for me supporting my friends and supporting,

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: you know, the projects that they were doing. And that is quite simply probably my very first introduction into promoting shows was, uh. Doing the posters. And from from there, I continued to work. Um, you know, I I, I actually had it quite good in the oil field for a while where I was having trouble getting outta there because, uh, the money [00:41:00] was really good.

Glen: Yeah. Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: I, I, uh, in the summer times I was, you know, uh, working as a carpenter and whatnot.

And, uh, I was living at Calgary at the time, I, uh, uh, you know, this was, uh, maybe late 2006 or early 2007, it got so congested there that I wanted to get out and I, uh. And I just decided to pack up my stuff and I was gonna go live outta my truck for a while and go work these jobs and whatever.

And I was on my way to Whistler to, uh, uh, move a pipeline, uh, for, uh, they were just redeveloping a highway for the, uh, uh, Olympics at the time. And it was around Whistler. And, uh, I started, I stayed in Edmonton for a little bit and I got a job with a friend where I was framing houses and I had a really bad fall.

One morning I hit some ice and, uh, fell about, you know, from one floor to a sub-basement. And, um, I ended up blowing out a few, uh, discs in my vertebrae on, unfortunately. And that was a little [00:42:00] bit of a career ending injury at the time. Uh, it took about nine months or so for me to, uh, uh, kind of work through that.

And, at the time it was really unfortunate because I, I ended up working in a liquor store and I like. It was, it was a big eye-opener for me because I, you know, had a really good job and I was kind of working all over the place and making really good money. And then all of a sudden I was working at a liquor store and, uh, it was, I couldn’t, you know, I wasn’t able to lift more than 10 pounds or whatever, and it was just all completely new to me.

And I have to admit, I was very depressed. Um, and that’s when I started looking into, uh, you know, what I could do. Um. Outside of that, and I found a program which was Arts and Cultural Management at Grant McEwen. And that was, that was something I didn’t even know that it existed at that, at that point in time.

I did know a couple of friends that, uh, were working, uh, for promoters and, uh. You know, I started realizing like that, that, that is something that you could pursue. Um, and [00:43:00] I know it kind of sounds silly, but I just didn’t know. I, like, I, everything to me just seemed like it was down in Hollywood or, you know,

Glen: Yeah, a hundred percent.

Tyson Boyd: I, yeah, I never thought, I never really thought, so that kind of clicked in with me and I decided that I was gonna pursue that and I decided to start working at venues at the time because, uh, that’s really what I, basically all I did was work and then go spend time in venues. So I may as well work at a venue when I’m too broke to, know, afford to

Glen: Yep.

Tyson Boyd: own dime.

I may as well work there and catch the shows and whatever. So I was working in venues in the evening, uh, pawn shop, new City, uh, filthy, you know, some of those. Um, and then during school in the daytime. And then, uh, you know, I took the shorter end at the time of the program, but I did it over the course of two years and that’s when I started working at Alberta Music.

And, uh, then with Brett Fraser at, uh, Rexall. For my, uh, field placement now. Um, you were saying like, you don’t learn everything kind of within the classroom, within this [00:44:00] industry. And that’s kind of what I found at the time. I, I had discovered, because I was working for a not-for-profit arts, uh, association, but I was at, in the nighttime, I was promoting shows and, uh, I definitely understood there was a correlation of the two. Um, but what my, you know, uh, for a little while I was kind of keeping a balance of doing a nine to five daytime thing and then the evening working, uh, promoting shows and working in the venues, but I always kind of gravitated towards the venues and the underground

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: that. And that’s kind of what I wanted to kind of pursue.

And I, I think that that’s eventually, you know, um, I, I, I, I started getting in more involved, uh, with the pawn shop at the time and that’s when I first started a, a concert company of my own, um. And, you know, I started, I, I, I was fortunate enough to get a couple of people that, uh, gave me some responsibility with tours that they were booking through here. And [00:45:00] there were bands on major labels. There were bands that I was really into. And I took that really, really seriously at the time. And, uh, I also got hired as a production rep, uh, for Live Nation at the time. So, I was getting some training from some very notable people, you know, within the industry. That I have such a huge super respect for. And, um, I started learning the more formal process, I guess, of how they would expect shows to be done. And then I started applying that to the shows that I was doing, which was very much overkill, but I was, uh, trying to practice everything that I was kinda learning on, you know, a very professional setting and

Glen: Yeah. Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: more underground shows. And, uh, from there, uh, that, that just kind of helped, really helped me evolve, I guess. you know, learning the business end and the process in whichever, and applying it to something. ’cause I mean, you know, uh, music ultimately is a laborer of love and it’s a [00:46:00] passion. and it’s

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: to put it into the formalities of business, you know what I mean?

Uh, without, you know. Without taking the heart out of it, you know, it’s a fine balance.

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: but I mean, it’s also very important to be able to, uh, balance your books and not go outta budget. And like, um, you know, for a lot of people that I work with within the scene, they, uh, are very much, you know, they folks that worked in, uh, uh, underground music, hardcore metal, uh, punk and whatnot, I find, uh, became very strong. Um, when they kind of grow and develop and start working in other parts. you know, working in other genres and other parts of the industry and whatnot. And I think that’s quite simply because there wasn’t a lot of money to go around. So you have to become very good at working with money and

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: dollars and cents and whatnot because, you know,

Glen: How to be successful with no margin. Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: exactly. So I, I started learning that that was actually a pretty good, uh, strength [00:47:00] and, uh, yeah. Um, so that was about, that takes us to about 15 years ago. And, uh, I, uh, I, I I came across the partners that I, uh, have now with Concert Works and, uh, at the time, you know, they were, uh, part of Foundation concerts, uh, which was also Brent, Oliver and Steve

Glen: This is Steve.

Tyson Boyd: Yeah. And, uh, when Foundation, um, folded, Brent had moved to, uh, Winnipeg at the time. Uh, Steven moved along and, uh, my partners were still at the Starlight Room and, uh, they were working on some shows at the pawn shop and I could see that they were struggling a little bit. And I offered to help, um, kind of push these shows, uh, a little bit better.

And we just started kind of working from there and they decided to kind of, um. basically, I guess, uh, dissolved foundation at the time. And, uh, we put together a new brand and we kind of put that together, which is concert works. And so

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: [00:48:00] years later, that’s what we’re still working under. Um, at the time I was really based out of the pawn shop.

They were kind of, and working at the Starlight Room

Glen: Yeah,

Tyson Boyd: doing shows. But now obviously, uh, Starlight is kind of our full-time home base, but we do programming throughout many different venues throughout the province in Western Canada.

Glen: yeah. Well, that’s really amazing. That’s quite a, a journey to sort of like figuring a thing out. And I guess the cool part I, that I keep hearing in there without you saying it, is like you sort of like leaned into this idea, this thing you loved and thought I might as well start. With doing the part that I loved.

You loved going to shows, you were in the venue so much, you started to figure out how it worked. You started to see the Wizard behind the Veil, and then, um, you started to get in there and do what the Wizard does. But I guess the part that’s cool in there that I’m hearing Tyson, is that like, you know, like it also is a, it’s a, a part of the industry and a scene that kind [00:49:00] of welcomes you in, right?

It, it looks, you know, like if you want to pursue, I guess what I’m hearing is like, if you wanna pursue a thing that you love in an area, and like you said, the way you treated, you know, even your small hardcore shows with the professionalism that you were learning from these other shows and these opportunities you were given, you know that it’s like there’s open doors, like there’s availability for you to kind of step in, which is pretty awesome.

Um. I, I know that like you’re talking about the pawn shop, there’s a lot of like great venues and I think everybody, wherever they are right now, listening, you know, in their cities, like probably know, hopefully where the cool venues are. And also maybe know what the history of some of the venues were.

Right? Because even in Canada being, like you said, a small industry, you know, when the live music scene was more, I, I don’t wanna say just thriving ’cause that comes and goes in [00:50:00] every era, but it, you know, it was maybe a little more foundational, right? The touring scene was a little more foundation to the economy of music.

In Canada, there were iconic, longstanding venues in every city. Edmonton was lucky to have. Two iconic ones right in the Starlight Room, then Rev and Bronx before that, the, in what is now a deemed historical building in our, in our city. And, and, uh, the classic Sidetrack Cafe, which, you know, was so well known and had such a reputation.

And I’ve talked about this on the podcast, like they’re across the country. They were from Vancouver’s Railway Club and such, right across to, you know, the Dakota Tavern and, and a whole bunch of these ones in Toronto and the Horseshoe, which is still out there and, and El MCC combo and, you know, anyhow, you can move along.

but the pawn shop, there were some that were just like, they were, they had awesome runs, I guess is the best way to put it. Right. Um, and I’m not [00:51:00] gonna spend a bunch of time, it would be easy with the guy who’s. Growing up and, and had his hands in a lot of these venues to just kind of wax poetic and mourn the glory days.

Uh, so we won’t do that. But I, I will say like the pawn shop was really well run. It kind of had, you know, that kind of chance. And it was in a space that had been a couple of things right on White Ave, which of course has always been a iconic street for, for Edmonton and for people who visit Edmonton. Um, and so that kind of had a lot of history there.

that is a touch point for you and I actually that I’m saying Pawn Shop. the Wheat Pools farewell was we chose the pawn shop for our venue and you, uh, you treated us like gold. Uh, I’ve always remembered it. maybe, I mean never, I never had a reason not to like you or not respect you before that ever.

I had no reason. I’m not saying this that way. But probably that moment in time, Tyson is like when I gained like a real professional and [00:52:00] personal respect for you. Um, we weren’t, we were never an entitled band. I’m proud of that. Uh, we didn’t ever ask for much, but you really kind of rolled it out for us and, and treated that moment with a lot of respect that we were trying to have a real strong bookend, uh, for our fans.

And, and, um, anyhow, that was a pretty amazing time. And that was at the pawn shop, so that was 2012. and you were a big part of that, which I always really appreciate. so here’s what I’m maybe hoping we can talk to since you kinda landed at the, this is where my career kind of has now blurred into the last 15 years, that this is kind of where the most bulk of my work in my career has been.

Is, is, uh, I, I’ve said this a lot, I think. People have asked me before, like, I think people assume that, ’cause the, the artist is, is being a very loud voice right now about revenue streams and the challenges of, digital and the Spotify and those platforms [00:53:00] and, and, uh, and music rights and, and, and rightly so.

So that kind of gets the loudest voice. but I’ve always said of all of the hats I probably wouldn’t professionally wear in the music scene, it’s the concert promoter, um, the talent buyer. Because you’re, you guys are running risk on every single show, but like very few shows do you probably put on in the, in the grand scheme of things that you feel like, well, this one’s a guarantee.

This one’s in the bag, we’re gonna do well on this one, and. You kind of have to have those because you know how many you’re not gonna do well on. and I don’t know if everybody understands that, right? Is that your job essentially is, uh, you’re feeding and building a music industry by putting on shows that you’re gonna know that you lose money on.

You’re gonna put local bans on bills that you [00:54:00] know are not gonna bring enough of their friends out to fill out that little 20% that you would really like them to, to kind of put the show up to margin. but you do it anyhow, you know what I mean? Or you maybe have a good sense or you have a good relationship with the other promoter or agent who wants you to put this band on the bill or, or put them on, you know, on a Wednesday night.

’cause they need to fill a spot on their tour. You’re not gonna make money. And you have to work hard to have the shows that make money to cover those losses and keep the cycle going and you contribute to the scene so much. I think it’s the hardest riskiest job in it all. So I, I’m wondering if you can just tell me, ‘ cause you know it obviously so well, I wonder if you can just tell me how that very fact has evolved in this 15 years that you’ve kind of been like hips deep in, in, in doing this, like in, in a lot of different levels.

Tyson Boyd: well, it is calculated gambling, essentially, as you mentioned. Uh, there’s a lot of risk. [00:55:00] Um, I’m, I’m not gonna lie, I personally don’t know if I would be able to sleep at night if I was, uh, if I was doing this profession under somebody else. You know what I mean? If I was, if I was responsible for, um, you know, a company and the financial success, uh, that would really stress me out.

It’s, it really works well for me that, you know, I’m only answering to, uh, my own self and, uh, you know, my partners who we all have kind of the same, um. You know, thought, thought of the matter. ’cause there, there’s a lot of things that I do that don’t make sense, but I mean, uh, it it, it kind of comes with part of why I love music and the business and

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: then, you know, there’s a number of, shows that we do with this younger scene and it’s like, you know, when you’re getting 80% of the audience and their kids, you’re not making money off of them. Uh, but I mean, it’s, it’s, for me, it’s, you know, uh, it’s building a future generation. It’s [00:56:00] part of building the scene, it’s part of passing it on and it’s ping, you know, um, you know, it, it, it is me remembering.

When I was a kid and getting excited about music and everything that I was influenced in, um, you know, that, that’s got a big amount of value to me too. But I mean, financially that’s not something that makes sense. But I think that it is a big part of the contribution and, I mean, you know, maybe getting these kids into music today pays off in the future.

Maybe it doesn’t or whichever, but I still find it exciting and I mean, uh, that’s kind of, I guess, uh, uh, the alternative. But I mean,

Glen: It’s a passion and a business, right? You already described that it’s both a passion project, you, because we all know that if you aren’t passionate about it, you’ll burn out on it and you’re not gonna make enough to, to keep you going and happy or, or sustain things. Um, but you can’t do it at zero. So it becomes a business, and you’re always weighing those [00:57:00] scales against each other, right?

Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I guess that’s the Cadbury secret as of right now. I mean, uh, for years and years and years, you know, our, uh, our whole for-profit industry, say has been reliant on alcohol sales, and I mean. For a number of years, it’s worked, uh, up until, you know, more recently it just isn’t.

And, uh, it’s become an interesting conversation, I guess, because many people will, uh, argue how do you determine artistic merits on, you know, uh, alcohol consumption? And I say, well, that’s the tools that we, that’s what we’re given here right now. Um, so I don’t necessarily agree with it. I’m always trying to figure out the ways that we move past it, but like you said, we can’t start taking money off of the tickets because that’s how we pay the artists. Um, you know, like, uh, the venue and touring infrastructure, it’s all symbiotic with, uh, touring artists, right? Um, so.

Glen: can you unpack this for us a little bit? Like when you say that, like the [00:58:00] alcohol sales part isn’t what it used to be. And I, the real quick picture to paint is like whether you’re walking into your local Celtic pub, like we have o Burns on white, for example, that’s been here for a long time and I cut my teeth playing in there and they would have anything from open stages to bands on some nights.

And and yeah, like the amount of bars I went in, I played that, you know, there was no guarantee when I was up and coming and they would, they were paying me out of the cash in the till from drink sales and you know, and so like so many venues besides, ’cause there’s the version of a venue that’s like the concert venue, right?

Like that’s what it’s known as. But then there’s so many venues which are bars and I think everybody recognizes like, that’s sort of been the history of all this stuff. And then, but it’s the same even all the way up to booking. You know, all the way up to the arena and all that. Like, you know, the amount that they expect to take in on the sales of, of drink and [00:59:00] concessions and just people being present and what they do while they watch music.

And, so I’m just wondering when you say that it’s not the same, I’m like, what shifted? Was it, like, is this government legislation as to how that factors in? Is it literally social and societal changes about consumption and, and what happens at venues? What, what shifted?

Tyson Boyd: Uh, well, there’s a number of things actually. part of it is kind of government and, uh, you know, uh, oh, what was it? 2016? I don’t know if you remember. We lost a lot of venues. Uh.

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: Calgary that year, and I believe Edmonton, it was about somewhere between 20 14, 20 15. And a lot of it was, um, you know, just in, I mean, there, there was a little bit of a shift, sorry, I’m, I’m thinking out loud here at the timeframe.

Glen: all good. It’s all good.

Tyson Boyd: 20 14 I think it was, you know, for a long time our dollar was pretty on par with the US

Glen: Mm-hmm.[01:00:00]

Tyson Boyd: in 2014 that took a shift and a lot of our bans and tours and everything are paid on US currency. Right.

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: uh, at the time as well, we also had, uh, I think two increases, maybe three. It was, it’s hard of taxes on alcohol. As well at the same very time, you know, minimum wage, uh, went up at the same time and that just became a, a big challenge with all three things happening at once.

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: uh, within a very short time, we lost a lot of businesses. now, um. You know, that we always kind of adapt from those times, but I mean, sometimes it’s really hard to steer a ship. Uh, you know, when often you’re planning eight to 10 months, even a year in advance or something, a lot of plans are already in place, so it’s hard to adapt quick. Uh, but you always kind of adapt. But through the years when you kind of start getting back on your feet and you’re making this balance and, you know, starting to make some, uh, decisions, like again, we, we, 2017, [01:01:00] we, uh, decided to take over the Starlight room. Uh, we started changing the room to make it work as far as having the three stages and we could scale it and kind of make it work that where we could do, uh, multiple programming, um, in order to kind of. Adapt and kind of keep busy and have that revenue coming in and whichever, uh, but then we had a hard stop with pandemic. And, uh, from that time, obviously there’s a whole lot of mounting debts and everything, but I, I mean, um, people’s habits did change. Uh, uh, you know, social, uh, settings have changed. A lot of people have kind of moved a little bit more, uh, online, maybe become a little bit more introverted. Um, you know, just technology in general has shifted.

Socializing, consumption in general. Uh, people, you know, are for varying reasons are just consuming, uh, less alcohol, which I don’t think is a problem whatsoever, except when your industry, which happens to be the arts, is dependent on it, then it becomes [01:02:00] a little bit of an eye raiser.

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: but um, yeah, it is just kind of trying to shift and move around that boat, like when you’re so deeply rooted in it.

It’s kind, know, the. The question like, I mean, it, it’s, it’s, the question on everybody’s mind, I guess right now is how, how do we move past this? and I mean, we, we’ve, as we continue to lose venues, we continue to lose the most valuable resource, which is the human resource. Um, and it’s just, you know, our voices become less and less.

And, uh,

Glen: Yeah.

Tyson Boyd: just like every area of industry, uh, globally right now, it, it allows for a lot of these bigger entities to come in and kind of, uh, kind of dominate the situation. And then, I mean, we start to lose a lot of the grassroots kind of potential, which is our smaller venues and such.

Glen: Yeah. Which is, you know, and I get that the people who are, like you said, like you start to get more conglomerates, you know, forming like in a lot of industry, not just music industry. You see that happen, you see it down. Even with, I [01:03:00] you surprised recently to find out in the states that ‘ cause everything’s so private, like hospital conglomerates, like people are, companies are buying up hospitals and just owning all the hospitals and then being able to dictate healthcare in an entire region.

I, I guess so it happens in a lot of places and ways. but you know, while they’re the ones getting the lion’s share of the profit, then as we would assume. Yeah, you just kinda have to feel like, you know, if you, if, if, if the river’s drying up upstream, you know what I mean, your, your waterfall’s gonna disappear eventually, and you would hope that those would be the people that would be concerned and, and wanna do something about, keeping that, that flow happening.

so I don’t know whether, in your opinion, there are people playing it from, you know, at, in the, in the big boys game, uh, so to speak, you know, the, the, the large companies, like, whether they’re trying to actively work on the grassroots and, and the [01:04:00] feeder system, I guess, of how we develop, you know, the future talent and the future performers and, and artists that people want to pay money to see and interact with.

Do you feel like they’re a part of the conversation and part of the effort and solution and advocacy, or, or do you feel. There is a disconnect.

Tyson Boyd: Uh, that’s a tough question for me because I am an optimist and I’m constantly proven wrong. So, um,

Glen: I don’t mind an optimistic answer. It’s, it’s completely allowed Tyson, believe it or not, in our world today. You can actually give me a, an optimistic, positive answer. I don’t mind.

Tyson Boyd: well, I just refuse to believe that, uh, you know, that. You know, it, it, we may be taking some licks right now, but at the end of the day, um, you know, people are gonna look and see where the source of, uh, you know, the talent is coming from. And, you know, there, there’s a lot of people, uh, you know, in these bigger conglomerates, they’re all in major centers that are not sitting anywhere [01:05:00] in the prairies like we are here. Um, you know, it, it, it, it seems to me like it’s just the most assessment is to look at that and say like, oh, well, you know, we do need these smaller entities to kind of develop some of these talents, um, in order to feed the machine. Right? Like it’s, uh, it, it, like, I mean, again, lot of the bigger conglomerates already have a lot of the data in front of them to where they can make really good decisions in order to pick like these artists to fill these larger rooms. Uh, why would they want to take a chance on all the, all the artists that, you know, we are, where we’re, you know, we’re, we’re rolling. Uh, the dice quite often with a lot of folks that were kind of programming and whatnot, and like, um, I just don’t understand, uh, you know, what, why a large entity would want to start getting into talent development when it’s just so, it’s, there’s, there’s no money to be made, right?

And like these companies are made for making money. You know what I’m saying? [01:06:00] Um,

Glen: would think that the only, the only thread that you can connect those two with is the same way that record labels were always built for probably the first 30 years of their existence on who had the best ar, like a and r, like, right. Because it, it only makes sense if they have their claws in the people they’re developing.

You know, I’m using a, a, not a negative metaphor by that, but you know, I, I always remember thinking, when I finally figured out how all this works, I’m like, oh, so they just made $10 million off Justin Timberlake and they’re spending nine of it trying to find the next Justin Timberlake. Right? That’s what they were doing by going and trying to find all this.

Kid Disney talent and bring them and put them on these little circuits and tour anyhow. And I realized like, this is how the machine works, right? They need to make all that money and then they need to spend it all trying to find another one because that’s how they understand to keep the [01:07:00] success and the stuff rolling.

So it only to me works if, but that worked in a and r and talent development, you’re right, it doesn’t really work in, in talent buying and concert promotion and, and, and stuff. Like, they aren’t able to get their hooks into that on an artist the same way. I mean, until the Famous 360 deal came along and, and companies were trying to be a part of everything, uh, on every level.

But, yeah, I mean those are really good points, uh, about where we’re at with this. I mean, I’ve often, well, you sort of, your optimism is great by the way. Um. My optimism and it, because I tend to be an optimist as well, has been that when you look back in history everywhere that there seems like there’s scarcity and famine, uh, we tend to breed the best artists and the best rock and roll comes out of places, uh, and then the industry clamors to run over and try to claim it and own it, right?

Because, they always peak and then they, [01:08:00] they sort of live on a, a veneer of, of whatever they’re in for a while and then they have to, you know, deep down that they’re running and looking for the next big thing. And it always happens in the place that they sort of abandoned. I feel like, um, you know, whether the scene that comes out of Montreal or the scene that came outta Seattle and then the scene that came out of like Liverpool or that that came out of Dublin or, history just kind of tells us that it’s gonna cycle its way around anyhow.

Um, so we just have to do everything we can to be the next, um. The next, you know, scene that, that blows up out of scarcity maybe, but,

Tyson Boyd: Yeah,

Glen: talking about the,

Tyson Boyd: too.

Glen: yeah, and talking about the cycles. I, I mean, I grew up in the eighties when, like the way you described everything you saw on the TV and stuff right.

Was like far away. And it was like not close. And it was huge. And, and the gap between thinking that me and in Western Canada to go from learning my guitar, that I had to jump straight to being ready for much music or [01:09:00] MTV was way too big of a gap to, to consider. But that’s all it looked like. And then all the concerts were all like arenas, right?

Like, um, there wasn’t a lot of like in my exposure, like the, all the middle, you know, the, the middle, the professional middle class, um, of music and, and then in the nineties kind of, I. Diffused all of that. And the, and the grunge and the electronic scenes and all that kinda stuff became so DIY and then all of a sudden, all the attention and focus came back to this like, middle class of, of music that, uh, thrived.

And and then I feel like right now we’re back to concerts. All like the arena, the $350 ticket for somebody who has one hit is baffling to me. Do you know what I mean? Like, I’m now the person of the old guy who’s like, I can’t compute that. My daughter has no problem, right. Going and, and paying for this, this ticket.

And, and, and I, I, I have like, somebody [01:10:00] has to really sell me hard to spend 50 bucks on a. A show ticket. And I love this stuff, like I’ve spent my whole life in it. But so that sort of cycle and the, you know, that plays into what we were talking about, I guess in my mind is why I bring that up is, is like we’re in this cycle where yeah, these conglomerates who, you know, they can put up the, the check for all of these bands to go on an arena tour.

And, and that’s where consumers seem to be fine with spending their money. And it makes it hard to answer the question, how do we build grassroots if, if the consumer seems fine with doing that, right? So how do you convince the consumer this is a good idea, you should come out to the local show. Well, you’re gonna see a band and I’ve heard people try to literally pitch this.

You’re gonna see a band that’s gonna be famous in five years. Well. I don’t think anybody believes us when we say that. They just wanna know why they should, you know, come to this show. do you feel like you’re in that battle? Is that a regular sort of [01:11:00] battle these days or is it not? The thing

Tyson Boyd: Yeah. No, it’s, it’s, it’s a

Glen: I

Tyson Boyd: thing. Um, I mean there, I, I do see that all the time. People that are comparing, you know, the cost of a ticket at the arena when they could go see 10 to 15 shows or something that are locally based and whatever. I fall in that category mainly because I, I. I like more underground stuff, and I do like the intimacy of, uh, shows.

It takes, you know, it, it’s gotta be a big production or a huge artist that I really wanna see to go to an arena or a stadium. you know, I, I just don’t like the environment as much. If, if something feels like very far away, I kind of lose interest. Um, I like the upfront and right in your face type

Glen: Oh man.

Tyson Boyd: experience.

Right. And, um, know, I, I’m, I’m, I’m, I am seeing like a lot of, uh, younger kids that I’ve been working with anyways. Um, there’s a little bit of, uh, you know, resistance I guess to, um. [01:12:00] You know, being on social media or using cameras and whatnot, you know, we have a group of kids that are between 16 and 18 that are more interested in, uh, hand drawn posters and doing it like how we did in the nineties.

Glen: Yeah. That’s cool.

Tyson Boyd: making cassettes and, you know, in between shows they’re, you know, I, I’ve even seen kids playing hacky sack out front and whatnot, right? Like there’s,

Glen: Wow. Wow.

Tyson Boyd: And that, that almost seems to be kind of the new resistance, I guess, is, uh, getting back to kind of the analog basics, I guess.

Uh, you know, not being so tied into social media and not just getting your selfie moment, but being part of an experience, part of a community and like, that, that part is, uh, that, that’s, that to me is never, hopefully, is never gonna go away. And I’m hoping that this kind of just continues to expand. ’cause right now, I, I watch week after week when we started, you know, we just got our, um. Class B theater license through pandemic. And that’s when we’ve been able to do more all ages shows. And you know, [01:13:00] I remember, uh, the first time when we only had a couple of kids show up and then a few more kids, and now we have like full rooms of kids and it’s,

Glen: Hmm.

Tyson Boyd: like, you could just see the new ones that come through and it, you could tell it feels like this secret that they just discovered.

And like, that’s kind of the magic of why, you know, uh, I think that we all kind of get into the local scenes and whatnot.

Glen: Oh man, a hundred percent. That is the magic man. Like, that’s gotta feel, that’s gotta feel really good.

Tyson Boyd: for

Glen: Like

Tyson Boyd: sure.

Glen: to see and to feel and experience all of that. Like, like that’s awesome. So I, I recently got to kind of have that experience be, especially ’cause it was out of my pocket, which is, um, I worked with Jessica Lemon on her music day in Canada, uh, promotion.

and so I hosted the event in Edmonton here at Black Bar. And I had never been to Black Bar, you know, and so there’s not a stage at Black Bar they set up on a floor. And so it’s like four metal bands and they’re all setting up and [01:14:00] that whole ligament roll. And then I just realized like they’re just pushing tables back, you know?

And, and we were starting early at seven 30 and I’m like, who’s coming to a metal show? Uh, you know, on a Friday night or a Saturday night, which, or Saturday night at at seven 30. Um, and somehow, you know, seven 30, all these like young people flood in the door and they just go and they stand. Like, just the way you’re describing, they just went and stood right in front of it.

Which is just funny because like, it’s metal shows, so it’s like nobody’s singing to you. Like they’re gonna scream at you and you’re gonna go, it is just so perfect. It’s so rock and roll. It’s like, I’m gonna go stand two feet in front of the guy that’s screaming at me and I’m gonna really feel it and I could just watch.

Anyhow. So it was a great experience for me. I’m glad that I got put on a metal show like that. It just reminded me. It just reminded me of all of those things that you just described when you’re watching these kids, which is like, they wanna [01:15:00] feel it, right? Like, why would you abandon the social media aspect and not include it in your process of how you’re experiencing and, and doing this?

It’s because that’s void of, of real tactile interaction and feeling and, and feeling like, I made something and I did this, and somebody else participated and someone else felt what I was feeling and that’s what inspires me to do this. yeah, I got to experience that. So I’ll, I’ll, I’ll use that as a.

I’ll use that as a plug. ’cause I know, you know, Jessica, that maybe the Starlight Room needs to be in 2020 six’s Music Day in Canada,

Tyson Boyd: Yeah.

Glen: or something. I don’t know. I’m just throwing that out there. well, I mean, you, I’ve taken up a bunch of your time tonight, but I do, I do wanna have one last quick sort of conversation about kinda your role in, in music.

’cause I don’t wanna ask the typical question of like, what’s wrong with the live music thing and it just feels like it’s keep dying. And we’ve kind of touched on that in [01:16:00] different ways, um, already, but I love that you just talked again about the inspiration of seeing young people and how that feeds your optimism in that way too.

And you’ve had. A career as it just turned out. Like I think is maybe if I’m interpreting how you described it, like you never saw this coming when, when you were, you know, working rigs or, or construction jobs and, and, and moving around and stuff, uh, that this would’ve been your career and being a part of the whole music scene.

’cause I talk about the idea of chasing the dream a lot, right? So a lot of people, like I joked at the start end up in the industry ’cause they were chasing the dream. And then the dream is always the naive, youthful, I’m gonna be the rock star, uh, the one in front of all this, the center of it all. And yet they’re like this one little piece at the top of an iceberg of what usually makes this whole thing go.

Um, so I [01:17:00] guess my question, my last question for you, Tyson, is, what, what is the, what is the thing about being around. Live music ‘ what is the thing about it that’s gonna continue to make a difference in our community? Right.

Because it is easy to talk to individuals. ’cause we all interact with music our own way. It’s a little subjective, but you’ve been involved in community stuff and community concept and building and I’m just really curious if you can speak to what it is about live music and having venues for them, you know, that actually does something for the community.

Like what have you seen? What are you hoping for?

Tyson Boyd: Oh. Um, you know, like quite simply, I think, uh, just thinking about back to my own experience, um, you know, again, pre-internet, but leading into today, it’s really not that different is going and finding [01:18:00] an artist you love and being able to find. Uh, the, the people that love that artist as much as you do, you find your community.

That’s like probably one of the biggest, most important parts of going and enjoying live music on top of just being a music fan. you know, and from there I think that there’s just so many different, uh, like mu music fans come from all varying walks of life, you know what I mean? So you get all kinds of, uh, you know, interest, uh, you know, like, sorry, I’m trailing here.

Glen: It’s all good.

Tyson Boyd: but like, uh, to be able to find like, you know, certain folks who maybe run businesses down south, whether it be, you know, um, You know, a retail business or a fanzine or something, and you start kind of, you, you build your community around the interest of when you first kind of go to a show. And I think that that’s a really amazing thing. I think that that is what makes like certain [01:19:00] cities and scenes really unique. I think that Edmonton really kind of is Edmonton’s a very blue collar city, but we’re kind of expanding and growing and uh, we’re kind of a really, um, affordable place to live right now. So we have a lot of people that are coming into the city moving here and trying to find that community.

Glen: Hmm,

Tyson Boyd: a lot of artists and musicians kind of also gravitate towards really cheap, affordable places to live and together you

Glen: a good point. That’s a good point.

Tyson Boyd: You really kind of start to build like a really unique scene that kind of works in, uh, in, in just varying capacities, you know what I mean? Like, uh, I’m watching a lot of people move in from Vancouver and Toronto and you know, we have a bit of a blossoming tech scene and whatnot, and a lot of these folks gravitate towards arts and culture. Um, so, you know, like as far as like Starlight Room, just celebrating 35 years, it seems like, know, that that’s a very big landmark as far as venues go, but we have more people that are just experiencing it for [01:20:00] the first time ever and,

Glen: Hmm.

Tyson Boyd: you know, they’re starting to kind of find their people. So it’s, it’s kind of serving the same purpose that it did from day one.

And

Glen: Yeah,

Tyson Boyd: if anything, um, you know, as we kind of try to rebuild our whole city and social structure and everything else, and. Kind of weirdly complicated times. It’s a really comforting spot to be.

Glen: that’s a. Yeah, I love that. The, the, the building of the community and be able to, more importantly the term they used, like finding your community. Like, because I think back the minute you say that, I think about even the way you were just describing about the kids, right? And you’re starting to see the kids, uh, show up because that’s when historically we all sort of relate to that of, and especially people in more niche like music fans.

Like, you know, so you’re growing up and you were into like metal. Yeah. The first time you go to a metal show and all of a sudden you’re like, it’s not just me. Or you come in from like you said, the country or the, the rural areas of Alberta and now you come to [01:21:00] university and then you go to a show. I can imagine what that experience would be like when you felt like I was the only one into, you know, this kind of stuff.

You know, when I was here, um, like I remember. I, I joke with people all the time ’cause I was in, you know, Regina Saskatchewan at the end of the eighties in high school and everyone was wearing like the Guns N Roses or Quiet Riot, you know, black shirt with uh, white half sleeves, um, long hair and in, in the guitar class trying to, you know, play Sweet Child of mine on a classical guitar.

And, and I was like in the closet ’cause I didn’t wanna get beat up, like listening, you know, to Unforgettable Fire by u you know, U2 and finding peripheral bands that I had to, again, I had to go search, like we talked about it before. I’d find this band called The Alarm and all these other ones like, but I had to, you know, when I went to college, I found people who were into that.

Music and the, the [01:22:00] finding your community has always been so intimately tied to music. Right. Which I think is really cool. But I guess what I wanted to say by that is that you’re talking about people in their adult stages, people moving here for different reasons, economical changes that happen in communities and why people would come to Edmonton or why may they come to another city, and, and or how communities grow in those cities that, yeah.

The, the music part can be so intimately tied to it. I think about how I’m watching like our folk festivals change and that has had such a huge community aspect. I mean, generally because, you know, air quotes folkies have had, you know, stereotypes of being granola and organic and love all this sort of like community garden kind of stuff.

Uh, that’s a really easy cliche to hang on them. But, But I’m seeing that change, right? I’m seeing the, the amount of young people at, at Folk Fest, like even this last year I [01:23:00] couldn’t even believe. it was just noticeable to me. And, but that’s a community. People really feel comfortable like latching onto and getting into.

And when cities provide something as cool as a really big folk fest, it’s got a big, big impact as well. It’s bigger than just maybe sometimes the venues as we’re talking about them. But, yeah, and I mean, it’s really easy to say to people, you know, get off your couch or get off the, the phone and go and support it.

but I guess in as many different kind and encouraging ways, we have to keep, keep that rhetoric, you know, at the forefront and, and try to keep encouraging people to do that. Uh, especially knowing that it has a bigger impact. Uh, I think in just. People finding their place, which is really cool. But Yeah.

Well, I mean, this has been a, a really fun conversation. Tyson, fun for me, always. I, I say this a lot, uh, selfishly, I get to take [01:24:00] people that I, I know from one level to another and then kind of dig into a part of their life that maybe I didn’t know. And then I get the big picture and it’s fun, uh, fun for me.

So I appreciate you giving your time and talking to me about your, the way you landed in your career and, and you’re wearing, you know, a, a a couple of hats in a career that a lot of people do in every city across the country in North America. And, um, and I, I think it’s cool to sort of take a look at what that really looks like.

So I appreciate you pulling the veil back a bit. And, um, it is always, and I sort of alluded to, You haven’t, you haven’t spoiled your sparkling reputation that, that you, that you earned with me, you know, in 2012, uh, at the pawn shop. And, um, I’ll just say like there’s a, a lot of people who, you know, the real, where I, there’s a lot of people in the part of the business where the money really matters, which is where you sit, [01:25:00] that, you know, do a lot of things to spoil reputations for people in this business.

And so the fact that you’ve spent this long along just being known as a really nice guy and a really great guy to work with, and I’ve never heard a single bad word ever uttered about you or the people you work with and the work you’re doing, says an awful lot about it. So, uh, thanks for everything you’ve contributed to my community, ’cause we’re both Edmonton based and, um.

I think you’re pretty awesome and I appreciate you taking the time with me here, bud.

Tyson Boyd: Oh, thanks so much for having me. I appreciate you as well.

Glen: Yeah, it’s cool Bud. hopefully maybe see you on the floor of Starlight at a cool show really soon. Okay.

Tyson Boyd: Okay, take care.

Glen: Okay.

 

I think the quote of the episode needs to be It’s okay not to feel okay. No, it’s okay to feel rage at your own podcast. Oh, we’re just in the corner. It’s so far away. I think they [01:26:00] can hear. I can’t sip my tea during this. You what? No, you shouldn’t sip your tea. Well, I just did. Well, I put the microphone away.

Well then, we’ll, I don’t know. We’ll see how I deal with it. Maybe it’s asmr. Maybe some people will like that. Maybe. Okay. You’re gonna have to hold your microphone closer ’cause you’re feeling sick, but then don’t have these big bursts where you all of a sudden talk in your normal bursty voice. Is that fair to say?

I don’t sound sick. Yeah, you do a little. Oh, that’s rude. But okay. Um, okay. I’ll go extra close and give you my sick. No, don’t do that because I can’t edit it that easily like that. Okay. Okay. Hi. Welcome to episode 29 of almost famous enough post fame, almost famous enough post fame. Um, today is talking a little bit about the episode with Tyson Boyd.

So I decided to veer off. I’ve done this a couple times this season ’cause I, I didn’t wanna be topical. And, [01:27:00] but I did have, uh, my friend Jen Fritz on the publicist, and I did ask a lot of questions specific to that role in the industry. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. And today’s, like, this conversation with Tyson was clearly, uh, a lot just centered around his work and what it meant.

And, um, so it was a little more Yeah. Specific to that kind of part. Of his industry and world. So, um, local legend. Local legend. You know, here, here’s the thing, he’s like. Such a nice guy. Like, I don’t know, uh, yeah, he just seems like always such a great guy. I didn’t get to a couple things I wanted to ask him about.

Hmm. Um, I did sort of want to ask him about, ’cause he, he gave his story. Yeah. And his sort of timeline thing and he kind of caught up to where I knew him and he kind of like gave his background right up to only like 15 years ago. And then [01:28:00] basically just made the assumption, I’ve been doing this for the last 15 years.

And I’m like, well, there’s a lot. Inside of that 15 years. Yeah. You know what I mean? So for example, like I touched base with him when he was, you know, just kinda running venues. Mm-hmm. And the pawn shop on Wade Ave. And where our, our band had their farewell show. Yeah. When we finished. And um, and it wasn’t long after that that I think him and his partner, like his wife, um.

Started that bar that’s called Tavern on White. Oh yeah. And did the whole renos and stuff. So I wanted to confirm that with him, and I was gonna get to that part because I mean, they made a go of that for a while and then finally like sold it and got out of it. And that’s a hard business mm-hmm. To be in as well.

And you know, like I think having a career so often, especially one that says kinda risky as that line of work. Mm-hmm.

. Uh, he obviously has high risk tolerance like starting a restaurant. Yeah. [01:29:00] Um, high risk tolerance for sure. And you’re gonna have some like take some big swings in your hair, can have some big failures. And I kind of wanted to hear what sort of ask him like what happened with the barn?

Does that he consider that sort of like. You know, a miss instead of a hit, or, you know, other things that might have been, you know, things he really went after, whether it be like a big show that he tried to book or things like that. I wanted to kind of cover some of the highs and lows and we didn’t get to necessarily get to that, but he’s so upbeat.

Um, that’s okay. But I’ve, I enjoyed his outlook and obviously it made me sort of rewrite where I thought. The, even the title and the theme Mm. Of the episode was going, because I just couldn’t get off the way. He just answered that one question by saying, well, I’m an optimist. And I was like, man, that’s just, he just underlined Yeah.

Everything, yeah. About, about who he is. Like if I was to stop and instead say, what’s the through line of your it be that? Yeah. [01:30:00] Yeah. So I thought that was kind of cool how that unfolded itself. Yeah, I mean it’s interesting. I had like, I wrote down one like main note and it was interesting ’cause it was one of those episodes where like, as I was listening, I was just like, oh, this is one of the ones where like, I just find like the timeline, like very fascinating.

Like, it like, and its career is like just very interesting. Like, it’s like it’s pretty unique, right? Like there’s definitely a very small pool of people like him. Um, and then the one note I wrote down that was like, that was like the line that like. I guess I like connected with the most was like, not about his career at all.

And I was like, oh. Um, but it was when you guys were talking, and this make me if I’m wrong, but like, um, like physical media and like CDs and vinyls and like Oh, like in the, his early exploration of music and how inaccessible Yeah. Some of those bands were. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. But you guys were talking about it and you were talking about like the, all of the, the details, but then he was just like.[01:31:00]

You were talking about one thing with digital media and just like, he kinda just like cut you off. And he and I wrote it down, he said, um, about like having to listen to an album, like start to finish and like only that album at that time. Like when you put it in like the CD player or the like cassette tape, whatever, maybe.

And he is like, oh, honestly, I kind of miss it. I just don’t know if I’ll ever intentionally listen to a record as much as I did back then. And then he was talking about like the waiting and the anticipation and I’m like, we’ve talked about it briefly before and just like different things with like me loving CDs.

But I’m like, I never like got to, I just, I never got to experience that. But it’s just really fascinating to hear ’cause there’s so much like rave about Spotify and Apple music, but I’m like, I don’t know if I know like one of my friends who like intently. Chooses an album and like, doesn’t hit shuffle even, and just like listens to it from the first to the last.

Yeah. And I’m like, I do, but like, probably not often enough. Yeah. Right. And it’s like, it was almost like a weird handicap. It feels like, like there’s like a, a big piece of [01:32:00] like the music experience that came from that and that’s just like not inexistent with Well, and how I wrote you the other day about how good the Royal Otis record is.

Yeah. And you’re like, why are you sending this to me? ’cause the record came out two months ago and I said, well, this is, I think the first time I sat and listened to it, start, start to finish before at work. And then I was like, struck by, it’s a different experience. You know, how many good songs or just the overall feeling and flow mm-hmm.

Um, was, and that they didn’t all have to be what we call the bangers, which only usually make it on the playlist. Mm-hmm. Right. But just the whole vibe. Yeah. So definitely miss that. Definitely have lost that practice quite a bit. Yeah. Myself and. And I think the other part to that is I, here’s the way I was thinking about it afterwards is that the other big rave about Spotify or Apple Music, or at least streaming and what it, how it’s changed stuff for bands and music, um, is that I’m pretty sure that like, as an [01:33:00] artist right now, you would feel like, you know, be kinda handcuffed because it’s like, I have to put my music on Spotify despite, you know, once in a while you see those things about the owner just.

Invested all this money in these guys who make guns in wherever. Mm. You know what I mean? That whole thing happened, uh, and I’m pulling my music from Spotify as a protest, but like, you’d feel like I’m gonna be invisible. Like I’ll never, mm-hmm. Nobody will find my music if I don’t go on these things. And so I have no choice and you feel stuck.

But that conversation with him just reminded me that like I lived through an era. Where there was all these bands who were part of underground scenes and there was a Spotify or Instagram or, and people couldn’t work hard enough to try to find it. Yeah. Like that’s why I paused him. If you remember in that middle of that thing where I’m like, can we just stop for a second and recognize that you’re telling me a story about how he lived in small town Alberta, right?

Mm-hmm. And every time he went to, like every chance [01:34:00] he had, he was. In a new record store, he would go looking for this band and couldn’t find it for over a year until he found it in Edmonton. Can you imagine wanting to find an album new record for a year and then finally this and like way of listening to it and no way to hear it or anything, but still being like, this is the thing I have to have, and then finding it what that would yeah.

Feel like would be absolutely incredible. Like I’d say the closest thing is that like Spotify has like pre saves, right? And so like let’s say like. An artist like right now, like I like Olivia Dean, like I was just listening to, and like, if she was like, oh, pre save my album, it comes out in two months.

Then like the countdown is on a Spotify. Like you can literally set a countdown. Yeah. And it’s like you, you get the anticipation aspect from the countdown, but like, but here’s the other. You just waiting for a release date and then it’s all accessible to you just on a tap. Sure. But here’s the other thing that it’s souring, is that the way the album cycles work, ’cause.

The next artist that I was just speaking with a little bit ago when we, [01:35:00] I recorded mm-hmm. For the next, for the next week. Um, we’re talking about album cycle things and like some, some artists now, or at least their publicists or their labels or whatever they’re releasing three, four singles. Yeah. Like six, starting six months out of a full length.

Yeah. Release. Right? Like, I’m trying to think, who did I just start? Start? Well, who did that with their album? Yeah. And remember how much I love Wild Dorado and that record that came out. Mm-hmm. And they essentially just released four songs in a row, and then basically when you went back to Spotify, they looked like they were part of an ep.

So I thought all they did was just make an ep. And then I got surprised that they actually made a full Yeah. Record because, and I, and I kind of, as much as I adore that record and band, I don’t love that tactic and I get why they’re doing it and like build the hype and the digital age. Yeah. They’re trying to sustain hype for a long time.

Right. [01:36:00] And I get that, but, but then you listen to it in full and like only half of it’s new to you. Yeah. And. And usually the half that’s not as good. Yeah. Because they’re only, which is their bangers to release. They’re putting the, obviously the singles, they hit singles. Yeah. So I just don’t love that. And then, yeah, that part of that conversation with Tyson was very, uh, reminiscent of a time when the scarcity created so much desire.

Mm-hmm. And demand. And, and that’s oversaturated. Yeah. And, and I get it that there’s all kinds of things we miss from that era. Like, I love having. Such quick and easy and immediate access. Yeah. The ability to find, make a playlist. Anybody like, like just remember that I remember I had like all these CDs in my closet here.

Mm-hmm. Like there was a time when my listening only existed with the physical copies. I was able to purchase Yeah. Or borrow. And now I don’t have. That limitation? No. If [01:37:00] I just wanna find a song or the, so there’s, yeah. Well, and it’s crazy too, ’cause like I’m a huge like CD purchaser, but the amount of times I’ve been in like humongous, humongous, no, but the amount of times I’ve been in like Blackbird music on White and I’m like, oh, I love this cd.

And I pick it up and I’m like, oh, it’s $18. Like sure. And then I’m like humming and hawing and I’m like, eh, I don’t know if I’d wanna listen to it, start to finish. ’cause like I only really love half the songs. And I’m like, well at that point I could just go on my Spotify that you pay for. Yeah. And like play the ones I like or add ’em to the queue and move on.

Thank you for the acknowledgement. Yeah. Yeah. I’m funded fully by you for my music and that’s okay. Um. But I’m like, then I don’t buy it and I’m like, I’m part of the problem. No know what though. I had the same problem when there was no Spotify and it was just CDs and I would sit there in the store. Yeah.

And I’d maybe have, and it, it was even worse if there was like two that I wanted to get and I, which one do I like more percent of? Yeah. And then I was like, am I gonna be disappointed? Or the times I would sit there and I’d be like. The [01:38:00] album art looks so good and it would make me wanna buy a record, but then I’m like, I only know one song, and what if the rest of it sucks?

And then I’ll be so mad because like, this is the only 15 bucks I have. Yeah. Uh, for another month to before I could buy music, so I would have those wrestling matches. It was just a whole different set of. Issues. Yeah. And problems. Right. But, well, and then when, last time I was there, there was a Briscoe album, which was like, I loved, like they’re set at Folk Fest.

Not this summer, but the past one. Oh. And I was like, that one, I like need this album. And then I like was like, I don’t need to spend money right now. It’s fine. And then I went back for it after work one day and it was gone. And there’s. No more Briscoe albums. And I was like, I have so many regrets that I was all like, they’re gonna bring limited numbers in probably here.

Yeah. It’s a hard life. It’s a hard life. But I kind of love that I missed up, like I kind of loved that I was disappointed about missing out on disco media. ’cause I was like, good. Like I should be like, that’s part of the [01:39:00] experience I guess. It is. It’s part of the experience. Well, I mean that, uh, that was a fun little, yeah.

A little detour in that conversation. The Tyson for sure. Mm-hmm. Um, definitely brought back a lot of memories. I think I used to tell you, um, you know, around where block 1912 is I’m White. Yep. Uh, there used to be like a downstairs record store, like this little place called Sonics with an X at the end.

Mm-hmm. Um, and Uncle B uh, Brian used to work there. Oh, that’s nice. And this is when I first came to Edmonton. Um. And he used to work downstairs. And so Saturday mornings I would get up and I would go, ’cause that was his shift. He worked Saturdays and Saturdays were generally, um, him like sorting a whole bunch of new stuff or, or things.

So you had to see it all. And, and I would come in and I’d just sit behind the counter with him and I would just flip through CDs like crazy. And That’s so sick. Yeah. It was such a fun experience I remember. But everything was so locked into [01:40:00] being able to access. Product that way. Mm-hmm. And even before that, the days when I would have to, I’d find something from some unique and then I would have to track down.

I think that’s where I really got a fascination with the record label kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. That I ended up doing later. That I would have to find out who all the people were. I wanted to find out who the players on band, see those connections band were. And then these guys all play on these same records and you find out that they all play on the stuff for this record label.

And then I’d find out about the record label and then I would go and. Like send them a letter and they would send me back their catalog. Mm. And then I could order from like, it’s crazy, right? But I would order things sight on the scene because I was convinced it would be cool. Right. I like that. And then the last time that sort of happened in that way to me, which is interesting actually, is when.

One of the biggest shifts in the digital transformation took place, which was the early two thousands and Napster. Mm. And all that [01:41:00] pirated music that was available. And the very first thing, but not from Napster, I went to this one called Limewire, uh, which is like supposed to be like the lesser of the evils, or maybe it was more Mac friendly at the time, or some reason I downloaded Limewire, which again.

All of a sudden you have access to all this music people have uploaded in MP three format, which was brand new at the time. Mm-hmm. By the way. And one of the very first things I went looking for was something, anything to me that was similar. I can’t remember how I searched for it. Maybe I was looking for the genre of like this slacker indie ra.

Um. Genre of this band, pavement or sebo, two of my favorites. And it came up with this band called Centromatic that I’d never heard of, and I downloaded it. Did I just say one of their songs? And I still love Centromatic. Yeah. To this day. And it was my first discovery in the MP three era. I love that. Um, so those discoveries are definitely fun, but yeah.[01:42:00]

Cool. Cool. Okay. Cool, cool, cool. Okay. Um, I hope you feel better. Thanks. Hope that the tea does its magic. It’s called Mint Magic. Is it called Mint Magic? And I just said, yeah. And I had no idea. And it has a wizard on the box. Oh. Oh. Has a wizard on the box. Okay. Yeah. Awesome. Charlie, the Mint Magic vibes tonight.

I have one other question for you. I, I just remembered right now. Better be kind. Have you already seen Wicked? No, and I, you know what? I don’t want to What? Hot take. Don’t want to. Well, you know, I hate a musical. Yes. Hot take for the guy who’s in the music podcast business. But, um, I saw you look Grande on a podcast today.

Oh. And I’m like, I think I need to see, because they’re promoting the number two right now, which they all shot at the same time. Yes. They basically shot two movies at once. Yes. And then what a [01:43:00] cash cow, but. I, uh, I don’t know. I feel like I need to see it, but if you don’t wanna see it, I’ll just, I’ll run it slowly.

No, I would see it with you out of love and kindness and, ’cause it’s like a social thing, you know, like you gotta see it. But you know what, I’m just so sick of it. ’cause I have a time limit on my Instagram every day. And if I’m spending my 15 minutes today scrolling my reels and a bunch of wicked. SH comes up.

I get so sick of it. I don’t care for it. What you mean like all the press tours where her and Cynthia? Yes. It’s like every makeup brand, cute ed, this wicked that. Every clothing brand collab this, that I’m like all pink and green. You didn’t complain when like. Your Disney movies were all over the world.

Yeah, because I was World’s was five. Of course not. I didn’t even know, I didn’t even know anything past that. Okay, I get it. Well, I, um, but I don’t watch it. I just feel like I need to see it and yet I’ll probably inevitably at some point start fast forwarding through the songs. And, uh, my one [01:44:00] cringe thing is she was actually describing.

Today how she did a lot of work so that she could get that sort of style and range back into her voice that’s needed for that so that when she does the seamless transition from talking to singing, that it would be without thinking, and all I could hear was like. The seamless transition from talking to singing, which is the thing I hate the most in a musical.

Yeah. ’cause I’m like, quit singing your like con your regular thoughts. Yeah. I’m like to the bit and belt it or don’t sing at all. Well, she committed to a bit and belts it, but I just hate that transition where I’m like, you were, it’s awkward. It makes feel awkward. Were talking and you couldn’t just kept talking.

But now you’re gonna sing that stuff and then you’re gonna go back to talking and everybody’s gonna pretend like that didn’t happen. Yeah. Right. That’s ridiculous. I think it’s as realistic to like pull a light saber outta my arse than, yeah. It is for me, for people to just walk around and break into song and then everyone act like someone on campus.

I kid you [01:45:00] not. I came out of a building on campus. I was walking alone, which doesn’t happen crazy often on campus and took my AirPods out. So I was just like, was that a flex? Like you’re a social No, listen, I was, no, this is context. Okay. Oh, okay. So I was walking AirPods out. And all of a sudden I hear a distance like singing and this guy turns the corner of this brick building I was walking toward and he’s in his own musical.

He was two airports in full belt out loud, but bringing people into it, like walking up to people and like stroking their arm and like singing at them. Theater kid. The No, like past that. Vic. Vic Comp. It was a major from Vic Comp. Yes. I was like. What? And then he tells you he’s like majoring in biology, but like, no.

What? No, I’m just like, that’s just the type. Oh. But anyways, I was just like, but, but no one around acted like it was just normal. That’s why my musicals are fake. Everyone around you make eye contact with someone. Yeah. Their face is like WTF. Yeah, [01:46:00] exactly. Everyone’s got the big eyes and they’re like, somebody else, please tell me I’m not crazy or giggling.

Laughing. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. I wasn’t keeping a straight face. I would be like highly intolerant now. I’d be grumpy old man on that one, but it is what it is. Yeah. Um, okay. One last thing. This is a really long one that we thought we’d keep short. I know. Um, oh no, I’m gonna save this for next one.

Hm. Try remember I’ll go upstairs, write it down. I’m gonna pin this last thought. Wonder if it doesn’t flow with next time. It’s gonna be so great. Um, okay. Thank you. Hope you feel better. Thanks, Kate. Love you. Bye. Bye.