Skye Wallace is adaptable

ep47 Skye Wallace is adaptable

Glen Erickson (00:00)

I don’t know how often in your life you’ve been faced with a moment when the only response was, I guess we’re doing this now.

heard a common trope just this morning about how the things we do or the things that happen aren’t what define us. It’s the way we respond to them that reveals who we are. And who we are isn’t only based on our hardwiring. I had spent a lot of my life attributing these kinds of responses to personality types.

I mean, I had a family that sold their collective consciousness for a while to the Myers-Briggs system

and when I was younger, and despite my rebellion against being pigeonholed by a letter, it had clearly seeped in. So when I think about flexibility, spontaneity, adaptability, I really just have always ended up thinking about our hardwiring. But lately I’ve moved on from that. I mean, I’m always late to things, but

I’m now able to see a little more the underlying contextual factors in our ability to choose our responses. Now apply this thinking to the confines of the music business, a life of shared experiences, rites of passage, street smarts, and business know-how that is required to navigate a path to actually carving out a life in the music business.

Do you want to take a shot at writing songs for your career, become a country singer, tour the world, become the biggest promoter in town?

You will quickly see how these characteristics are essential ingredients not just for success, but especially longevity. For Skye Wallace, it becomes quickly apparent that change has been a constant by chance and by choice. Adapting isn’t just a pivot. And I’m just now realizing that I should have pulled a Ross from Friend’s Soundbite here, but adapting is not just a pivot.

It’s continual motion, continual shedding of some layers in order to take on new necessary ones. What makes Skye’s Story so good is how many layers she has had to go through to be who she is today. Skye Wallace is an indie rock artist and producer from Toronto, Ontario. The move to Toronto was a choice to adapt, sort of.

With five albums, official at least, in a span of 10 years, recording with highly respected producers and players in Canada, Skye’s touched the high markers for an indie artist, while not losing herself in any of them. Every album, every phase has been a flex, none more potent than fiercely taking on all the unrelenting demands of rock and roll motherhood in an attention industry that has never been comfortable with that blend. Adapting is not for the moment.

it’s for what comes next. Skye is clearly built for what comes next. My name is Glen Erickson. This is Almost Famous Enough. Thanks for spending your time with us. This is Skye Wallace.

Glen Erickson (03:10)

Fine. Everything will be just fine. It’ll be perfect. but thank you. I mean, this is our first introduction, Skye. So I’m Glen. yeah, it’s great to meet you. I mean, you always, I’ve said this with a number of artists, you you live this unfair advantage. the more you do this in your career, and the more you w have to work with press, where you meet people who feel like they already know you to some degree and you have no idea who they are. And that’s a really weird.

SW (03:11)

Everything will be just fine. Yeah. It’s great to meet you.

Totally.

Glen Erickson (03:39)

social dynamic to navigate, I’m sure, in life.

SW (03:42)

For sure. I liken it

to like I had a coffee shop job at the ferry terminal when I was a teenager. And in fact, I was like the manager there. So I worked six days a week. So for a lot of people, I would like run into them in town and they’d be like, hey, how’s it going? Like, Skye, I know this about you and this. I’m like, I’m their person that they go to and they see me like every day on the commute, whatever. And they’re

Glen Erickson (04:01)

Yeah.

Yeah.

SW (04:08)

one of a hundred and fifty commuters that I see, you know, like I can kinda remember the bits and pieces, but it’s like, yeah, the i it’s a skewed kinda relationship.

Glen Erickson (04:16)

Yeah, you see all the faces. I mean, w

don’t you think that’s kind of funny? Like everybody likes to think I mean, coffee shop’s one of the perfect examples where you have you like your person, like your you they make you feel like a regular. And that you know, the truth is they see like eight hundred people go by and they’re doing the best they can just to make you feel like a regular regular, I’m sure.

SW (04:21)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Totally.

Yeah.

Yeah, totally. And it like it boils

right down to even like like parasocial relationships on the internet. Like you know, like yoga with Adrian. Adrian’s my best friend. I know this, you know, like

Glen Erickson (04:45)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, man, that’s so

true these days. That’s so true. And then you meet them. I mean, I sometimes I’ll scroll TikTok, right? And you’ll see like red carpet interactions where some of these people who are at all the galas every year become their own version of a little mini celebrity, which is really weird. And then you think that they there’s probably literally no existing relationship between these people, it’s all on the camera.

SW (05:17)

Yeah. It is really weird. Yeah, absolutely.

Glen Erickson (05:17)

It’s really weird. It’s a weird thing we’ve created, right? But

yeah, so you and I will probably from this point go and forth have become online friends and and you know who who knows who knows where we’ll find a place to make it a little more reality. Maybe you’ll go on tour, maybe I’ll come out east. We’ll see what see what happens. But speaking of that, actually a great jumping off point, Skye, is you just played.

SW (05:30)

We’re real friends.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, absolutely.

Glen Erickson (05:46)

some shows or a show, which I think from my observation seems like it was kind of the first one in a while.

SW (05:56)

It was the first

full band show back since I had a baby. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Glen Erickson (06:01)

Yeah, exactly. That’s like a really big deal. Like that’s

like two feet in, right? so just tell me how it when? How did it meet expectations? How did it meet your fears? you know.

SW (06:15)

yeah. It I it

honestly it I had a lot of of just like trepidation, I guess, going into it. you feel so rusty. ‘Cause it had been I did do a full band show three weeks before my due date, so it it wasn’t as long as it could have been. like it was in July, but it was still quite a while and so I had all this like, do I still know how to do this? Like, you know.

but walking into like the first rehearsal with my band, I was like, no worries like that. So that worry was off the table. And then it was like, we’re bringing the in-ears, like the in-ear monitor rig in for this. Like, and I have this like the fear comes back as far as like, you know, just being faced with like a bunch of tech stuff going wrong, as it has over the course of of knowing this rig and and my friend Jason who plays guitar and keys with me had just like souped it up.

Glen Erickson (06:49)

Yeah.

Yeah.

SW (07:10)

And it went like so smoothly with that thing. And then get to the gig and it’s just like it was a nice, like really full room. And I’d never been to this venue before. And it was called the Sound Garage on Geary. And it was just a really awesome event. And like Ace of Wands was putting out their record as well. So it was kind of like this co-headline thing. So just like everything that I was afraid of didn’t materialize and in fact kind of went the opposite. So that that felt really nice. No.

Glen Erickson (07:13)

That’s great.

Was it a private event? Did I see?

Like, no, okay. That wasn’t that. Okay. Awesome. I mean, I don’t know that everybody listening, you know, unless you’re a musician for a while, you wouldn’t understand the dynamics of it in ear. And the easiest way I could describe it for people is it sort of literally takes you out of the normal dimension of just listening in a room, right? Where

SW (07:39)

No, it was fully public.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (08:05)

Like now everything’s being curated and controlled in your ear, literally. And the problem with that is that so many musicians, you grow up with a feel for th something, right? You feel in a room the volume of the amps, the dynamic of how hard your drummer is hitting things, changes depending on the dynamics of the s ceiling, how many bodies are in a room, and you learn that feel, and in ears take the feel all away in a moment. And so it’s

SW (08:16)

Yeah.

Я

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah. That’s actually something something that we’ve been working on is like, you know, like we bring our cabs for our ants for sound, like stage sound. And like, like I’ll usually have one ear out off just so I can kind of hear the front of house as well. And what we’re starting to do is put like two little mics pointing towards the audience so we can hear the actual room as well in the ears, which is kind of sweet. just like skewing a little bit more of that like live sound. And like one good thing, because I feel you on all of this,

Glen Erickson (08:35)

Pretty hard dynamic to shift.

Yeah.

SW (09:03)

First of all, I like very like, why would we play to a click? Like that sounds crazy. But it actually is kind of nice to have it like fade into the background while you’re playing and you’re kind of like, I don’t even hear it anymore. I’m just like on time. And then also not having the monitors up front like muddy the sound for the people at the front it has been interesting as well. So like, yeah, just like, you know, lots of gives and takes, column A, column B.

Glen Erickson (09:10)

Yeah.

Yeah, hundred percent.

Yeah, you have to believe,

you have to just believe in all those payoffs and kind of like step off that cliff, right? And just do it type thing. Definitely changes. Yeah. Yeah, I’ve seen I’ve seen some people fall off it pretty hard in a performance, unfortunately, sometimes. But but you know, the I f I think it’s funny because I just this isn’t really the topic to talk about, but it’s just funny to me how like when you most people’s understanding is that they just watch like

SW (09:31)

Yeah. For sure. And it’s been a cliff. Yeah. Yeah, it’s been a cliff for sure.

no, that’s the worst.

Glen Erickson (09:56)

Some live performance like the Grammys or some idle performance, you know, where the artist kind of rips the thing out of their ear all of a sudden, and they usually have some sort of a grimace or scowl, like something’s gone wrong. Like, and then everybody’s like, What it what’s wrong with what are they doing? But yeah, that’s who knows what’s going on. But that I mean, that could really that could totally kill you. Taking choose the choice to take it out could sink you way faster than not knowing what’s happening in your

SW (10:11)

Yeah.

Totally.

Yeah.

For sure, for sure. Yeah.

Glen Erickson (10:26)

Unless unless something went crazy. But so

it’s you’re back on the saddle, you’re or on the on the riding the bike again, whichever metaphor suits you best personally. But and I see a whole bunch of shows lined up for the summer in July and stuff. So definitely things moving forward. But before I get all the way to just what’s happening and moving forward, I love to just find out how you got where you are.

SW (10:32)

Mm.

Ha ha.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (10:56)

A little bit. So so Skye Wallace grew up actually, you’re in Toronto right now. You’ve been living in Toronto. tennis years now. Okay. But that’s not where you started. You started out on the West Coast. Yes, or or even before that. You were? I missed that. there you go.

SW (11:02)

I am like tennis years.

Well, actually I kinda I was born in Scarborough. Fun fact. Well, I moved

I moved to the West Coast when I was fifteen. and at that point me and my family had already moved around a lot. So we were like staying in one place like for a a year or two max. and lived all over. And then we ended up in BC. Yeah, I finished high school there. and then I moved to Vancouver on my own and started doing music.

Glen Erickson (11:22)

Okay.

SW (11:40)

out of there actually. and decided to move to Toronto when it felt right and I don’t know, just felt the pull whenever I came here and yeah. Strange life.

Glen Erickson (11:42)

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Well that that to me

is a sign of what I’m learning doing podcasting now and internet research is that people who move around a whole bunch, then then researchers will have just land they’ll like they they just want to land on one thing. So they just landed on you were Vancouver before you were Toronto. This is what I’m learning right now, right? About about stuff like this.

SW (11:56)

Hm.

Yes. There’s a lot of like

yeah, there’s a lot of kind of false lore out there. Like some people are like, you’re from the East Coast and I’m like, No, I just have some family forget it. Like, yeah, like there’s so many things out there. But anyway, yeah, it’s

Glen Erickson (12:17)

absolutely.

Ha ha ha.

Yeah, or yeah,

or it’ll blow certain things up. Like I can’t remember who I was talking to, and it just kept wanting to like blow up the fact that they were born in England. it was Sean Hall, the guy who’s known as the harpoonist. You know Sean. Yeah. So the fact that he was like born in England and and stuff, and like that’s like this much of his life to him now. Do you know what I mean? But the internet keeps just carrying it over and over and over and over again. But

SW (12:30)

Yeah.

yeah, yeah, yeah, I know Sean.

Yeah, totally.

What

is even

Glen Erickson (12:56)

So but you

said Vancouver’s where like at least your some of your at least your like personal expression of music. But before that, like I find interesting is your background has like very early on classical training, vocal vocal training. Like you got put into voice lessons very early and

SW (13:05)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (13:20)

I mean, outside of, and again, we’ll see if this is internet lore or not, that you had a cool aunt and uncle who introduced you to Sloan, that seems to be living forever and stuff on the internet. But but being in the classical training world or you know, in in voice from a very young age, that’s a very distinct track that doesn’t I’m gonna say this sort of like with a little trepidation, just to get it right, but.

SW (13:28)

Я

Yeah, for sure.

Glen Erickson (13:49)

In my experience, like a lot of the classical train stuff, doesn’t lend itself to what I would call creativity. In the way that we call creativity, as in the actual writing and creating original scores and things like that, they don’t always overlap, right? So I’m curious at what point, because you know, there’s a certain point that it’s obvious that you’ve started writing songs and stuff, but what point did that actually start to germinate inside of you?

SW (13:57)

Mm.

Totally.

Glen Erickson (14:19)

while you’re doing all of these things, like when did the my own voice, my own expression, my own ideas start to come out?

SW (14:27)

Yeah.

Well, so my my like background with the classical was kinda was an interesting one because I followed my teacher. We started doing, you know, like the Koanas festivals and all the performance stuff, but then he ventured off on his own. And he was like a classical, like, you know, did a lot of operettas and things, like this kind of guy from Wales. And then he started his own curriculum and was very free with like how we want we’d bring our own sheet music in. We could do like

Contemporary stuff like musical theater, all this kind of fun stuff, as well as you know, all the stuff that he was introducing to us. We still did, you know, sight reading and and a lot of the the technical stuff. And but for that reason, I think there was a little bit more of this, like, you know, creative elements infused into it. However, like the technical side of it, I’m so glad how now being a touring artist to have that foundation of like the technique and everything has been so helpful.

but I also think that you touched on something really important, which was that you know, like w is singing or like doing anything with any kind of specific technique puts you in this box. And I think that box is what kind of drove me to be doing rock music because it felt like my voice was meant to sound pretty. And then I was starting to do like write my own music and I was like,

A girl with a guitar doing folk music because that’s what I could access like that’s what I could make at the time, you know, and that’s what I was writing. And so I think that that box really frustrated me and pushed me to like be a lot more creative and go down different avenues that maybe I wouldn’t have otherwise. because I wanted to put distortion on my acoustic guitar and then it kind of like devolved from there. Or I guess evolved. Why did I say it’s evolved? I don’t know.

Glen Erickson (15:59)

Yeah, yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, you said distortion, so maybe that tracks with that. But but I mean that sort of I mean we’ll maybe get into some examples of this. It kind of tracks with I think some hallmarks of a Skye Wallace career as I see it from the outside about not wanting to be in a box and having having something to do about it. it seems to be like that’s a a pretty obvious where that may have got its start to as far as f first expressions go.

SW (16:26)

Distortion.

Yeah, I guess. It’s true.

Mm-hmm.

Glen Erickson (16:53)

But yeah, so you are also one of these people who got started at it pretty early with a sense of independence. Like, I’m just gonna start doing this. stories of you just, you know, not only going in and just making your own first EP, but then doing the thing that a lot of people have to do if they’re like they want more, they want the whole thing. So you start having to book your own.

SW (16:53)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (17:20)

shows, even if you can’t find conventional shows, you’ll it you know, take what you can get and play everything and and and suffer through transportation challenges and suffer through scheduling or, you know, any of these sort of aspects that make it even harder if you’re making things for yourself. So I guess I curious about that is most people’s story that do that, I’m finding

SW (17:26)

Totally.

Glen Erickson (17:49)

find legs to be able to do that like even in their teens, right? Their late teens, because they’re in a band. Y it’s easier to do it with a crew, right? There’s like you you lose you lose all that vulnerability, you lose all that like you like fear and sort of like not sure of yourselfness because you’re propped up by one another, you know, and yeah, put both the the practical part of the pooled resources and

SW (17:56)

Mm.

Totally.

pooled resources, you know.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (18:18)

And and then the the more sort of like intangible parts of like you can sustain a false hope with one another if we just keep going through these motions with each other and you see someone else believing and like they’re they keep showing up. I’m gonna keep showing up. And I think I think that’s a contributing factor to why most solo artists I find it’s not till their twenties and

SW (18:31)

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (18:45)

College and after college before they really get sort of the legs to try that kind of stuff. So is that just a hallmark of your sort of personal character and tenaciousness? Or did you also just because there’s a lot of fortuitousness in this industry? Like, did you just have opportunities show up for you that you got to walk through those those doors?

SW (18:45)

Mm.

Yeah.

I not really to be honest. I think I went ahead and like did, you know, I toured my first EP when I was like I might I think I did the EP when I was nineteen and then I toured when I was twenty, and I went out just like solo across to like from Vancouver to Halifax and I couldn’t drive and I just thought that’s what you were supposed to do. So I like called venues and emailed venues and like took the train and I played no, wait, I didn’t even play on the train. I was just like

Bouncing around. I had because I moved around so much, I had family where I could like sleep on couches or like spare rooms or whatever. So that was helpful. But I was just like, no, this is what I’m gonna do. And I’m gonna go around and like play. Some shows were great. Some shows weren’t. And whenever it’s that catch twenty-two thing too, when you’ve never been booked before, no one wants to book you.

so you I made shows happen. I like was like, well, what if I get a PA rented and then I can go to this coffee shop that I go to all the time and then my friends can come. And the coffee shop was like, Yeah, sure, why not? Well, you don’t really do that, but like, you know, I it was a lot of like I didn’t know that you couldn’t do those that you like that it was difficult to do those things and I encountered a lot of difficult

Glen Erickson (20:17)

Yeah.

SW (20:25)

moments, you know, like when I first went on tour, like iPhones were brand new and the maps were kinda suspect and I got lost a lot. And, you know, that was there’s a lot of flow moments and then there’s still yeah.

Glen Erickson (20:34)

yeah. Yeah, we’ve got great stories about that. Like what

a golden era of and it’s not that long ago. This is what’s surprised me. When I think about it, I’m like, that’s not that long ago that we had to print a Yahoo map off. And then sh yeah, map quest, that’s actually probably what it was. And and then, you know, I’m from out west and then show up in, you know, Kitchener and

SW (20:44)

No.

Yeah. Or like MapQuest, remember MapQuest?

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (21:04)

drive up to a place and you didn’t bother to check the hours that was open and wonder why nobody’s there yet because the place doesn’t even any I like going through all this stuff. The whole different, very different world to be growing up and trying all that stuff. But I mean you talk about it the way that I think is very common but almost like integral. Like it’s almost like it’s only something for the young to do. That sort of blind ambition,

SW (21:12)

Yeah, totally.

Glen Erickson (21:34)

that you’re just that you’ll just kind of you don’t need to know all the facts. And if you did, you might get like get into your head and not try it. Right. Like you need that. Like yeah, you need to like I I liken it to when I was about twenty years old and out in like Chilliwack area, lower mainland and my friends and they’re like, let’s go like we had been climbing the train bridges.

SW (21:40)

You might not. Totally. Totally.

Mm-hmm.

Glen Erickson (22:04)

Just and just climbing the rivets and jumping into the Sardis River and and and they’re like, let’s go jump off one of these cliffs we heard about at Cultus Lake. And and I wouldn’t have known that I might have a little fear of heights. I didn’t think I had any fear of heights. I hadn’t thought about it. But not until you’re standing 80 feet above the water, right? Do you all of a sudden and there wasn’t a path back up the way you came down? Do you recognize what

SW (22:14)

Yep, called a slake, yep.

Yeah.

man.

Glen Erickson (22:33)

that feeling is and and you’re better off without it, right? Like I would never have gotten out on that edge if I knew what that feeling was. So I feel like that’s people’s like path into music so often, right? Hard knocks, hard knocks.

SW (22:37)

Yeah.

Exactly, exactly.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Absolutely. Hard knocks.

Yeah, for sure. It’s like, would yeah, would anybody really now I feel like I’m older, you know, like it’s like, would I do that again? No, not right now. Like I’m I’m at a point, it’s not even like a like less energy necessarily, but like it’s like I don’t know, I like myself. I like respect myself enough to like, I’m not gonna be sleeping in on any floors anymore, you know? Like I’m I had some bad.

Glen Erickson (22:59)

Yeah.

Yeah, that’s pretty important.

Yeah.

SW (23:16)

bad

times where I like definitely paid my dues, extensively.

Glen Erickson (23:19)

Yeah, I mean, the band

I ended up on like the bulk of my music journey, like we didn’t come together until I was thirty four, thirty-three, four thirty-four. And yeah, the the same consensus of guys was like, we’re not like we’re we’re past that phase where we’re hitting friends up in every town and sleeping on their floor. We’re gonna have to figure out a way to do a little better business and pay for decent hotel rooms and do this differently.

SW (23:26)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Totally.

Glen Erickson (23:49)

You you’ve like so in like obviously that’s your jumping off point into this. I don’t know how you were feeling at the time, whether like some people would characterize it as like it’s all or bust, like I don’t have a plan B, or you know, how tight your family is to making you feel like you need a another career option or whether they fully embrace it. What were you going through?

SW (24:17)

Mm.

Glen Erickson (24:18)

In that time when it came to your outlook about this as your future.

SW (24:22)

I mean I super lucked out in that I have a a ha a very close knit family around me who like, you know, they’re not flush with cash or anything, but they were very much like, you know, like follow your dream. Doesn’t matter if it makes money, like you just gotta like do the thing and not regret not doing it. yeah, honestly, like I don’t know if I would still be doing things at this point. If not, because just there’s so many

Glen Erickson (24:39)

Mm. Yeah. What a gift.

SW (24:52)

moments where, you know, like my mom, my dad, my brother, my sister, they’ve all been so supportive and they come to all my shows when they can, like, you know, physically, you know, geographically. and and like I, yeah, that’s that’s everything. And I know so many people who don’t have that. And it like I I don’t know how you would surmount that. Because there’s so there’s so many other factors that are up against you.

Glen Erickson (25:01)

Yeah.

Yeah.

SW (25:17)

in so many moments, you know, that’s like you’re already fighting all these battles. So to have people in your corner is just like there’s nothing better than that.

Glen Erickson (25:23)

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean I I wanna ask you some questions they can get into a little bit later about like you’ve been very outspoken about a number of things, at least not outspoken in the pejorative sense, in the in the you’re very free to just speak your mind sort of sense, either through your lyrics or just when you when you discuss things, press or socials or whatever. that usually, you know, either comes from

SW (25:45)

Mm-hmm.

Glen Erickson (25:57)

a number of places, I think, but I’m always curious about, you know, I think a lot of that it comes from how you’re brought up and the and sort of either the freedom or endorsements or security that you feel that way. Sounds like that might overlap with the way you just described your family sort of endorsing you to just do what you want and the, you know, these sort of typical societal consequences aren’t necessarily a concern. Is that i is that

SW (26:09)

Mm.

Glen Erickson (26:27)

P does that possibly track? Is that an overlap to your sort of confidence in just sort of doing things your way, saying saying what you feel you need to say and not sort of bowing to other pressures?

SW (26:34)

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I think we’re in an age where like all of the all of the the weaknesses of the world that we live in, like the cracks are starting to show, you know, and I think it’s important to discuss things amongst ourselves as far as like, you know, is like is the way things are an actually the equitable fit like

maybe things could change. Maybe this isn’t just the like the way it is kind of thing, you know? And I find that with like all sorts of inequities, specifically to music too. Like I was even having a conversation the other day with like a couple of people who also musicians experiencing just like high levels of burnout and and I’ve been there as well. And just like speaking to each other is so powerful.

Glen Erickson (27:07)

Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

SW (27:29)

because the like the reaction is so often to turn inward and to and to like separate yourself. so fr from like an emotional standpoint, from like a connective, I think now more than ever, like in general people need to be connective. And so like that’s what I use social media for is like sometimes I just like to speak my mind. I’d like to speak about like what my specific experience is or

you know, ways that we can connect. Cause I mean, like that’s that’s also why we write songs too, right? To have that like that connectivity, that person to person thing, like live is so important to me for that reason because I think it opens up these conversations, it opens up these emotional faculties that like even, you know, a rock show, the frequencies of a rock show, you can like dance and start to like, you know, cry and feel something that you might not have otherwise. So I think there’s something very like

Glen Erickson (28:02)

Yeah.

Yeah.

SW (28:22)

entwined, about all of that together. And so I like to use whatever my music stuff is to kinda entwine with like, you know, just conversations and thoughts and being connected.

Glen Erickson (28:27)

Yeah.

Yeah. I

yeah, I agree. I think I mean you hear a lot of I mean you’ve probably heard before somebody say the line like just like stick to your music rather than like share your opinions online. I think a lot of artists have heard that. And it I think, you know, and there’s a lot of different versions of that. I just think it really like humanizes like expressing what you think and feel in a song.

It still gets locked to a an art form. It gets locked to a piece of art which people are consuming and then can treat whether it’s fair or not, treat that just like a commodity. It’s it’s still not humanized the way an artist having a place to just be like, This is what I think. Like my life is more than just the songs that you hear, right? And to be able to share your perspectives and and sort of make it broader and

SW (29:07)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (29:32)

And what’s really informing, you know, the songs or or whatever people are hearing. And and especially the overlap to a performance, right? I I mean the number of times I’ve thought I thought what an artist was or who they were. And then you see them live and you’re like, they’re nothing like I assumed, right? Until you see them. So yeah.

SW (29:38)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Totally, totally. Yeah. Yeah,

big time. And I think right now, like there’s so much music out there that there is like kind of circling back to the beginning of our conversation, there is this element of like like deep connection with the individual with online spaces now where like, you know, people want to know you a bit better. They want you to kind of just be who you are. And a as far as like, you know, I I’ve been

Glen Erickson (30:08)

Mm.

SW (30:18)

Doing the social media and all the the artist stuff for a long time and have gone through my ups and downs, my like deep hates for it and and stuff like that. and now I’ve kind of just like come to the moment where it’s like all I can be is myself, because like at first, you know, different points of like wanting to put on a persona so that you can distance yourself, so that you can kind of have some separation and space to breathe and all that. Like there’s merit to that. But at the end of the day, if you’re just

Glen Erickson (30:28)

Yeah, yeah.

SW (30:47)

Like yourself, your everything is honest and you can it just everything’s a lot easier. You can speak what you actually think and there’s space for everything. you know, like your audience will find you and and honestly, like when people are like like just just sing your songs or whatever, it’s like then like there there are people who will do that and that’s fine. But like, you know, people say that to the lowest of the low sometimes and I’m like they’ve like they have like

Glen Erickson (30:50)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

SW (31:16)

anti fascist songs from the get go. Like what are talking about? There is no nothing there’s so many artists that are political, like, you know, intrinsically.

Glen Erickson (31:20)

Yeah, and it’s like

Yeah.

And my life is more than a 55-minute capsule that I put out every two years, right? Like there’s a whole lot more to say than that. It’s kind of a ridiculous notion. But so I I’m curious for your career. Like, so you got like five full-length records over a you put them out over about a 10-year span, like in a in but in the last 12 years now, right? I see.

SW (31:33)

Totally. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There’s a couple that aren’t

online too. They’re secrets. Yeah, it’s crazy. Yeah. I put out my first EP in 2009. Yeah, exactly. It was like it just the project kind of grew out of them and they were like like one of them, especially I like did all myself on GarageBand, and it’s like not very good. But I love the moments in it. Yeah, exactly.

Glen Erickson (31:55)

really? Like you mean pre twenty fourteen? Well, I mean that’s fair. You’re allowed to keep that for yourself. Yeah.

Yeah, that’s not for everybody to hear. That’s totally fair.

Yeah, that’s totally fair.

SW (32:22)

But like

I don’t know, I think But it’s but it’s interesting to kinda like now it’s at I this next one that I’m working on now is gonna be number eight. So like that’s crazy.

Glen Erickson (32:26)

Yeah, I mean

Yeah.

Yeah. Eight to you, number six to Wikipedia, number something to somebody else. Yeah, that’s funny how that’ll like play itself out. But so I mean, there’s a number of questions. I find it an interesting sort of course through these records and just sort of knowing how a lot of people just navigate their way in a career through scenes, through the business, particularly in Canada and what it means to be.

SW (32:37)

Eight to me. Yes. Exactly. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Glen Erickson (33:03)

Canadian artist and funding and their opportunities that can come with it to even grow anything. And I guess the first question I wanna talk is about again, like we talked a little bit about you just sort of having the blind ambition and the gumption pretty early to just get out and sort of be like this is the the life I want and start doing these things. And inevitably you need a little bit of luck, you have to keep working really hard and just learn.

learn lessons quickly, learn from people like what sort of the best choices to make in certain areas. But you also have kind of have to meet people. And I’m curious about how you’ve been able to sort of make connections that you have. So you’ve navigated your way through meeting Jim Bryson very early, who’s had very influential work on a lot of like like you know, formative Canadian artists and bands.

SW (33:56)

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (34:03)

From Kathleen Edwards, who I love his work with, to The Weaker Thans and to others. So and his own music, I’m a fan of very much. And most recently, I had on the podcast Ken Yates, who, you know, he did like three records with with Jim. And yeah, and and I’ve always loved Jim’s work. And I mean, that’s a pretty early connection from you, but then you move from that to doing a self like titled record with

SW (34:08)

Yeah.

Awesome. Yeah. Me too.

yeah. That’s right. So good.

Glen Erickson (34:32)

a guy Sam Cash who does not have at least you know the name recognition of a gym. Like that’s a certain so I I guess what I’m saying is like then you go on to was it? man, the internet is killing me today.

SW (34:42)

That one that one was actually Devin Loheed. Sorry. The yeah, but then I did I did

do the I did do a single with Sam Cash for this one song called Scarlet Fever. So it’s all I mean like it’s all awash. Things are all happening around the same time.

Glen Erickson (34:57)

Okay.

Well, I mean, it follows the same thing

that I’m sort of moving towards. It’s like, yeah, so like you move to some of these different people, you’ve had opportunities, you get a chance to you’ve ha been able to write some songs with like Charlie from Hotel Mira and Matt Mays, I think is on the list of credits. Like some some really interesting writers and a very

SW (35:05)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Glen Erickson (35:24)

Varied. Like when I look at it and I just think about who the people are. To most recently landing with Hoxley Workman, who has a very, you know, interesting to him. You can tell me if I’m wrong, actually. Hoxley, he has a very specific flavor, it feels like. And yet he still seems to be able to produce. Like he his production work doesn’t stay in a box. You know, it’s not like

SW (35:31)

Mm.

Yeah.

No,

no.

Glen Erickson (35:51)

like this is a Steve Albini record or you know what I mean type thing. Like so I think that’s a really unique characteristic. But I mean these are some people yeah like that have had impacts on a lot of people’s careers. You’ve had an opportunity to kind of weave your way through them but you never did this thing that other people do which is like okay I found somebody who’s got a good reputation. We had like some good work together.

SW (35:54)

Totally. Yeah.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (36:20)

I I gotta stick with the formula. And you know what I mean? Like you’ve moved through a lot of formulas. So this is what I’m getting at is like, and and some of them on the surface are like, that’s a big name. And then that’s not as much of a known name, and then that’s a big name. And then I’m just curious how that played out for you. Like, were were there intentional choices? Is it again just like you turn a corner and it’s an a new open door and you walk through it? Like

SW (36:23)

Mm. Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah. I think I think it is kind of that’s kind of how I’ve always navigated things, is just kind of like, you know, always evolving, always like trying new things. And I mean, I I honestly I think I was just kind of like motoring at such a like, you know, you just kind of keep the momentum keeps going and you’re kind of like at whip speed, you’re kind of like, I’m gonna do this and I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna do this, and the like the I think that’s what you have to do too as an independent. Like you’re the funding’s here. this is how much I have.

Glen Erickson (36:49)

How does this play out?

Mm-hmm.

SW (37:18)

to do so I’m gonna do this and I’m gonna try this and I just met this person. There’s really good chemistry there. Like I think that has been a really fun ride. And you know, maybe not sticking with the formula is sometimes to my detriment. but for me as an artist it’s felt very exciting. Like each new album or sound has an intention behind it.

Or like something I’m trying to access in myself or in, you know, where the live show has been going or who I’m working with or like the songwriting or what have you. there’s always been different things that I’m aspiring to and there is kind of no end, like no finish line, which is really nice. And and I’ve loved working. There’s never been someone that I’ve worked with where I’m like, like never doing that again, better go to somebody else. It was just kind of like where, I don’t know.

where the next the next chapter started. and like I feel like I’ve been so lucky to have worked with so many awesome people. Like Jim was, I think, just a cold call on my part. I was just like, I saw him with the weaker thans, and weaker thans my favorite band. And like I saw them play when I was living in Edmonton for a a hot second. and I was just really? I lived there for like six months one time.

Glen Erickson (38:27)

Yeah.

That’s where I live. You are I didn’t know you were in Edmonton. Like what on how hot of a minute?

Okay, six months. Okay. damn. Well okay. Well no wonder you left. Okay.

SW (38:39)

Yeah, pretty. And it was like the winter months. Like it was yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

But I think I came up to him after the show they there at the Meyer Hor Horowitz. And that’s when I first met him. And then I like sent him a message. And then years later got a factor grant and it all made sense and we made that awesome record together. So like, yeah. Yeah. It’s crazy. So crazy.

Glen Erickson (38:53)

Okay.

That’s great.

Yeah.

SW (39:09)

And you mentioned Matt Mays.

Glen Erickson (39:09)

How did

SW (39:10)

He’s doing my next record, which is really fun. Yeah.

Glen Erickson (39:13)

really? Okay.

I want to talk about your next record in a bit. But how did because I’ve been able to talk to a number of people who work with Jim now. And like little side side note, the band that I had been with for a long time, about the time we decided either we keep going or we don’t keep going, Jim’s was the name on the table to be like this is who we would want to produce the next record so bad. So but it never

SW (39:23)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Cool

damn.

Glen Erickson (39:40)

Never happened. But

but I’m curious because I just see the different work he does and I’m always interested, like how how does Jim specifically affect either your songs or the way a record is gonna come out or even I’m curious about how he affects your own sort of evolution as an artist.

SW (39:46)

Mm.

Yeah. I

think so this was like with something wicked, the twenty sixteen record that we did together. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s like I feel like now is a really nice time where there’s like enough distance from it that I’m like I’m just looking back and starting to like really what’s the word? Kind of process it all. You know, so it’s kinda like it’s kinda timely. so like we had an interesting thing where we did, we were gonna just do an EP, four songs.

Glen Erickson (40:05)

It’s a long time ago too, I recognize that I’m asking old memories, but yeah.

SW (40:30)

I didn’t know if I had funding or not, then I got funding. And so we’re like, damn, and we have to like make this a full record now. So I like wrote a bunch more songs. And we did the first half at Lincoln County Social Club in Toronto, and then we did the second half at Fixed Hinge at Jim’s studio in Stittsville. and whole other situation of players, like I like Philippe Charbineau, Charbonneau played bass.

And then, my god, it’s been so long. I am kicking myself for not remembering this guy’s name. But this drummer, he was from Hull, I think. And just like it was crazy what he did to some of the stuff. And like just Jim and I working away and like these little like Jim’s he’s very exploratory, like he likes little beeps and bloops.

in the studio. So like us just like hunting for little things and him coming up with like very hooky cool things. yeah, it was really fun. And like I think it took it into places that my music hadn’t gone yet. I don’t think I had taken the reins as being as harnessing my weirdness yet. And that allowed me to a little bit. And he encouraged that. And has also, you know, he’s done things a little differently. And I think

Glen Erickson (41:26)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

SW (41:54)

That was like seeing that like a successful model of that was was a great encouragement. Yeah.

Glen Erickson (42:00)

That’s great.

Yeah, I think you need I I think I don’t know how you feel about this. I see because of the accessibility of the tools, the democratization of the tools in the digital kind of growth age that’s happening. I mean it’s been happening for a while, but it just keeps progressing. But you see more people even get encouraged, like from a young age, like, you can just make this yourself.

SW (42:15)

Mm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (42:32)

And and I think you can, but you’re missing out on the only education this industry gives you because there’s no school for it, which is to sit underneath the master, so to speak, you know, at some tier or level. So I don’t know what your thoughts are on that or how how kind of the industry keeps moving.

SW (42:35)

Yeah.

Yeah, honestly.

Yeah, no, I feel that. I’m like at a point where I’ve I’ve co-produced records. Like the last record I did with Hoxley, we co-produced it. And that was the first time where I was like even in that seat, even though I was already like like he was very encouraging as well. He was like, you’re already producing, like you’re just, you know, not not owning it kind of thing. And it’s like, yeah, absolutely. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like, you know, I mean, like I think I think artists have their own visions and stuff like that.

Glen Erickson (43:14)

Not putting the credit on the record? Yeah. Yeah.

SW (43:23)

But like I didn’t have the skill set or the language. And so like working with him really helped with that. And I think I think only now I’m looking at like what’s coming in like the future, future. And I’m like, yeah, I feel like from this breadth of experience being in studios and like being I haven’t worked with a lot like people who have very different workflows and different sounds and different like there’s no one way to produce something.

Glen Erickson (43:53)

Mm-hmm.

SW (43:53)

And

that is so liberating, you know, that you can find your own pace and your own sound and your own like way of doing things all together. So I think only now am I feeling like excited to, you know, I can work in logic and like I can make things sound pretty good and I can, you know, kind of experiment from there. Whereas, you know, before I think it’s just like it’s great to draw from breadth of experience.

Like like you said, like you can’t go to school for that. You know, you can you can get a lot of technical stuff that I should probably know from a school environment, but but don’t yet. but it it there is something to be said, like the merit of that experience is huge.

Glen Erickson (44:20)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, that’s a great point. Like it you could go to the school for the technical part, right? You you could easily go and get that. I had I had ventured into like graphic design and web design as a career pivot like a long time ago. And I went to the only people I knew who might hire me. And and they basically made the comment to me, you know, like I could hire any. I mean, it’s a derogatory term now, so I apologize for using it, but he’s like,

SW (44:46)

For sure.

Cool.

Glen Erickson (45:10)

Any monkey can do Photoshop was I remember the f the expression, you know, but you know, I’m looking for somebody with an eye, you know, and the it’s the art, right, of it, even though it’s and so I think about that in music, the way we talk about it with like you’re talking and it interestingly you use the word language. and you’ve like again, you’ve been able to weave your career through a lot of different people kind of.

SW (45:13)

Right.

Yeah.

For sure.

Mm.

Glen Erickson (45:40)

Coming alongside of you to have their hands on the technical stuff. A lot of different as a solo artist, you you’ve played with a lot of different musicians then, right? Rather than just being locked in with the same for three or four. how do how do you feel like that develops your vocabulary, your language? It’s like traveling the world and picking up like different cultures, even, right? That forms this ability.

SW (45:54)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (46:09)

I guess what I feel like in my world is is that your ability to translate quickly for people, whatever you’re doing, every nuance shows it’s that it’s that intangible skill that nobody really gets hired for anymore, but everyone wishes they could get a job for how much they know, you know. And how has that sort of contributed to your life? Because it just sounds like that’s

SW (46:19)

Mm, mm.

Yeah, totally.

Glen Erickson (46:38)

probably been an integral part of you developing and staying in this, like this twelve plus years career.

SW (46:44)

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, honestly, I feel a little bit like a cockroach at this point. Like I can’t be killed. Like, because there’s this like this element of like changing all the time and being comfortable with adaptation and change, I think is a huge part in this world. Everything always changes. That’s a that’s the guarantee. I think, you know, a lot of the things that I learned out of necessity.

Glen Erickson (46:53)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SW (47:14)

you know, I was playing with lots of different people all over the map because like I was just bouncing around solo myself. I literally didn’t rehearse with a drummer and a guitarist one time in Montreal and we played a set. and like, you know, just things like that where it was just like we just kinda like I was able to wing it in a lot of formats. You know, we were talking about the in-ears, but like I spent so many years being, you know, having to play without even having a stage monitor, you know, like it’s things like that where it’s just like you

Glen Erickson (47:41)

Yeah, exactly.

SW (47:43)

You kind of rough it and you do all these things so then like you can kind of make it work with whatever. You can like like I played a a shed on Fogo Island with no amplification with a six piece band that I was bringing on tour. And like that was crazy, but like we just kind of did it. Like the drummer played the like snare case as the kick drum and th and you know, it’s just like you are always adapting. I think being adaptive in this world currently is like so, so, so important. And also like

Glen Erickson (48:02)

Yeah.

SW (48:12)

I don’t know. I think it’s the way to exist together as a society too. Like, you know, growing up, like my sister has some physical disabilities and like, you know, we just adapt because that’s if one person need it needs it, then we all need it. And like that’s just what we do. So I think there’s like just so much gain for the entire community when we focus on like the needs of like everybody.

Glen Erickson (48:25)

Mm-hmm.

SW (48:40)

like individually when we can all kinda collaborate and create this network of support and you know, existence. You know, there’s something to that.

Glen Erickson (48:44)

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah. there’s two places I want to go with things, and I’m like, if I go down one, I might completely lose the other. So now I’m like trying to think quickly on the fly, choose my own adventure, which is totally fine. okay, so I’ll go this way at first. just out of a curiosity, like you’re talking about community and some things that are bigger than music, but

SW (48:51)

Yeah.

Ha ha.

Choose your own adventure.

Mm-hmm.

Glen Erickson (49:19)

but just talking about like, okay, we got like these records you’ve got through to Huxley and you’re at this point now. New new music coming out, you said, and you work with Matt Mays. so before I ask you about working with Matt Mays, I’m just curious where your take is, if you have one, of where we’re at with this idea of like public funding.

And how does an artist survive? Like I I mean, there’s different ways I’ve landed with people who are 10 to 20 years so far on this podcast, you know, into their career and how how you stick with it, right? And on the outside, a lot of people think like you’ve had a lot of luck or you’re just really, really good. So of course you have a career, or but there’s all these other things that are so hit and miss in Canada and people would be surprised who is still drawing.

SW (49:50)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (50:16)

funding like up and coming artists. I remember getting super angry if metric was still getting any public mundy or and so there’s all these opinions that fly around on it, but you know, here you are this far into your career. And I assume that you’re you’re still having to adapt the way you just talked about to the a very changing landscape. I’m wondering what that landscape looks like from your perspective right now.

SW (50:18)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, for me, I was actually just thinking about this today. It’s like the so funding is amazing. I’m so glad it exists in this country. Like, you know, you go to the states and you meet bands and like that doesn’t really exist in the same way there, you know? so like what a gift to be able to potentially access funding. But at the same time, it’s also like, you know, if you put an application in, sometimes you don’t find out for like five or six months. And that can mean that you

Glen Erickson (50:56)

Mm-hmm.

SW (51:11)

undergo the endeavor without knowing one way or the other and if it doesn’t

Glen Erickson (51:15)

Well, they’re built to encourage you

to do it whether you get the money or not, right? Most of them? Yeah.

SW (51:20)

That’s right. Yeah,

that’s right. And like, you know, it it it does make sense. And I’ve kind of like shot from the hip in that way with my career as well as just like going for it in some degree. But also like sometimes I’ve risked and it hasn’t paid off, you know? And sometimes it doesn’t feel like a risk at all. And it’s like, no, this seems like it’ll be a sure thing. And no, like, you know, the left turn. But you know, it’s also like I’ve been able to keep going because like it

comes around eventually, you know, like there’s always this like kind of push and pull of that kind of thing, or at least in my experience. but now is a really interesting time because like I said, I think all the cracks are kind of showing and like burnout rates are so high and like amongst especially independent artists, like tour costs are insane. Everybody’s broke. So like people

Glen Erickson (51:53)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

SW (52:13)

aren’t going to shows even, you know, like there’s people are going into debt for like one big ticket item per year and all of the like indie shows are kind of falling by the wayside with like attendance and stuff like that. So it’s kind of it is more difficult than ever. It’s also with the online spaces, like it’s awesome to be able to access potentially audiences that you wouldn’t have accessed before, but you’re on this global stage now and there’s so much music that it’s a lot of noise to have to be able to cut through. So then there’s all this cost that

Glen Erickson (52:16)

Yeah.

SW (52:43)

comes invariably with that, with just continuing. And the bar for independence has changed from not just making a living, like that’s the goal is to make a living at music. It’s just to be able to keep going and keep making music now. Because I feel like there’s a lot of people d dropping off or not able to like, you know, needing to take like extended leave because of burnout or because, you know, they’re working two other jobs to make ends meet and can’t make it work. You know, it’s just, it’s too much.

So I think like where I’m at with all of that is before I went down the path of of new parenthood, I was kind of going towards this where like I I wanna undergo a path of sustainability, however that looks. And it has come around full circle to becoming a lot more DIY for me as far as like keeping a lot of the control in-house, a lot of the touring. It’s like I’d rather have

You know, a house show with thirty people who really want to be there who are gonna be like listening. They’re all buying merch, like they know the songs, versus like a club or a bar where like I have a three hundred dollar guarantee and like one free drink per member. And even if it’s like a packed show, it doesn’t really make a difference. You know, like it’s it’s one of those things that I think there’s Yeah, exactly, exactly. Totally.

Glen Erickson (53:50)

Mm-hmm.

And you’re

And you’re singing over top of people who are talking the whole time and how it’s a little little soul sucking too, maybe. So

SW (54:11)

Yeah, so I’m I’m kind of more interested in like returning to a grass grassroots kind of mindset of like like wet back when I did all of my own booking and now I’m doing it again. I’m like I’ve I’m very interested in that.

Glen Erickson (54:21)

But does that

does that present a new challenge for you at this age, though? Because like we talked about that blind ambition, how people do it when they’re young, and we glorify the hustle in this industry so much. And that hustle like lends itself to bad financial choices and some mentally unhealthy choices for mental wellness, right?

SW (54:32)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (54:50)

And so

at this age you look back and you go, Like, yeah, I developed the skills for DIY, but do I have what it takes for DIY? Is that present in your thinking and choices at this stage?

SW (54:56)

Mm-hmm.

I mean it’s DIY informed by, you know, fifteen years of like connections that I’ve made with people and doing it and knowing what not to do. And honestly I do think that it’s like more financially feasible than a lot of things. And actually with this record, like leaning into a more acoustic realm, like to kind of my older stuff was was the goal.

where I would be able to tour as a solo or a duo act and like have more stripped down spaces where like I can actually, you know, keep a lot of the money that’s coming in instead of like, you know, it’s it’s just so hard with a full band, especially with a solo artist with a full band with rates and stuff. It’s like, you know, that’s it’s you’re basically, if you’re lucky, breaking even on a tour. so like it’s it just kind of changes things. Yeah.

Glen Erickson (55:33)

Yeah.

Yeah.

That’s becoming a common that’s becoming a common

sentiment. And I’m hearing this I mean, I mentioned Ken Yates and that was the conversation I had with him was about how you your planning of how you’re making your record is now taking into mind how again, how what’s possible for even touring the record and and how am I gonna play this to actually build the kind of income source I need out of this to sustain getting to the next one. I mean

SW (55:58)

For sure.

Yeah.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Glen Erickson (56:23)

That’s interesting to me because my initial assumption was gonna be using Matt Mays was going to a louder guitar driven version of music. So it’s the it’s the opposite of my assumption. And I’m just making assumption off of some of Matt’s own music and choices, obviously, that are you know. But so that’s very interesting. But that makes a lot of sense if you’re thinking like how you set yourself up for the next leg. I would I

SW (56:41)

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

Mm.

Glen Erickson (56:52)

I’m trying not to use the word cycle anymore because I’m really realizing the traditional album cycle is dead in today’s world, it feels like. So, but you also kind of touched on a big thing that I want to ask you about because you’ve been very open about being a mom when you were being even just pregnant and and the industry and a perception led industry. So you’re, you know, from the beginning you’ve

SW (56:59)

Right.

Mm.

Glen Erickson (57:22)

faced sexism and and all versions of it, you know, and then as a female, more than a male, like men do to a degree, but not ever anywhere near the women as far as ageism is concerned. as well. I mean generally anybody over 30 starts to suffer some version of it, you know, maybe more internalized for some than others. But but so you’ve you’ve combated

SW (57:37)

yeah, totally.

Glen Erickson (57:51)

Both, and you very publicly sort of just decided to, you know, use your music and where you were at and what you were doing to sort of say something about it, which was pretty cool and not very many people do. I mean, so the side of it that you just sort of tipped into was just the financial side of it, right? Of like now your this idea of risk to keep things going and how much risk I’m gonna weigh to keep.

SW (58:02)

Yeah.

Mm.

Hmm.

Glen Erickson (58:20)

the career going has a whole nother dimension of choosing parenthood. and I, you know, so how has that well actually let me frame it this way for you, okay?

SW (58:23)

Totally.

Glen Erickson (58:35)

Like you you made this iced tea video, which is really cool and really fun, right? And you had this entire concept and you were seven I think it said seven months. I’m so scared of saying anything right now. I think the internet’s lied to me about everything. But but you’re like seven months pregnant, so you’re like in this perfect time when everyone’s like, you’re s you’re showing so much, you know, and all this kind of phase. Yeah. and you do it with like this real rock and roll flames bikini and and

SW (58:40)

Thanks.

Yeah. No, you’re good.

You’re showing yeah.

Glen Erickson (59:05)

You’re spilling iced tea on yourself literally and stuff. So the the non-important question I have about that is, did you actually like iced tea a lot or did it end up like being a you know, a a bad thing because like now you had to drink it f over and over for all these takes on a video and then you’re spilling it on yourself and now you’re sticky for anyhow, was that end up haunting you that it was iced tea?

SW (59:11)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

There’s there’s elements there, yeah, yeah, yeah. Honestly,

okay, so the biggest this is a really funny story. So like the the video was very awesome to make. Like I was the first video actually that I edited myself, which was really nice, and I directed it. And my friend Tegan, so I play in Tegan’s band and we did like a trade where we did vocals on her album and she came and filmed the whole thing. And we did it at my aunt and uncle’s house and

Glen Erickson (59:41)

that’s fun.

SW (59:52)

I made iced tea. So like I didn’t want to like load up on like nest tea because like I’m aware of the sugar content. Like I know that’s it as much as I would like to, like, that’s gonna suck. and so I made this like it was actually like a pretty small amount of maple syrup, but like a like a decaf black tea, just like huge thermoses of it that I brought that I was just like guzzling and it was all over me. And I was like, it’s not as sticky as it would be, whatever. But my aunt and uncle.

Glen Erickson (59:58)

Yeah. Yeah.

that’s good.

SW (1:00:22)

had like there was residual dried iced tea on on their outside deck where we were and apparently like these huge mega wasps were born of this and there’s like this huge nest formed like just above it and they were like yo this is awesome like what’s going on yeah

Glen Erickson (1:00:38)

my god. yeah.

Just yeah, just set up shop over top of the s yeah,

god.

SW (1:00:52)

So that that did

come back to haunt me in a way. Yeah.

Glen Erickson (1:00:56)

That’s funny.

That’s funny. I mean, the real question about that song and that that placement is just yeah, just facing like that kind of a big question in the industry. Obviously, and this sort of happens at different times, right? Like so you see an artist do some sort of flag in the ground moment, right? Like there’s when a big artist, like a female artist, and I don’t know why the name just escaped me.

SW (1:01:16)

Mm.

Glen Erickson (1:01:25)

Chooses not to wear makeup anymore. Alicia Keys starts saying, I’m not gonna publicly wear makeup anymore, right? Or some woman’s like, I’m not wearing bras anymore. Or or some sort of version of like just personal protest, right? Which is like, I’m not letting my lifestyle choices, despite the fact that I’m on, you know, I’m in the public eye and I’m up for public debate whether I like it or not. So they don’t let those things.

SW (1:01:27)

Right. Alicia Keys, yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (1:01:52)

affect their child they make some but it it feels at least from the outside like a you know putting a flag in the ground moment but my curiosity about those things always is after because you know you have to get up the next day then you keep going and the next day and the next day and you know for you like things don’t always

SW (1:02:00)

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (1:02:19)

change right away. Like so choosing to like and I I don’t think people think about this from the outside, right? Is like for you, it’s like, does that mean that things start to change? Does anything become different when you sort of try to express your voice that gets captured in a moment? You know? So like from then to the to now, I’m wondering how you feel about the outcomes of those sort of things, right?

SW (1:02:22)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm.

Mm.

Glen Erickson (1:02:48)

Like just making that kind of a video, the song, like sharing the message, you know, talking about it openly on press or social media. What what has it been like since then for you?

SW (1:02:48)

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think so that’s that’s a really interesting take of like the flag in the ground moment. And I think it’s like what that is is like recognizing it’s like a recognition of like, I don’t have to I never had to do this. Like I was under the impression that I had to go about my life in a certain way, that it was prescribed to me. And it turns out that like I have this agency and I can just actually do whatever I want and I can live my truth.

And I’m I can do that out loud for people. And like for me, it was like, you know, I I wish I had I don’t know, like I just never I had such trepidation, I think come by honestly, of pursuing a path of parenthood while also maintaining my career as an artist. Of like, you know, I’ve s I’ve had so many

Glen Erickson (1:03:51)

Yeah.

SW (1:03:53)

Comments over the years of like people like, yeah, they’ll just disappear, like, they’re pregnant, see you later, like never seeing you again. Just like the it’s wild, even to this day, like the kind of comments that you hear. Yeah. For sure. But like within. Yeah, exactly. And just like the the lack of resources, especially for like the parents that have to like breastfeed and heal after childbirth and things like that, for like for touring, like it’s just non-existent.

Glen Erickson (1:04:03)

And that’s inside the industry. We’re not talking about the public, right? We’re talking about the people in the business. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

SW (1:04:21)

and things are changing a lot, but like there’s so much change that needs to be made. There’s like this this needs to be talked about. And for so many years I thought it was impossible. I thought I had to choose between my music career and having a kid because that’s like what so many people have said, and like what seems to be the case. And so, like, for me, I was like, I I’m just gonna do this because like both things are what I desire for my life. And there is like the celebration of of this and like this like.

I don’t know, this like flagrant sexiness of like a burgeoning, you know, baby bod and things like that. And I think it it’s for me it’s it it’s not over. Like it’s still going. And I think it’s maybe for for those people as well who are choosing this like this way of stepping out of the life they thought they knew.

Glen Erickson (1:05:04)

Mm.

SW (1:05:13)

like for me entering entering parenthood and like still going through all of these things. Like that’s what the record’s about. That’s like, you know, I’m I often will like post, you know, a a story on Instagram of like me breastfeeding before a show or whatever. Because it’s like I won like I wish I could have seen those realities when I was younger. And now I’m like I’m not going to hide it. And I think it’s like it’s beautiful and funny and exhilarating and like all of these things and like

Glen Erickson (1:05:30)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

SW (1:05:42)

I don’t want to go back into hiding at any point. And I don’t feel like there’s, you know, there’s some things where it’s like, yeah, maybe, maybe this had a negative impact on whatever. But like for the most part, like people are celebrating that with me. And like, you know, certain people coming up to me at like whether it be like a networking event or a show being like, I am so like this, this gave me like a lot of empowerment or this gave me heart for

Glen Erickson (1:06:01)

Yeah.

Yeah.

SW (1:06:11)

you

know, the way things are, or like I was very excited to see you doing this at all, you know, like for for them or for someone in their life or for someone they’ve known, like it’s I think it’s just important to live our truth. And for me, it’s like, you know, however I express myself sometimes is kind of like, you know, odd or irreverent or whatever. But it’s like it’s all part of it. And it’s all part of life and expression. And if that’s like w what else is there? What else are we doing?

Glen Erickson (1:06:28)

Yeah.

Well, I think that goes back

to what we were talking about earlier. And I think you’ve done this really well, by the way, which is this like normalizing things by, you know, being willing to be vulnerable on the platform of like the social media and show your regular life, because even the way you put something out in a song or a music video doesn’t have the same impact, not just of showing up, I think, on

SW (1:06:54)

Totally.

Glen Erickson (1:07:04)

either social media or just in person or and anywhere you go and and being yourself and and living sort of the truth that you said you found the freedom to have for yourself. And and but like being consistent, I guess is what I want to say is like the it allows you the opportunity to be consistent about it, which is really where the proof in the pudding about who somebody really is comes from. And a lot of people I think disappear from that.

SW (1:07:07)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (1:07:33)

Either because they don’t know how to sustain it or they think people don’t care enough because like, you know, they’re all requiring different versions of validation to keep going on things. And and when that disappears, you lose the opportunity, I think, to really get the impact that you’re talking about to be able to say, I think it’s keep it’s still going. I I also think it’s important, like, I mean, obviously to me, I thought

SW (1:07:33)

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (1:07:58)

Part of the inside joke of that music video was that the only way that you could the only way that you could be seven months pregnant and out was to still playfully sexualize it. Right. I think, yeah, that it has to be sexualized is the only way we’ll allow it out the door, so to speak. And like,

SW (1:08:11)

Be sexualized, exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. Well it’s interesting

when you were saying, like I actually wrote that when I I had just turned 30 and I was like speaking from like an ageism perspective because I like, you know, that’s definitely something that you undergo, especially like as a woman. But like it it now it it just like brought so much more to the conversation as I was like, you know, pregnant and I was like, Well, I feel hot, like

Glen Erickson (1:08:30)

Yeah.

Mm.

SW (1:08:43)

Let’s let’s do this like over sexualized like big like boo-boo lips and like the the ponytails and stuff. And I yeah, it was really fun and it was also like it had its commentary and you know the whole kit and caboodle.

Glen Erickson (1:08:48)

Yeah. Yeah, the whole thing.

Yeah, but you need another place

to sort of show the other part that keeps going day after day after day, which I think I just for me, like you’ve done such a really good job of that and obviously have stuck with it. Like like when I talked about the the flag in the ground moment, I think of like because I always think like in Dead Poets Society, all those kids that stood up on those desks, right? I mean, apart for the apart for the ones that took their life.

SW (1:09:03)

Mm-hmm.

Thank you.

Mm.

Glen Erickson (1:09:26)

the rest of them had to like come back, you know, after their suspensions or go to another school. And they just had to like get into a desk again every day for like six, seven hours a day. And that you can only imagine that they would be left with questioning, like, what was that all for? Right. And I think it’s so important that people are brave enough to have a moment or

SW (1:09:47)

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (1:09:54)

You know, moments don’t just come out of nowhere. They have like tons of history gathering momentum before you finally do something or say something, right? But then you need something to tell you like, what was that all for? What was it worth it? Right. And and I think especially when you do it publicly, for you to choose to continue to be a person who keeps expressing the value of what all that.

SW (1:10:01)

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (1:10:23)

was for. I think we’re lacking that a little bit. I think that’s a point in artistic expression that doesn’t get thought through. Like a lot of people, and maybe because half of us are ADHD and we just like can can blast out those huge momentous moments and then we’ll crash afterwards and not be able to follow through. But yeah, I just think the follow through is so important, right? Which is maybe why some of my favorite artists are

SW (1:10:29)

Hmm.

Mm.

Yeah. Totally.

Glen Erickson (1:10:53)

like a writer like John K. Sampson or other people who like four records in, they’re still they’re still finding a way to right to say something that means something and and sp and they’re so consistent. yeah, I think that’s really important. I think it’s anyhow, I just all that comes out of me really appreciating hearing you say like I think it’s still going. when I ask you sort of what the what the outcome on the other side is, I think that’s a great

SW (1:11:00)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

thanks. That

Glen Erickson (1:11:24)

Great place to be and it I’m really happy that that’s the way it’s playing out for you. It’s pretty cool.

SW (1:11:29)

Thank you.

That’s a really insightful way of of putting it on your part. So thank you for for that. That’s really nice.

Glen Erickson (1:11:34)

well thank you.

so tell me about the new record because I’m really curious about where you are. Like I’ve I’ve like I said at the very start, like I’ve been one of those who like feels I know you obviously a little bit because I’ve watched your releases, I’ve watched your music stuff out there, I’ve known Savannah and Megan from Tiny Kingdom since their days at Music BC, way back when, and think that they’ve done such a great

SW (1:11:39)

Mm-hmm.

yeah.

Glen Erickson (1:12:01)

Job of they work so hard in creating success in their own career, but then also for other people and that you’re connected with them in your career. so I’ve been able to observe a lot. So I’ve been, yeah, I’ve been very curious. So you’ve already sort of answered part of it, whether it’s like, is this a loud record? Are you working with a loud producer? which way are things going? So yeah, I’m curious, like what the timing of

SW (1:12:19)

Mm-hmm.

I mean Yeah.

Glen Erickson (1:12:29)

The new music coming out is, what you’re sort of hoping it creates for you.

SW (1:12:30)

Yeah.

Yeah. So it’s almost done, to be honest. is which is great. Like it’s kind of happened so fast, but also like like Gordy, my son, was present for the whole thing. Like so it was a very like a I keep using this word adaptive process. And that’s kind of what I wanted. That’s like, you know, I wanted the rawness, especially in this, you know, the the world is changing and the AI and all this stuff. I think like I wanted a very like human element to it and like woodiness is what kind of the thing that we kept coming back to.

Glen Erickson (1:12:44)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

SW (1:13:04)

and Matt, like the first time that we met, we were on tour and I was opening for him across Canada and he did this this like theater show where he started just solo, acoustic, either on piano or guitar, just him on stage for like two or three songs. And then he’d bring up another band member, and then he’d bring up another band member by the end of the night

The seated theater was all standing up and they were all like complete like rock out extravaganza. and it was so awesome. So he has this like breadth of like this range of sound that I’ve always really loved. And and we wrote a lot together during the pandemic. We just, you know, became friends on that tour and then really liked like playing songs when we didn’t have anything else to do. And I just looked up to him so much and and and became really good pals. And so we

went into this this project where like, you know, I wanted I have a baby. I want to like go do this in a barn where you’ve built this studio, you know, like there’s goats in the back and we’re hanging out and and like we’ve already established this rapport over the years of songwriting and touring and hanging out together. So it just felt like the right move, you know? and and it is interesting that we

Glen Erickson (1:14:16)

Mm.

SW (1:14:26)

are doing it in kind of like an acoustic lean, but it is a lot it’s become a lot louder. There are louder parts in it than I had anticipated. Not that, you know, I like to rock, but yeah.

Glen Erickson (1:14:36)

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that’s clear. I mean, I even

I read this is podcasting, I’m finding like it really does fall into this world of press a little bit. Like I never expected that part. But like so I end up reading so much of this stuff as I’ve been saying. And so like I read about that song Ice Tea. They said, you know, I read people use the term returning a little more to like this dark folk roots.

SW (1:14:50)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Mm.

Glen Erickson (1:15:06)

of Skywalls. And I’m and then I listen to it and I’m like, that just sounds like a rock song to me. I don’t get where the dark folk is. Yeah. Yeah, it still feels rock and roll to me. But I get that subjective, right? So I can see, yeah, I can see how, you know, we sort of frame the nuances sometimes a lot with what we’re we’re doing. But yeah, I’d be really curious and to hear how that one

SW (1:15:06)

Mm, mm mm.

Yeah. There’s banjo on it.

Thanks. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. It it’s it’s it’s yeah, like in the fall I think is when singles are gonna start to drop and then yeah, who knows? Maybe like a spring twenty twenty seven release.

Glen Erickson (1:15:36)

comes out.

So you I like we said at the beginning, you have a bunch of shows that are already publicized in July. Are these full band shows because they’re a little more localized, or are you starting to already experiment with like different versions of that performance sort of based on what you were talking about?

SW (1:15:52)

Mm-hmm.

So most of them

yeah. Yeah, totally. I so most of them are solo actually. but like a couple of them are full bands, like the the North Ontario Music and Film Awards. Like we’re playing that in two weeks, and that’s full band. but like I’m opening for Hoxley in Oshawa this week solo, and then I’m like pay playing Tall Pines. It’s the Unplugged North stage, so like I’ve

Glen Erickson (1:16:12)

Okay.

SW (1:16:36)

Hung out with those guys like a bunch and they’re just awesome and creating this really cool environment and like shows in Toronto. Patrick Bateman from Sirius XM is hosting, and so like that’s a strip-down one as well. And and doing a couple of like secret shows and like backyard shows and things like that around Ontario, and then a few more festivals in the fall that aren’t disclosed yet. But then yeah, around the fall, I have a few.

Glen Erickson (1:16:39)

Mm.

SW (1:17:02)

announcements like in the nearish future where I’m gonna start to showcase this like newer configuration and like, you know, probably have the more fleshed out version of of what that can look like, but like, you know, have like the three piece and like, you know, just showcasing the new tunes and like having more like listening room style things that I’m really excited about.

Glen Erickson (1:17:12)

Yeah.

Yeah, I I told you before I was talking with Ken Yates. It’s feels like a similar piece of conversation. I’m curious whether you feel a version where you’re a little, I don’t know, wanna I don’t want to say scared of the solo act or not. I think like he sh he expressed a little trepidation because I think he had gotten so comfortable in the the band. And but that I think, you know, this is I think something specific to someone who’s

SW (1:17:45)

Hm.

Glen Erickson (1:17:55)

been the solo artist their whole life. Some of them I realized that I’ve known like they were just the early trajectory of their career was internally just being like, I need to grow this big enough so that I can have a band, because that’s what they really wanted. Right. And then they get scared to death if they have to go backwards, right? To playing by themselves again. And other people, they are excited because they’re like, this is how I started. This is how I’ve always felt.

SW (1:18:11)

Yes, totally.

Yes. Yeah.

Mm.

Glen Erickson (1:18:24)

super

comfortable, like they can totally rock it with anybody and and and just by themselves, you know. Like like Dan Mangan’s like this a lot where like Dan’s charm is always gonna be just him and a guitar. And I can’t imagine him being anything but comfortable, even though he does really well with a full band. but there’s always just a difference. So I’m just curious where you feel like you fall on that spectrum.

SW (1:18:28)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Totally.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, I’m I love playing solo. I honestly like the biggest shows I’ve ever played have been solo just because a lot of the times you get these opening slots and like they’re like we just need like one like teardown has to be 30 seconds and let you on kind of thing. Like I think like Tori Amos. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So it’s like all of the biggest shows I’ve ever played have been solo opening for like like

Glen Erickson (1:18:56)

Yeah, true.

Pick your pedal board and run. Yeah.

SW (1:19:13)

Tori Amos or Lord Jang Grace or television. It it’s offered me a lot of opportunities to revisit that. But also it’s like it’s a different experience where like with a band there’s there’s so much to play around with on stage with like the energy of other people and like what they’re playing. But when you’re solo, like you can do more and you can play more. You can stop a song and tell a story right in the middle of it.

Glen Erickson (1:19:16)

Mm.

Yeah.

SW (1:19:40)

And like like things like that that are really fun and like you get to let your freak flag fly a little bit. So I I’ve always loved both. So I’m happy to be there. Yeah.

Glen Erickson (1:19:48)

that’s great. That’s cool. I I had

just talked with actually I was gonna say his name to you early. Had do you know are you aware of a guy named Jacob Brodofsky out of Winnipeg?

SW (1:19:59)

Yeah, yeah. I don’t I don’t know him personally, but

Glen Erickson (1:20:01)

So I’m gonna tell you I’m gonna

tell you you need to because the reason I thought about it earlier is so he got he got introduced to me through my old publicist, Ken Beattie of Killbeat. And anyhow, so I listened and anyhow, so the reason I said like he just recorded a record, he’s very much a solo artist. It’s a very lush record he recorded with the guys from Moon River.

SW (1:20:04)

Yes.

Mm-hmm. yeah.

yeah, I love them.

Glen Erickson (1:20:30)

Gavin Gavin

and and yeah, so it’s a very lush record. And then of course part of our conversations ends up being like, Do you feel pressure now that you need to go out and reproduce this with the band? ‘Cause you create this lush record as a solo artist. And he didn’t he thought it was he leaned to the side. He’s like, No, like I’m gonna play all these folk festivals and they’re gonna play with like a two piece or three piece and and then they’ll get a whole new experience if they listen to the record. So yeah.

SW (1:20:57)

That’s it. It’s like if they wanted to secure

the record, they just stay home and listen to the record and live is so different.

Glen Erickson (1:21:02)

Yeah.

But if weaker then’s was your favorite band, you have to listen because the very first thing I heard in him was John K. Sampson and the Weaker Thence. Then I find out, then I find out he’s a clever guy. He got John to mentor him on his first record and and review all of his songs for him. And

SW (1:21:06)

Yeah.

No okay.

my god. I die.

Glen Erickson (1:21:25)

He’s only

got he’s only got two songs on his Spotify from the record that’s coming out July 10th so far. I listened to the whole like private release thing, you know, that they send. But it’s so good it might be one of my top three records of this year. It is so like the minute I start listening, I immediately hear one of my favorites. He sounds so much in his songwriting. His voice is Ben Gibbert. He sounds like Death Cab.

SW (1:21:32)

Hm.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson (1:21:52)

He sounds like Deathcab, and then the songwriting instincts are all weaker than. All of them. Like even a phrase even a phrasing and and throwing in a ridiculously minute detail that feels perfectly poetic. it’s just all there in this capsule. So I’m going on and on about him to somebody else on a podcast. But

SW (1:21:59)

my god.

That’s amazing. No, I’m I’m in. I’m in.

Glen Erickson (1:22:18)

If you’re a weaker

than fan, I’d be anyone who would say that, I would be curious for them to go and listen to this guy’s new record coming out and and see how they feel about it. But well, I’m looking forward obviously to the new music coming out. And most of all, I get excited by two things when I talk to people, Skye. One is when they’re enthusiastic about what’s next, because it’s so easy to just stop.

SW (1:22:23)

Okay. I shall Yeah, Jacob.

Glen Erickson (1:22:45)

In this career, I think. everything feels like it’s up against you all the time. And yet, you know, you’ve you’re a long way into this and you could have a long way ahead of you if you just keep going. So that’s exciting. The other thing that usually excites me the most is I can tell because I’ve been around this industry for like so long. I can tell when somebody’s jaded or not jaded in the first five minutes we’re talking, usually.

SW (1:22:47)

Totally. Yeah.

The plan.

Yeah. Yeah.

Glen Erickson (1:23:12)

And you’re not jaded at all. Like you’ve talked about how you’ve had your lows and you’ve learned the hard knocks lessons and you got burnt out and stuff, but it’s so clear that you’ve found a resiliency and a bounce back and and that you obviously just are excited about your own career, regardless of all the other factors. So that’s always really refreshing. So that’s been appreciated. So and just thank you for your time and and like talking about your career and your

SW (1:23:19)

Yeah.

Thanks.

Yeah.

Thank you. my god.

Glen Erickson (1:23:40)

insights and and talking about what’s next. So thank you.

SW (1:23:43)

Thank

you. You’re a really thoughtful interviewer, so thanks for the awesome like conversations.

Glen Erickson (1:23:47)

Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Yeah,

I love doing this and I love feeling like I get to make friends over over a podcast interview and then you know, real friends, not just not just internet friends, hundred percent. But okay, well, thank you so much for your time and I look forward to seeing you out and about. Okay. Okay.

SW (1:23:55)

Yeah. We’re real friends, not just on the internet now. Thank you, Glen. Yeah, absolutely.

Glen Erickson (1:24:20)

You look like I forgot to recline my chair. You look like Jesus with the light behind you. Well, nobody’s gets to see this part. So they’ll have to just imagine. I look like the and you’re saying like the typical, the end of the tunnel kind of angelic. because it shadows out my face. It’s like I just died and I’m like Jesus wears a trucker cap, is what you’re saying, because that’s part’s kind of obvious in the silhouette. Can you imagine Jesus returning wearing a trucker cap? I bet you there’s

motifs in like southern parts of the US where I was just gonna say in not in Alberta. Or in Alberta you’re right. In central Alberta. Yeah. Where they have like pictures of like, you know, the like the ascension where he’s like his arms out and it’s all But he’s in a mega hat. Well all the Albertans aren’t wearing MAGA hats. They’re just I’m just making a trucker hats and union jack flags in the back of their truck type thing. But maybe maybe that’s maybe that’s

Me being a little typecasting. Yep. Yeah. Hi, welcome to episode forty-seven of my post fame talking point show. Okay. Of your new titled Ramble. Post Fame. Post fame. Post Alexi. you know, here we are with Skye. Skye Wallace. It’s a good name.

I was thinking that when you like one that you don’t have to just make up. Yeah. It’s just like rolls off the tongue. It’s memorable though, like not a common name. But it doesn’t sound so out there that you’re like, she made that up so she was like not like other people. Yeah. Good name.

Yeah, so there’s like

been like reflecting a little bit on the conversation ever since. Mm-hmm. just cause there’s some

don’t know, it’s just some things that feel like timely. But I think most of

we you know, we’ve interviewed a number of people now. This is 47. Yeah. Right. I feel like I was kind of hit this

place in the conversation when I was like there were just a couple different talking points that we’ve all obviously come across like multiple times. And then I just kinda had an awareness of like, where do I slot this in now against sort of all the other things I’m kind of learning. And I just kinda had this interesting, not an aha moment, but an interesting like just

In the middle of talking with Skye of like, I just I think one of the gifts of talking to all these people is not f like not forming a judgment on anything, but just listening to everybody’s take on it. Yeah. You go in with a pretty open mind. Yeah, I don’t think I ever go in with some judgments. Maybe there’s a couple times where I’ve had like pretty solid

I think judgments though of like you’ve gotten who they are. Yeah, you’ve heard things about a certain person or And I may feel a certain way about it, which may form closer to that. I mean, I appreciate you saying that, but yeah, I think I just it was kind of because I can like like what I’ve done like I can not overthink things, but I just think over things a lot. And it felt and it just felt sort of liberating to think that I

I don’t have to slot everybody in, you know, to this is where this person sits on this kind of issue or this level of experience or any of that kind of stuff. But more yeah, everyone’s got a story about how they got to where they got to. You know what I was also thinking about and like based off even just like the notes from like this episode is like you do I mean, maybe a little bit less now than like episode seven compared to forty seven.

But you do like a relatively good deep dive on people before you interview them. Or not even a deep dive, I should say. You you cover your bases in terms of like knowing about someone and a bit of their like path to where they have been. So that you can like ask the right questions. Or if there’s something like very interesting or unique, you can like make sure it, you know, it gets brought up. And I find it so interesting that like you’re forty seven for forty-seven for like having

background checks basically on people and coming out every single time. like learning like new things about someone that like you didn’t know or just like you weren’t expecting. Cause it’s just so interesting ’cause it’s like, you know, you you can do all the Googling. But like you Yeah. It’s like it just I don’t know. It’s like your whole podcast is just the whole like, you know, you can like hear about someone and Google someone all you want, but you don’t know them until you’ve had a conversation with them. Well and that’s

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And and so on point with this one because like it became a little bit of a joke a couple of times. Like I got like I just quoted things from Googling them. Mm-hmm. And they were wrong. Yeah. But not like black and white wrong. Like they didn’t hear some detail about They were like Yeah, yeah. It’s like, well, actually, you know, Devin Lahey pr more produced that record.

Even though like like I did like notebook LM research is what I’ve started to do, right? So I’m like literally asking it to search all the resources when a person has been interviewed, when a person has spoken on a topic, when they’ve been reviewed about their music or about a a performance. Like I’m pulling in all the resources, I’m asking it to synthesize. Yeah. I’m asking it about the discography and the producers and the players and the songwriters.

and I still get like, you know, I got to probably the third correction on the episode. I was just like, it’s one of those sometimes where I’m like, okay. but it’s also funny to laugh about it. But yeah, and then the other half of that with this conversation was like, yeah, and the other end of it, like I always get to feel like I don’t think I don’t think there’s been an interview when I didn’t feel like I had.

been able to make some version of a connection to that person. Some of the even even the people that I really, really knew well. You like got to know them better. Yeah, there’s like there’s a version or a side of them I got to dig into further. And yeah, I think that that’s really special too. I think that was felt a little more apparent to me. And then it just helps like the appreciation of Skye to me was that she I didn’t know

What to expect. So I allow the I allow the pleasant surprise. Like I wear it outside of myself when when it happens in a podcast. I don’t like hold my cards close. Like if I’m pleasantly surprised at somebody because I had no idea what demeanor or or what thing they would bring in, if they’re really like gracious and they’re really sort of willing to, you know.

go places or like talk about things. Yeah. So And you let know too, which I love. Pardon? Like you like you let it be known. Yeah. Yeah. And I was, you know, in this episode I was like, I had to tell her. I mean, so here’s the crux. Like ’cause you were talking before about like, you know, like a lot of this the a lot of the stuff I tried to create some like talking points.

Like I always do for you. And it’s or just like Yeah, just and so just kinda like using summary tools online to sort of take a transcript and just like Yeah, so you know enough base. Yeah, it just sort of help you be able to have a quick like I can refer back to this and this and this and this and and get a a larger understanding. And they kept zon zoning in on the same parts of the conversation. Mm-hmm. You know, which was just about, you know, her sort of

a version of an activism, though she wouldn’t call herself an activist, but yeah but just confronting the very just real things she faces in life and felt in music industry of sexism and ageism. you know, but I felt the most unique part of the conversation, which then I like really wanted a compliment her afterwards about of saying, you know, like this is something I think you do really, really well. Which was

I felt compelled to ask the question of right that like lots of people do a thing where they kind of put a flag in the ground somewhere, right? It’s like I’m gonna either take a stand with this or I’m gonna say something. Yeah. And and that thing might get to be big because if you’re a musician and then it picks up press or it picks up online talk, right? It might get bigger. Anyhow, I just I always kinda

And I told her, I said it’s like it comes from this thought I was having, which is like, you know, the kids that stood on their desks in the Dead Poet Society famous scene, like eventually they’re gonna have to go back to school and just sit in those desks like a regular student again. Yeah. But they were trying to change something. And then and this is sort of common thread to all that sort of theme, but

So like what does that look like? Like what is like how do they feel about it six months later or a year later, right? And so I just asked her, I’m like, you know, like you sort of decided to take some big swings and some bold moves. I said, like, what have you learned from that in the time since then? Like what what does it feel like on the other side? It’s like what’s the update? ‘Cause everyone can like I mean not yeah perfectly, but anyone can imagine like

When that big swing is taken, like how that person might be feeling, like no one understands or could like maybe even imagine like the aftermath. Yeah, what’s the other side of that look like? Right. And my favorite thing about her answer was like, I’m still doing it. Right. And anyhow, I just thought that was really needed applauding and she could articulate it really well. So I thought that was pretty cool. Yeah. And and I sort of had these perceptions that she’s

You know, a little a little bit badass, a little bit like out seemed badass. Out with it, you know, like sh and a little punk rock in just her approach and demeanor and all that kind of stuff. Which then you just kinda wonder, are they gonna bring an edge to a conversation? Yeah. And ’cause like there’s a lot of things about like her being like un unfiltered. Like in a positive way. Yeah. You know, but then you’re like, yeah, like on a podcast, like are there gonna be things about like

a a hosted podcast situation that she finds like need to be challenged or Yeah. And they’re they’re doing they treat they treat this like press. Mm-hmm. Right. And everyone has a different relationship to that and how they feel about it. And in a long form conversation where I might start, you know, asking questions that expect a real answer. Like, I don’t know, maybe somebody’s gonna push back on that. Yeah.

Anyhow, she was delightful immediately, right out of the gate. so I yeah, I have a deep appreciation for Skye. And and you know, kind of for lack of a better term, just kind of puts wind back in the sails kind of for what I love about doing this. Hmm. I like that. Yeah. Which I, you know, frequently need. And cool too that you like.

You find that like after interviewing someone like you don’t like have a connection with prior? Like right? Like you just you d you like specifically you never know like how an episode’s gonna turn out, what’s gonna come of it, how you’re gonna feel after, like the you know, you can you know the before, you don’t know the during or after. And I find it really cool, especially when it is someone like you don’t know or even there’s some people that you like have had like, you know, connections of connections of people with and

So you have like some kind of a grasp, but when it’s someone pretty brand new, yeah. Like it almost makes it more like exciting. Yeah. And and obviously as this continues, like we’ll probably won’t have to talk about it as much because the longer this goes, the more I’ll have worked through everybody I know. Mm-hmm. And and increasingly, like what is even happened this year, I I get start getting introduced to people that I don’t know, right? Yeah. and people that are

Doing music. So yeah, I think that’s kind of cool still. I like it. I’m gonna be looking forward to that. But so fun episode. I’m really glad you know, and if there’s people, and again, this is also really quickly. I have this I am reminded of this feeling like if there’s any small part that like the podcast plays in introducing people to a musician and artist.

I you know, I love that and I really hope that people can go get acquainted ’cause I think that she has a really strong like discography and it’s one of these people that it’s like, Who? I’ll go check the person out. And then you’re gonna find that she’s got ten years and five albums under her belt. And then you’re like, Where have I been? And it’s yeah, like somebody’s had a career.

Right. And you don’t know it. And that’s always maybe one of the coolest parts about doing this. yeah, so I love that. But yeah. okay, so I wanted to ask you about some stuff, and then I did ask you, and then you said save it for the podcast. So yeah, you said I was gonna ask you questions about what you’re into and then yeah, but then you were like, I’m into making playlists right now. That’s kind of my how I’m feeling about my

My music. My music and stuff, I’m just into and so I wanted you to unpack that a little bit. And then you said Saver Podcast, which is, you know, pro move. I appreciate it. Thanks. Good for you. So here’s your chance to tell me I guess. Yeah, I’ll give conte I’ll give context. Okay, well that’s what we need. Is I was asked what I’m listening to lately and if anything’s new. And nothing’s really that new because and this is what I was saying, is that lately I’ve just been making a lot of playlists.

And I typically don’t do a ton of new music when I’m in that era. I just like, you know, go back to a lot of old stuff and then here and there. But I did a little I’m slowly chipping away at getting rid of old playlists I haven’t listened to in many, many years. And making new ones for different like, you know, this current version of myself and the moods and things I get in. yeah, I just, you know, I’m halfway through making one right now.

And it’s called, it’s very basic right now, but it’s called Rainy Summer Mix because Edmonton has been rainy. and it’s a very, very rainy start to the summer. And so, yeah, I had that one. And what was another? I just did a race this weekend. So I had spent some time making a race mix. And I also had to drive to that race, so I just remade because my old like mountain road trip.

E playlist was very old. So I made a new one that’s just called Summer Twenty Six Mountain Drive. Okay. and I really have been messing with that one. Love it. and then I’m also I just started this one tonight, but a wine wine night playlist for when I have people over for wine night. good call. Yeah. Because that one’s hard. I find like, you know

Like tomorrow night, for example, I’m having some friends over, we’re gonna have like a little bit of wine and play some board games. And I’m like, you don’t wanna be listening to like anything too energetic, but you also don’t wanna listen to anything that demands too much of your time and that kind of a twenties is the very reason we make playlists. That’s what I’m saying. Like going all the way back to like high fidelity and doing the, you know, you know, the mixtape.

Yes. Or somebody, the concept that they all had to sort of you have to curate the right thing so the wrong one doesn’t slip in there. That’s what I’m saying. So that That’s perfect. That one is not long enough. I’m such a I’m such a successful father. I can’t even deal with it. but yeah, those are my main my main ones right now. The rest I’m just deleting. Or there’s a few that I don’t want to fully delete. So I’ve been able to like combine a couple.

What if you had a song that that was only on one podcast anywhere and then or podcast playlist and then you delete the the playlist and then realize like I can’t find that song anymore. It’s not meant. If I can’t remember a song, it’s not meant. Okay, well our brains aren’t perfect. Mm and that’s okay. Okay, well that’s fun. What about you, King? what a season actually, and it snuck up on me.

So, like not only I I had talked at length about Francis of Delirium being a new artist I really liked. And there’s a lot of new music the full record came out that a bunch of the singles that I was enjoying on, particularly like Little Black Dress is such a good banger of a tune. Okay. and then Bleacher’s full length record was about for a while. And I felt like maybe was I just too busy to pay attention. So I started just giving it front to back listens.

And I like it as a front to back. I mean, it doesn’t feel like it’s generating the banger hits like a couple of the early records. Yeah. like it doesn’t have a roller coaster on it, doesn’t have a any out. But but it’s got like a bunch of really good ones that I look forward to hearing every time. And I love me some bleachers. So that was exciting. Steven Wilson Jr. put out a new single called Preacher’s Kid.

you know, spoiler alert, I’m a preacher’s kid. Yeah. And it’s a real loud, heavy, visceral song. And he’s not sounding favorable to like the cliche of a preacher’s kid. You know, so the cliche was sort of like the preacher’s kid can just sort of like put on a smile and sort of win the charm of all the people in those circles just because they’re the preacher’s kid, but then they’re really like s the most rebellious kid around.

Kind of this cliche of teenagers that wasn’t me by the way. I was perfect. But yeah, the chorus is like preacher, kid doesn’t give a damn about you or Jesus. And I’m like, that’s a message. Yeah. Anyhow, interesting. But there’s a but. Like maybe gonna compete for my album of the year is an artist named Kevin Morby.

a guy who has been at our folk fest and I missed and then got introduced to by my best buddy Greg and has r some incredible music and then his new record, I just like it so much song after song. And the way I would characterize it is this is I thought on the last record I heard of this guy, I thought I was listening to like the fully realized version of him.

And then I listen to this record and I’m like, this is more mature. Like I’m not saying like the songs are all better or the that kind of stuff. I’m saying like the front to back version of this just feels like, this guy knows himself even better. I like that as an artist. Like he’d add some growth. Yeah. Like you can just sense, like when a guy doesn’t have to try as hard to convey even more. Yeah.

Like they know themselves better as an artist. And I I loved it. And then Shocker yesterday while I’m in the airport is there’s new music from Interpol. And Interpol, you know, had some of the most iconic kind of indie rock out of the two thousands, later two thousands, right? The Turn on the Bright Lights record and s like right

in the middle of everyone with like when they talk about like the Strokes first record or the killer’s first record or like yeah the interpole was just like right there like such a unique voice and sound. And so I was so surprised and there’s like a little two song cute yeah release that I really love. So when my cup is full of new music then we’re happy. I’m a much happier man. So we’re fulfilled

Yeah. You know, I almost got my hands on Phoebe Bridgers tickets today in Vancouver and they were too expensive. So I backed Did you go on sale? Yeah, I got pre sale. I totally forgot about that. I was I was like, actually I’m poor. Because you what, I was gonna buy them and then resell them and be a total jerk about it, which I never do, but I was going to for Phoebe Bridgers.

And then I remembered that Ticketmaster, if you sell them, you don’t get paid till a week after the concert. Yeah, until the concert. And I was like, what am I thinking? I’m a poor university student. I can’t float that. So Yeah, you gotta be committed to a long term investment. Yeah, and I was not. Sorry, Phoebe. But I really like we need to talk about this next episode. But I’m just gonna say we need what we’re gonna talk about is that she’s doing a no phones. Yeah, I saw that. I saw that, which is interesting.

But here’s the thing. I’m gonna sound like a grumpy old man, but That’s what you’re paying for a little bit? Yeah. well no, I mean no, I’m gonna I’m gonna say

I mean, good for Phoebe. Mm-hmm in every way. Except I don’t want to pay that much money to see Phoebe in an arena. No. Because to me, Phoebe Bridger’s music is nothing with like an arena music. And I know I probably said that about Noah Khan before we went to that show. But I think Noah is Arena. I thought he kinda nailed it. Well he To an extend. I mean, let me put it this way. Like

He’s got like some pretty basic, acoustic y, like sad bastard music. True. But he’s that album at least that he built all that off of, like, is really full of hooks that people turned into personal anthems. So yes, they It felt boomy enough that I was like, this will be fine in the arena. Well, I don’t want to be a sad girl in a big arena. Yeah, I call it that they mumford and sunsed it. Like Yeah.

Like Mumfort and Son’s starting off as like what they would play at Folk Fest, right? With just like not even a drum kit, like just a standing anyhow. And yet they’ve kind of figured out how to play arenas and they you know they so it’s not hard for the artist to do. I’m just saying, like to me, that’s just not what that is. It was an easy one for me with Noah Khan because I wasn’t that deep into Noah Khan history. But I’ve been listening to Phoebe Bridger since she’s first.

made music. Right? Like Yeah, I would never wanna deep into and like in the It’s sh it would just be harder for me. Well I was thinking about the the Vancouver, like the big s Vancouver stadium. I was like I saw Tyler the creator there and like he’s perfect for a stadium that big ’cause it’s like super energetic. His set is nasty. No, I know. Okay. But I’m just thinking I was thinking ’cause it’s specifically that one. And I’m saying I saw Tyler there, specifically that one. You mean arena, like in the hockey arena. Yeah. Yeah.

And it was like he had this massive set, you know, it’s very loud, like there was lights and there’s this and there was that. And I’m like, yeah, perfect. But like again, yeah, her, like the no phones I get will help make it more intimate. But I yeah, I just can’t can’t justify it. And it’s a show. That’s fair. And she’s not coming to Edmonton, so I have hard feelings. Yeah. Yeah, that’s not surprising. But no well,

That’s all cool. Yeah. We’ll maybe we’ll pick up on some of those themes on the next one. Yeah. Aye. All right. Okay, that’s it for us. Bye. Love you. Bye.