Shub has timing

ep42 – Shub has timing

shub: [00:00:00] There are these things called rhythm games for the unfamiliar in which 160 BPM beats per minute is considered the difficulty threshold, beginning to separate the hardcore and the non hardcore players.

For a 40 plus year old adult 160 BPM heart rate is considered vigorous intensity, helping move a standard cardio exercise beyond just fat burning. Into the heartbeats target range for endurance and lactate tolerance. Thank you Google. Higher fitness level runners frequently push for harder, but sustainable paces where a common average heart rate while running.

You guessed it is 160 beats per minute. And in music 160 BPMs is well known range for pop music, for music that especially affects a certain positive outlook or response. You know, popular examples. Pharrell Williams. [00:01:00] Happy Taylor Swift. Shake it off. Lenny Kravitz Fly away. 160 BPMs. There’s a theory in musicology that certain tempos just, you know, work, they resonate with the human nervous system.

In the world of electronic music, 160 beats per minute is a frenetic high energy sweet spot. The sound of the club of the digital age, but you know, long before the first drum machine. But long before the first drum machine was ever plugged in that same 160 BPMs was already the heart of the traditional powwow.

It was the tempo of the drum, the pace of the dancer, the rhythm of a story. Sometimes history and technology aren’t at odds. They’re just waiting for someone to notice they’ve been in sync the whole time. Shub originally known as DJ Shub, is the producer who noticed in his early days with A Tribe Called Red, he pioneered the beat of his [00:02:00] passion, electronic music and his passion for culture.

And the Powwow. Shub started out in small town Canada, influenced by a bigger scene across the border in Buffalo, New York, and became a world renowned turntableist winning battles and mixing vinyl beats before mixing cultures. A Juno Award winner, both with A Tribe Called Red, and in his solo career, he has become proficient at orchestrating his moves along with his

grooves, I guess you saw that coming. The metaphorical significance is kind of immediate. A man who has spent so much of his life moving people in rooms and around the world through his mastery of 160 beats per minute. Also admitting that a career like his, like many’s comes down to timing, humility, admits such things,

Passion and practice. Step up to the turntables when the moment arrives. My [00:03:00] name is Glen Erickson. This is Almost Famous Enough. Thanks for spending your time with us. This is Shub.

 

Glen: I guess it’s just Shub, right? It’s just goes by Shub now? No, the, the

shub: Yeah. There’s a,

Glen: isn’t as

shub: there’s a little story behind that, but yeah, just show.

Glen: you’re, you’re wearing a Saber’s hat. Is that a, is that a specific playoff representation moment for you today? Here.

shub: Well,

Glen: awesome.

shub: I’ve been, I, I grew up a Saber fan, so I’ve been going to Saber Games since I was a little kid. My dad used to take me all the time, so just like, uh, a b Buffalo Bills. I was kind of born into being a fan. Uh, I just got,

Glen: Okay.

shub: got this tattoo, I don’t know if you can see it. The Bills logo, tattoo. So I am a lifer when it comes to, to, um, yes, uh, New York, uh, [00:04:00] Buffalo, New York Sports Professional sports.

Glen: well, I, I love seeing lifer representation. That’s pretty awesome. Um, so was that a, was that a quick hop from where you were located? Like, I know Buffalo’s kind of. You know, easily accessible across the border. So that was particularly where you were? It was a geographical accessible thing.

shub: Yeah, well I was born in Buffalo, but I mean, I, I moved,

Glen: didn’t know that. That’s

shub: we click, we, we, our, my family quickly moved to Fort Erie, uh, when I was just young, like, I think one years old is when we moved over, so I wasn’t there

Glen: Okay.

shub: but, uh, yeah, so we moved to Fort Erie, which is the border town here of Buffalo.

Glen: Okay. Okay. Yeah, I, I have a similar history. I’m in Edmonton right now. I was born in Edmonton. My whole family’s from here, but I, from one years old, 11 months old, I was raised in Saskatchewan, I grew up like a. at the time, Eskimo’s, CFL football fan in the face of a bunch of Saskatchewan Ruff [00:05:00] Rider fans where I lived.

Who, then everybody still, uh, would ask me, oh, you grew up, you must be a rider fan. I’m like, no. And same with the Oilers. Uh, you know, was old enough when they came into the league to, to be a young boy and, uh, always identified even though I wasn’t there.

shub: Yeah.

Glen: well, I love, I love to talk with people about their whole career where they’ve kind of gotten to where they are now.

Dig into a little bit of where they came from as well as what you’re doing now. I know, um, you’re on the, on the cusp of this, of Heritage part two, uh, project that, that you have a release. I wanna be able to talk with you a little bit about that. Um, but definitely interested in sort of how, Shub came to be Shub.

So, um. You just sort of tapped on sort of where you started from. I guess one of my initial questions, right off the bat is like, your influences. and, and sometimes I think in music it [00:06:00] has a lot to do with geography. When you read like, know, how did, how did you know the guys in Brooklyn come to create the Brooklyn sound or how, how they got influenced or, you know, the Seattle area or, or, but then in genres it changes completely too.

And you’re, know, a dj you producing electronic music. you know, in Canada that seems very much more location specific. I’ve never, I’m a western Canadian, uh, I’ve almost never run across, you know, people who was like, this is my whole scene. There was no such scene. So, um. You know, I’m sort of curious how you came to your influences, you know, either through through geography or what was the thing that really exposed you, that kind of got you started.

shub: Uh, well, I would say it’s a little bit of both. Um, you know, growing up my parents, uh, naturally you just listen to what your parents were listening to when you were a little kid, right? So, like,

Glen: Yeah.

shub: my, my dad was, uh, classic rock guy. Like we grew up, I grew up listening [00:07:00] to, uh, Doobie Brothers, Molly Hatchet, you know, that sort of, uh, music in the house.

And then my mom, she was, she loved her disco, she loved her Jackson five, she loved her Donna Summers, you know, so there was a, a cool mix of, of disco and, and disco and, and rock in my house, you know what I mean? So, through my parents, um, uh, I think, I think what really, what really sparked the, the whole, um, love for, um.

Uh, like electronic music and hip hop and all that stuff was, I have an older brother, he’s six years older than me, and, uh, he was a dj, so he used to dj, uh, at, uh, college bars in Buffalo. Um, so I grew up like just watching him dj. Uh, and then I would just tag along with him to the record stores to collect music to, you know, for his collection.

Um, so I would be right with him going through records and, um, and just listening to, to, and it was funny ’cause he, he, [00:08:00] his, his job as a college dj, uh, was basically to play everything, you know what I mean? Like, so he would be playing everything from mainstream hip hop to alternative to grunge, you know, to everything.

So, I mean, which really I think inspired me too is as far as being a DJ later in life, you know, just seeing what really moves the crowd and, and like, what, what music do I play? It’s just so I, I, I applied. A huge part of my inspiration and, and where my influence comes from is my older brother. Um, like I said, he was a DJ and he was the one that actually bought me my first, he saw how interested I was in DJing and, um, at the time, uh, I had friends who were in bands in high school, um, and, and they really wanted, I wanted to be involved in the band somehow.

So I, you know, I took guitar lessons and, uh, I took drum, I took drumming lessons. And so I really thought I was gonna be that kind of, uh, you know, [00:09:00] active in the, in the music scene that way. But, um, when I, when I fell in love with DJing and all that happened, you know, a lot of the bands that were, a lot of my friends’ bands were playing a lot of stuff like, uh, limp Bizkit and Deftones and, uh, sort of that nineties, um.

That rock hip hop stuff, you know what I mean? So they asked me, they said, you should get turntables and, and be in our band. You know what I mean? So it was like a mixture of both my friends’ pressure and then just the love of it, you know? Uh, my brother was like, yeah, I’ll get you turntables, and bought me turntables for my birthday.

And,

Glen: That’s

shub: I, I bought a couple of like, battle records and that’s, that’s where it all started. Uh, just jamming with a bunch of bands and Yeah.

Glen: Yeah. That rap rock thing really had a little nugget of time that it really took off there.

shub: Yeah, and it’s funny ’cause it’s like, it seems like it’s coming back, right? Because like, I have, my, my son is 18 now and, and, and then I catch him listening to some Deftones and some stuff once in a while. So, I mean, all that music[00:10:00]

Glen: goes, yeah, my boy’s 23, 22 last year he came back ’cause he’s been, his whole music. His whole playlist changed when he started becoming a gym bro, and going to the gym really hard. And he

shub: Yeah.

Glen: with Deftones also. I’m like, I’m like, I’d never imagined this ever happening. I thought that was pretty crazy. Um, it’s funny how you said like the older brother is, uh, influence. It’s amazing how often I hear it. I mean, I had, I had Ace and Abbi on only last month, and, and

shub: Oh yeah.

Glen: thing. He had this older brother whose record collection really, his brother moved out and left his records behind, you

shub: Mm-hmm.

Glen: quite a few years older than him.

So, and then who was it? I was listening to another podcast. I, it was Anderson p he was telling his story about DJing and going and collecting records. And I, it made me think, he talked about how he just, like, he needed help just to haul the crates of records to his gigs. And I was like, made me wonder whether your brother was just employing you to, uh, [00:11:00] haul crates of albums around for his, uh, for

shub: Well, he, uh, he de he used to DJ with CDs, so I remember he, he would dj like his first, his first setup was like, uh, one of those early.

Glen: That’s

shub: Yeah, early CDJ, uh, mixing things. So, uh, yeah. So he mixed on. So yeah, he didn’t have to carry around huge crates. I think he figured that

Glen: progressive.

shub: Yeah. But I went the other way.

I, I, I went to, I went to vinyl and I tried to find those friends to help me bring those crates of records, but I never did. So kept me in. That’s the only thing

Glen: yeah. Yeah. It’s, uh, it’s, you know, you just can’t escape hauling your own gear no matter what version in this industry you decide to, uh, jump into. Right.

shub: exactly.

Glen: here’s one of the funny I, I found interesting about you, and I don’t know whether you feel about it the same for yourself, like, but from the outside perspective, like you. You seem to hit success relatively young pretty quick, right? Like, I don’t know whether those opportunities, even just the way [00:12:00] we all develop kind of locally with whatever is quickly available to play for people are at places very quickly. You know? But winning a Canadian title, right? For your DJ competitions in 2007 and oh eight, you know, representing Canada, red Bull, red Bull Tournament, like yeah, I mean those are pre, you know, those are like climbing the, you know, the ladder, like in that world, which is a world I don’t know a ton about.

So that’s why I have a lot of questions for you. But it also, I’m so interested, but

shub: Yeah.

Glen: how does one get from the brother bought me some turntables to, you know, not a terrible long period of time to like winning the competitions, finding out what it takes to win the competitions. How does that, how does that evolve?

shub: Uh, well, again, it’s like, you know, being, um, influenced by my friends. Like, uh, like I had, I had, the friends that I used to hang around with were amazing musicians, like guitar players, right? And, um, they would always [00:13:00] put me onto new stuff. And when the DJing thing came around, you know, they, they were the ones that were like, Hey, you should check this out.

It’s, uh, it’s called, uh, the DMC, the DMCs, and it’s like a big DJ battle and DJs battle each other. So I was not too familiar with that at first. And, and then I, I went out and I started buying, buying up all these VHS tapes. ’cause as of the time, that’s where you would watch these videos was on VHS tapes.

You go to the record store and they would have like a, a, a little glass container full of all these, uh, VHS battles. So I just. Started buying those and collecting those and learning from those, those, um, those tapes. And, and those tapes are like a huge, uh, part of why I decided to be a battle DJ in, in a scratch DJ turntable list is what they called us.

Um, and yeah, I just basically studied those tapes. I would stay in all the time, sacrifice going out, you know, and just stay home and watch those videos and just kind of deconstruct it and watch what they do. And, and then I would just practice for two [00:14:00] hours and then watch another video and practice for another two hours.

So it was just dedication and like, um, you know, I, I’m, I’m really, it’s really cool that they, you know, they showed me this and then, you know, it took me like a, a good year to really get, uh, to the point where I was kind of confident enough to be like, okay, well, you know, these competitions happen in Canada.

I’m gonna, I’m gonna go and, and try, try, try it, you know, give it a, throw my hat in the ring. Um, so yeah, it was just like, um. Yeah, it was, it was a cool time. Uh, it took me about a year to kind of like, like I said, to get comfortable where I was comfortable enough to compete. And, uh, I think my first competition was in 2004, and it was, it was not the DMCs, but it was, um, it was the, you know, guitar center.

You ever hear of Guitar Center? It’s like a big.

Glen: Yeah. Yep.

shub: It’s like, it’s like America’s, uh, long McQuaid sort of thing. So they used to have this, this thing called the DJ spinoff. And uh, I used to go to Guitar Center all the time since I live in Fort Erie [00:15:00] Buffalo’s right there. So I used to go there all the time to like buy needles.

And, and I used to, I remember going there with records and they would just let me try out their stuff and, and scratch in the store and people would come like, oh wow, what’s this? And so that built up my confidence. And then I ended up, you know, uh, competing in one of their competitions and I ended up making it.

Um, I won the local store competition and they flew me off to Detroit. Uh, that, that year to compete in like the regionals. Uh, where I got, I got my ass handed to me, uh, by some, some other dude that was really good. I forget his name, but OB won, I think his name was, but he ended up going and winning a bunch of, uh, almost winning the whole thing.

So I, I didn’t feel so bad, but it was that competition where I was like, okay, I think I’m ready for the DMCs. And the DMCs was the, uh, it stands for Disco Mix Club, but it’s not like if, if, if you’re not too familiar with the DMCs now, it’s just, it became like a hip hop competition. So, um. Each contestant, you go and you [00:16:00] get a six, you have six minutes.

So you have six minutes to kind of put together a routine that you, um, that has to involve certain things. And there’s like a big score sheet kind of thing that they, that judges, they, there’s previous champions that usually sit in and judge you. Um, so there’s lots of things that you gotta hit, you know, as you’re competing.

Um, you know, you gotta hit originality, crowd response, uh, technical skill, um, and stuff like that. So, um, yeah, I thought I was ready for, you know, for that kind of competition. So I entered my first DMC battle in 2005, uh, and. And in Toronto. and I came in second place in both those competitions. Um, so I was like, okay.

It was cool. I, I, I’m, I have confident, I’m confident enough to know that I can compete with these guys. Um, so then I just, that’s it. As soon as I tasted that, I was like, okay, that’s it. I’m, I’m doing nothing but practicing and this is all I’m gonna do. So I, I, for, for a solid year, that’s all I did. My parents would always tell me, um, you know, all I can hear is the [00:17:00] noise of the fader clicking, you know, because I’m scratching so much.

All I can hear is that, but you know, they, they supported whatever I did, and it was, it was amazing. Um, so yeah, they just, I, like I said, I just practiced for like a solid year, not going out like a hermit. And that, yeah, the next year ended up competing again and winning, uh, the local. So yeah, it was pretty cool.

Glen: Well, I mean, at least with your craft, you could do, you were doing it in headphones, so they were hearing just the click of the fader.

shub: Yeah.

Glen: a drum kit in the basement. At least they had that to be, uh,

shub: it was drums, it would’ve been a lot different. Yeah.

Glen: It might’ve been different.

shub: Yeah.

Glen: The other funny thing, it made me think when you were talking about the routines and how they judge, like do they judge when you say they’re looking for specific things, is there like specific things everybody is supposed to pull off and do that might have a technical term?

Like it makes me think like a figure skating routine where they all have to pull off a triple so cow

shub: Kind of.

Glen: you

shub: Yeah.

Glen: you know, is there a drop? Is there a thing that has to [00:18:00] take place in the six minutes?

shub: Uh, yeah, so they want to see your scratching ability. Uh, another big thing is called beat juggling, uh, where you can take like two copies of records or like, uh, two records and kind of mess with them a bit and, and, and beat, juggle. And just to construct, uh, it’s almost like you’re constructing a live remix in front of someone’s face, like you, by using two identical records, playing different parts of it to kind of make this whole new song.

So that is a big, like the better you can do that, you know, it, it just, it’s, it’s more of they can gauge your skills. So if you’re really good at both of those things, you know, you get put up in your, the top one or whatever. That’s how they pretty much judge you out of 10. They, they score you out 10 out of each thing.

So, um, yeah. So it’s just a point system. And then they that like, so they’re markers, see what you need to hit. So scratching, you know, you’re making sure that you, you’re really good at scratching. And they know that they’re ex champions. They’ve been around the scene for a, a bit so they can tell, you know, I’ve [00:19:00] been the judge at, at, uh, competitions, uh, past years, you know, so, so, you know, you’re very critical on, on, uh, who’s, who’s doing what and you know, the skills levels and stuff like that.

So it’s pretty good. Sometimes you get into politics and you get like, people that win that aren’t, that, you know, weren’t supposed to, but that’s with any kind of competition, you know. But for majority it was, you know, it’s an underground competition. So it’s, it’s, it’s always cool.

Glen: Yeah, well, good to know that like musical competition, politics, there’s a meritocracy, everybody has to go through it. Um,

shub: Yeah, and the,

Glen: good

shub: the higher you get, the, the worse it gets. Obviously, like everything else, like, you know, you get to the world level, uh, which I was, I was able to do, uh, in 2007, uh, I won the Canadian finals and then they flew me over to England. Um, so, uh, in England they have the world finals, which is like the Olympics, uh, of DJing.

So you’re going up against, uh, like 32 other countries. [00:20:00] Um, so, you know, you get to that level. Uh, politics, you know, is a thing there kind of too, but not, not. Not as bad. And as the local politics is, is crazy. Local politics is the worst. Regionals are the worst. ’cause then you get like radio DJs that get their friends in there to win.

You know what I mean? But when you’re on the world level, it’s a different thing. You know, you have all X world champions now are judging you. So it’s a, it’s a different level and you win on that world level, which was my thing was like, oh man, to win a world championship, you’re set for life. ’cause you, you, you, you become the world champion.

And also they give you the, the award is two gold techniques, 1200 turntables and a gold mixer. So it’s like the, the, like they’re, they’re limited edition. They, they only make two of them every year for that competition. So it was like,

Glen: Wow.

shub: what you want. So

Glen: Yeah, it’s

shub: closest I came,

Glen: the,

shub: yeah, the closest I ever came was sixth place.

So I, I, I placed six outta 32 DJs. That’s the closest I came. Uh, so I was kind of happy. But my goal,[00:21:00]

Glen: damn close.

shub: yeah, my goal was to just be a, because all the, those are the, the DVDs I used to watch, you know, so my goal was.

Glen: Yeah,

shub: Get on the dvd, so that, that’s a cool accomplishment for me.

Glen: exactly.

shub: mean, so yeah. So being on one of those world final DVDs was like, okay, I did it.

You know what I mean? So I didn’t win the gold, but I, at least I’m on the, you know, these tapes that I used to watch, so,

Glen: Yeah. Well, I, I mean, I have, I have curiosity about how one a, a career in electronic music in general. Like my, my background and I’ve talked to a lot of people in a lot of genres, I should say, to try to get a better understanding ’cause I have such a curiosity. ’cause I’ve, I’ve got this deeply Canadian, I’m air quoting, entrenched like history and ethic part, partially to do with my age.

I think of. You know, you kind of just started with your expanding your circle more and more. And it was, it was the tried and true in Canada. Like you do a ridiculously long drive to play a club [00:22:00] to another long drive and play a club, and then you just keep going back and forth year after year until the clubs get bigger and bigger.

But the length of the drive is still the same and, and that’s the only sort of way to rise the ranks as a, in a rock band. Right? So I’m always deeply curious about how this happens, and I recognize that part of this is maybe splitting the conversation a little bit because I’m also curious inside of that, if I can say, um, about, you know, the DJ world, you know, which is, you know, how you get a career, how you sort of sustain income, how you sort of increase and grow that career DJing, which, you know, obviously is well entrenched in our world, but. you sort of transition that into, in electronic music and DJing this, what feels, from my outside perspective, the blurry line of original music, right. And started moving [00:23:00] into like albums and your’re collabing with people and, stuff. So a couple of things inside of there, but know, maybe we can just start with how one just starts to build a career.

Like whether these competitions have an immediate payoff to the kind of either H House gigs you might get at the, at the best venues or how, how that happens and if there’s a, you know, a pretty direct correlation between the reputation of the competitions and, and the DJ gigs you get.

shub: So, uh, I’m gonna take you back just a little bit. Um, so as I was, as I was DJing, like I started to DJing, uh, this was probably back in 99, uh, is when I started DJing. And at the same time I also discovered producing. So I also discovered like, uh, like a drum sequencing and stuff on the computer. And, um, so those two kind of started at the same time.

Um, you know, I used this program, I used a DOS [00:24:00] program called Impulse Tracker to make my first set of like beats, right? So, um, and that basically was just, you just import wave files and kind of line ’em up. So, um. So, yeah, I started doing that as the same time I started DJing. So, um, the two, you know, were my two loves, you know, for music.

And, um, so eventually this ties into like, after my career as a battle DJ happened. Um, at the same time I was still always just producing too. I was, uh, you know, hip hop and early electronic stuff. And, um, like I first started doing hip hop. That was like my first thing. And then I just started getting into that, like chemical brothers type of stuff that, uh, crystal method, all that, uh, prodigy.

Um, so like, after my battle career was finished in, in around 2009, 2009 was like my last year I battled. the, there was this thing happening out in Ottawa. So, uh, out in Ottawa there was this, um. This party [00:25:00] happening that I didn’t know about called the Electric Powwow. Um, and what it was, was the, the, there was a couple of indigenous DJs, uh, that were setting up shop, uh, at a club in Ottawa and throwing a monthly party.

And that party was, um, was originally meant for all the First Nation students that were. Uh, at the schools, uh, at the universities and colleges out there. ’cause there’s a whole bunch of ’em out there. And, uh, so what it was, was just a kind of a night for them to kind of a comfortable space for them to come in and be amongst your own people and have a good time.

Uh, and at those parties, those DJs would, would play, they would mix in traditional powwow songs into that, into their mix, into their regular rotation of songs. And they noticed that when they would throw those on the, the dance club would get packed and people would love it. Um, so that being said, you know, after um, I got a call from one of them, I got somebody [00:26:00] reached out and they noticed that they, that I was, uh, indigenous DJ that did this whole big competition thing and they wanted me to come out to do a showcase at their electric powwows.

Um, so I said, yeah, for sure I’ll come out and play. Um, so it was that night. That night I went out and played their party in Ottawa. I saw the reaction of these people, uh, when they started playing, when they started playing the traditional p music and mixing it with like, dubstep and stuff. And it was something cool that I’d never heard before.

Uh, I’ve heard those two genres, but not like together like this. And to see the reaction of the people, that it was just, it was just a chilling, a chilling moment for me. And, and as being a producer, you know, things started going in my head. I’m like, okay, this is like, this is, this is awesome. This is something I could try to do.

And I let, I told him, I was like, Hey, I’m gonna try to, you know, I, I’m don’t know if you know, know this, but I’m a producer as well. I’m gonna try to do something. And so, yeah. So I just went home with that idea and I started messing around [00:27:00] with, um, some traditional music and mixing it with some dubstep.

And out came the first, uh, uh, song that was released under a tribe called Red, uh, which was called Electric Power Drum. So I, I sent them that song and right away they were like. Holy, this is amazing. Would you, they gave me the invite. They said, you want to be a part of this, this DJ collective? And I says, absolutely.

For sure. I wasn’t doing nothing at the time. So I’m like, yeah, absolutely. Uh, so I moved out to Ottawa and began working with them and as a group, and that’s when the, like the, the term powwow step was kind of coined of this new genre of music that we were doing. And it just got picked so quickly. Like the, and I, like I tell people all the time, it, it, it’s really a lot of music’s about timing and when it comes out, you know, and like,

Glen: Yeah.

shub: when, when, when we were releasing that music, there was a big, uh, uh, movement called I No More, I don’t know if you remember.

And it was a [00:28:00] very huge, um, indigenous movement about, uh, land and, and just, um, uh, just people, our, our people being sick and tired of having to, you know, scream to get our voices heard. Um. So, uh, yeah, that became, our music kind of became like the soundtrack to all those rallies. They used to have those, uh, they used to have like pop-up, uh, drum circles everywhere, and our music would be everywhere.

And so it was a combination of that time and, and then our music, you know, it just, it sparked something in people. And, uh, and we just started getting crazy gigs as, as a tribe called Red. We started, you know, right, the first year we were touring, I was touring probably like nine months out of the year. It was insane.

We got invited out overseas, uh, to Greece to play like big world music festivals and it, it was just perfect timing. And, uh, and then we ended up winning a Juno, uh, as, as a track called. Not long after that. And so, yeah, it’s been, I, [00:29:00] I, I’ve been lucky. And, and, and like I said, like I wasn’t really into that much electronic music.

And then when I met those guys, uh, they really taught me a lot, you know, as far as like the DJ side and like the music side of things. And like, they would, you know, here, check this track out, you know, like, here’s this new electronic music. And so they put me onto a lot of new stuff and, and it just, you know, that really helped when it, when it came down to producing this pted music.

And that’s pretty much, uh, where that went.

Glen: Yeah. I mean, so a tribe called Red, like Yeah. You mentioned already like they end up winning a Juno. They have a lot of success in space that was. Barely occupied in Canada, really? Right. Uh, any, at least anywhere close to the mainstream understanding for sure. Right. So that’s like a space that they really, I mean, you can count on in one hand how many groups have a opportunity to actually pioneer a a space.

Right. I think

shub: Mm-hmm.

Glen: they [00:30:00] definitely kinda hold that title. And so you met up with those guys. They were already doing things as a tribe called Red, sort of

shub: Yeah.

Glen: joined up.

shub: Yeah. So they were, they, they were, they were really throwing parties and just DJing. So it was until I joined, when the actual production, the original production came into their, uh, into that space. Yeah.

Glen: Oh, that’s pretty wild. So obviously you got a lot of opportunities with them. You probably like, you know, it creates some travel opportunity. It creates a lot more exposure, both probably to the business, um, which maybe showed you some new things. I’m sure anytime someone, you know, I talk to them and they, know, they get a quick schooling on so many different aspects of, of, of the music industry. Um, when things start to, as you said, the timing works and things start to take off, um, I’m wondering what, uh, you sort of hinted at some of them, but what were sort of, as far as [00:31:00] like you still having a career today, when you look back to that time, what were some of the things that really have stayed with you through the test of time that either you really learned or just sort of like got ingrained in your muscle memory about what kind of artist you wanted to be?

What were some of the, the building blocks of that crucial timing?

shub: Uh, I think just, just, uh, staying true to the art form and, and, and staying true to the culture. I think those are the two biggest things. I mean, um, you know, when you see a live show, you know, for me anyway, you know, when you hear, oh, you’re going to see a dj, you know, nowadays, you know, a lot of people go out and, you know, they just think they’re just gonna see somebody just playing records.

They’re playing songs, you know, like I call ’em human jukeboxes, you know, iTunes can do what they do. Um, but you know, you come onto a show like me, like my show. And you get to see something different that you haven’t seen. You know, whether it is scratching, you know, the, the art of turntable, um, the visuals that I, [00:32:00] that present at my show as well.

Um, and then usually I, when I have, uh, shows I bring, um, traditional dancers with me as well. So I really, I think the biggest thing is, is incorporating that culture and, and, and keeping it alive and continuing in that culture into, and bringing it to, to new spaces, which is my favorite thing is to, is to bring this, this show and this message to spaces that normally wouldn’t, we wouldn’t be there.

Um, you know, like for instance this year, you know, we’re playing, uh, I’m playing a gig at, uh, FIFA World Cup. You know what I mean? So it’s a great opportunity for, for, yeah. So, so it’s a great opportunity for, to showcase, you know, our culture, you know, and, and those are the opportunities that, that, you know, I get to have, which I’m so thankful for.

Glen: Yeah, I, uh, have a, a, a friend through my history and, and she graced me with being on the podcast in my first season. don’t know if you’ve worked with Chris Dirksen

shub: Yep.

Glen: Um, okay. Awesome.

shub: Mm-hmm.

Glen: [00:33:00] I love the way that she’s obviously done the mashup too, of like, not just culture, but you know, being a cellist and then. You know, developing this looping very

shub: Yeah.

Glen: of playing, working with orchestras and blending these things

shub: Or catch the.

Glen: very, yeah. And yeah, exactly. The orchestral powwow and being very fierce about not just one thing, but the blending of the things and how important it was. Uh, kinda really always stood out to me in the same way.

So I I reading about how you came about the, the powwow step and just realizing in your, in, in your lane, right, with the electronic, realizing how much music, I think it’s a 160 BPMs, was, is sort of that, that common place. And you’re like, how much of this was like literally the same as these traditional power steps BPMs, for lack of a better term, right?

And

shub: Yeah.

Glen: where you sort of grew [00:34:00] this like, well, this is a mashup waiting to happen, plus I love you being able to articulate then. You being able to see and witness live the effect it

shub: Yeah.

Glen: um, when it actually happened, which is really where it all comes down to. did that continue to develop and grow from there?

Like how does that sort of grow into a bigger thing? How did you find a way to kind of get that out more? Was it mostly through a, the reach that a tribe called Red had or were there other opportunities that it really kind of doors opened to that?

shub: Yeah, I think, I think it was, um, you know, a lot of it had to do with the management that we had at the time, you know, like having them, because we could only take it so far, and especially as First Nations artists, you know, like we’re really, you know, a lot of us are new to this whole thing. Like, you know, you know, you talk to some, uh, first Nations artists.

And they don’t even, they, you know, a lot of, a lot of ’em don’t even have, um, management, you know, a management team to help them get to the next level. And that’s what it’s all about. It’s like getting to that next level. And I, [00:35:00] and, and we know, we, we, we had to, we had something and we needed to get to that next level.

And so, you know, getting a great management team that was, that was hustling and working for us and getting those opportunities, you know what I mean? Like, we played some really, um, crazy, uh, spaces, you know, and, and, and it is because of our management getting us into those spaces. And so I think that played a huge part.

And I think, um, you know, kind of controlling our own narrative too, you know, not being kind of like, uh, as, as indigenous artists, it’s very easily to be steered in a certain way. So I think that staying true to our culture and making sure that, you know, the music and the culture is first, and, and keeping true to that, I think we really kind of like made these spaces, um, explode.

You know, some of these, some of these spots. The Met, you know, like I went and played at the Met, you know, and, and, and, and it’s one of those crazy art galleries that you never think you would be able to play in. You know what I mean? So,

Glen: Hmm.

shub: yeah. I really give credit to, to management that, to get us to, into these [00:36:00] spaces.

’cause that’s their industry. That’s their hustle. Yeah. And, and so.

Glen: Yeah, that’s cool. I mean, I, I hope it’s okay to ask, like, I, know I had this conversation with Chris too, I didn’t get into it with ABI as much, but, um, just knowing, like you had said, like, know, indigenous artists not having maybe the same access to, you know, the things that we’ve all now learned are so important about having a good team and the right kind of team that takes care of different things for you.

I know that when I talked to Chris and I’ve talked to some others, you know, one of the common experiences they’ve had is into the wrong people who, know, pressure people to quote unquote. Act less indigenous in order to have a wider audience or, or all kinds of pressures that just come from basically just kinda really like context blind, typical, you [00:37:00] know, white corporate people who are just trying to market it, you know, right up to like very hard to hide racism, uh, I’m sure experiences.

I’m, so I’m wondering how, like, is that sort of part of what you were talking about and, you know, I guess there’s a line in there where I’m curious at this point, ’cause we’re talking now, how you’ve maybe seen, has that evolved? Has it gotten better, um, for indigenous artists to be able to find who understand and can work with them the right way?

shub: Yeah, I think there is. I mean, um, when we started, uh, you know, like when I started with a tribe called Red, our team was, was really, it was non-indigenous. Um, so we had a non-indigenous manager. Um, so, and then when I branched off and did my solo work, um, I had a, an indigenous, uh. Manager for the first time.

Uh, but then the load got really too heavy for him at, and he, [00:38:00] he kind of, he, he was the one that passed me off to my current manager who is non-indigenous. So, I mean, I think since then there has been there, there you’ll see a lot more, uh, you know, on the management side and the business side of things in the music industry.

I hope that there is, I I haven’t really been looking because I’m, you know, me and my manager have been tight for a while. Um, but I think when it comes to the business side of things, yeah. Um, I think there is a lack of, of of, of that, um, first Nations, um, management teams and stuff like that out there. But I, I do see, I do see some popping up here and there, so I, I’m sure it’s evolving, you know, as, as, as the music is and, and as artists, as indigenous artists are.

Becoming more, uh, recognized, you know, and, and doing bigger things. Uh, I just had a friend, Stella, standing Bear, she just made the billboard, uh, charts in the States with one of her songs. And she’s, uh, you know, which is amazing, you know what I mean? And like, um, what we did, you know, as a tribe called Red winning, winning a [00:39:00] mainstream Juno Award on tv.

You know, when is the last time you’ve seen that? You know, like it’s, it’s crazy to, to these little things are wins for us, right? And wins for our people. Um, so when we do things like that, it, it’s very special. And, um, it just, you know, opens doors for, for this, the next generation. And, and I get to see that too, like doing workshops and doing stuff with the youth and, um, getting out to these communities.

And I see the change and, and I see the drive in some of these kids, man, and, and

Glen: Hmm.

shub: you know, that really that they have so much to express and so much music to express, but the business side of things isn’t there, you know what I mean? So it’s one of those things that I, I try to help and like as much as I can and as much advice as I can give them, I give them.

Glen: Yeah. I mean, access to that kind of stuff is always an issue and I think it’s an issue period in the music industry, a definite issue in Canada because just the way our geography is with such

shub: So spread out.

Glen: centers and

shub: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Glen: but then I think that obviously gets further [00:40:00] complicated. Because we have just such an uncomfortable, terrible history in Canada of, know, white industry learning how to work with indigenous people. I think it, you know, we see it in regular industry. It’s not surprising to me that it would exist the same way in music industry. Right. And I guess part of my question in there might be like, we just have such a, you know, for all the work that’s been done, it just sometimes I’m sure exponential for you, to me obviously, is to sit in 2026 and go, really?

Are we still, I thought we were past some of these things and some of these narratives and some of this rhetoric. Um, but I guess I’m kind of curious whether in your, in your experience in career, when you got to those places, even with your first DJ battling, when you leave Canada, does the experience really change? A lot like, because you’re meeting the business people and, and stuff and how [00:41:00] you’re either, you know, treated or how the business kind of looks at you or treats you or what the narratives are. Does it change

shub: I think it was different. I think it was different. Uh, like I saw two types, uh, uh, uh, when I was, when I would travel. So in the beginning when I went over for the DJ battling stuff, um, you know, it was, I was immersed into this, this, this underground turntable. Culture and, and that’s all it was. You know, people didn’t see color, people didn’t ask where I was from, people didn’t have questions.

It was based on everybody was there for the same type of love, you know, the love for turntables and the love for DJing. Um, but the second time I went over the pond, we, uh, and I went as a tribe called Red. We were with the group and we went to Germany. Uh, that was a totally different experience because now we’re representing, now I’m representing, uh, the culture, right?

And now I’m representing our culture and bringing it to them, um, and differently. And it, and [00:42:00] for, for the most part, it was shocking for them because they really didn’t realize that it, we had problems in Canada. Like, uh, like that we, that we do, you know, with, um, with the way our people are treated and everything, you know, they, they are ignorant to that, but that’s not their history, right?

Like, so they were kind of shocked to find out that it wasn’t hunky all hunky dory here. You know what I mean? So, um. And it’s weird too because like in, in places like Germany, like it was funny when we got there, they, they would call us Indian ears, which is a very weird, different term than I’ve ever heard before, you know what I mean?

So, and we kinda liked it ’cause it was different, you know, it was like, okay, so we’re, they’re not, we’re not Indians, but we’re not pioneers. We’re kind of like in the middle, you know what I mean? So it’s like they, they, they had a different label for us, so,

Glen: Hmm.

shub: and, and a label that I’ve never heard before.

So it didn’t really hurt me much, you know? So,

Glen: Yeah.

shub: but they, it was weird ’cause their culture, they love indigenous culture over there. They would, they, they have like this, they throw powwows over there and [00:43:00] like, and just out of, it’s not out of like disrespect, it’s just they respect our culture so much that this is what they feel that they need to do.

Um, so it was kind of weird to see. And they just loved our, they loved us, you know, they embraced us so well and it was very cool. But it was a very different experience. Like I said, when I went over with the DJ battling thing where I wasn’t, you know, representing my culture, I was representing the art form.

So,

Glen: Yeah, that’s a definite split. I mean, the, the Germany thing is interesting too, that they could

shub: yeah.

Glen: comfortable and not considerate tokenism in any way. that’s a really interesting thing to experience. I think that, yeah, you’re, what you were detailing about the battling thing too, right? Is like what so many people would strive for, you know? guess I think, you know, again, these are conversations I’ve had with some of the people that I’ve, had the privilege of sat on the arts council board here in Edmonton and, and different boards where I get to sit along and set people and [00:44:00] hear their experiences in various forms of the arts, not just the music scene and what they kind of have gone through in Canada, and then the difference elsewhere. but that, I think I had come to a point where I realized, like, I’m like, why do I as a, as a white man sometimes get made to feel uncomfortable, not made to feel, I, I feel uncomfortable. I make myself feel uncomfortable in certain things. And I think I realized that, I think what’s really cool that I’ve always watched is like a lot of indigenous music so freely. integrates their culture. Right? It feels like white people, music tries to like parse everything out. Do you know what I mean? And, and not be that way. And it, I’ve tried to identify as like that, the part that’s like weird that I, you know what I mean? Like, like there’s so much culture. There’s even spirituality.

There’s these things that so often just aren’t a part of, know, the [00:45:00] music that I got raised on, but it’s so prevalent inside of indigenous music is, ever been, I guess has there ever been pressure in the industry to tone it down indigenous artists and, and kinda wearing their culture and even wearing the issues on their sleeve?

shub: Um, not that I’ve seen, you know, for the most part it’s been the opposite. It’s, it’s like, you know,

Glen: Hmm. That’s

shub: we love it, put more, put more into it, you know what I mean? Sort of thing.

Glen: Yeah.

shub: so it’s been the opposite, which is nice. I mean, and, and. Uh, I, we’ve, I’ve been lucky to see that change. You know, like, uh, being out there and playing shows and from the very beginning, like, I, I always give this example, it’s like when we used to play at festivals and electronic festivals and stuff in the very beginning, you know, you’d see people out there, you’d see non-indigenous people out there with headdresses on and war paint and like, you know, that was a thing at festivals.

But you know, the ignorance is, is just them not knowing, you know? And a lot of the times it just took us to be like, Hey man, that’s [00:46:00] not cool. This is why it’s not cool. And it was like, okay, cool. I get it. Or, you know, they would hear the music and, and ask the questions, you know, when they saw the music and saw the visuals, you know, it would make them think themselves sort of thing.

So that’s, and that was a cool part of this music is that it’s not a force to. Political thing, you know, it, it makes you think without having to think about it. You know what I mean? While you’re enjoying it, you know, that. And, and that’s the, that’s why art and politics and music, they go together so well and like, because they, they, they, you get to sneak in what you, you, you know, uh, you get to sneak in those politic jab, the political jabs, or you get to sneak in what’s happening without them knowing it, you know what I mean?

Sort of thing. So, um, but yeah, like at festivals, we eventually. We eventually got to see where they all festivals put a ban on, on headdresses, you know, and that was directly from like the, the, the, the issue that we brought up and was like, yeah, we used to fight that issue all the time. There were people show, because they were showing up to kind of the, out of the ignorance that they weren’t taught.

You know, they [00:47:00] were just showing up, trying to respect us and show, um, you know, that they love us. You know what I mean? So we told them, we love you too, but just don’t wear that. You know what I mean? There’s other ways of doing it, but,

Glen: Yeah.

shub: what happened, you know? And, and we saw that change. Now you go to electronic festival and you never see that anymore.

You know what I mean? So

Glen: Yeah.

shub: look like that is cool to see that change. It’s.

Glen: I think it is cool. I think you’re right. I mean, I know that in my life, like and artists and music has done more to make me challenge right? My own, like the biases, the, the privilege, the prejudices that you grow up with, you get to me an adult, um, I’m way more likely to let you know the music and those things that I respect so deeply challenge me than, you know, some guy on a podium or someone telling me the way it has to be or what I’m supposed to do.

shub: Yeah.

Glen: um, and so it’s been a big part of my life. So I, I think it’s great that you’ve been able to experience seeing, um, firsthand where those things have actually changed

shub: [00:48:00] Yeah.

Glen: In history. um, let’s jump to the part like, so you decide to leave a tribe called Red and kinda move on with your own stuff.

There’s a little bit of a gap in time. Couple years before, you know, a lot of singles and stuff starts showing. And, and you’re producing. This is another part about electronic music that it’s interesting to me. Um, you know, again, I come from the era of like, everything’s an album, right? And, and you know, the rest of pop music has kind of started to shift towards like, oh, maybe we can don’t have to put albums out all the time.

We can just produce singles and keep my career going.

shub: Uh.

Glen: definitely in electronic music and dance music and, and you know, and probably hip hop, the first more mainstream adopting this idea of just producing singles regularly. So you did that for a number of years. I guess a brass tax question is like, how does, does a guy support himself or his family or whoever, know, in a four [00:49:00] or five, six year period of producing singles, I’m assuming, are you getting. Standing DJ gigs are you producing for other people? How do you, do you do that? Typical music business thing where I gotta do a bunch of different things to keep,

shub: Okay, good.

Glen: rolling in and keep my career going.

shub: Yeah. Uh, you know, there’s, being an artist is a different, there’s, there’s a different, many avenues. Uh, royalty’s a huge one.

Glen: Yeah.

shub: Uh, licensing is another big one. You know, those two, those two things really kept the, the, the, the, the, the lights on and the food on the table, you know what I mean? Uh, licensing for, for different, uh, movies, TV shows and stuff like that.

Um, and yeah, royalties, those two things right there. And then live shows, you know, like in the summertime is, uh, always busy in the summer. Um, this year not so busy because we’ve been on a rollout for this album. Uh, but yeah, you know, that’s the bread and butter for any, uh, musician is, is getting out there and playing,

Glen: Yeah.

shub: [00:50:00] doing the summer tour thing.

So, yeah, I mean, I’ve been lucky enough to, to have. Um, those other have, uh, streams of revenue come in. So, and streaming is, streaming is the, the worst one. That’s the, the most terrible one that doesn’t pay anything. So it’s, it’s,

Glen: saddest

shub: all deal with. I mean, all artists deal with it. Um, so it’s the biggest, I was watching a nice tea thing and iced tea said, uh, it’s the biggest pimp game ever.

You know, like they got, they, they pimp a song out for 0.01 cents, you know what I mean? He was like, something about how do you, how do you get more out of a dollar? He goes, that’s, that’s pimp maneuvers right there. So, yeah. That’s funny.

Glen: true. I mean, it’s really so like, again, sort of age related, I, when I started really understanding the music business, you know, it’s the eighties, it’s the mid eighties, and gap between, there was almost no such thing as like up and coming indie. the mid eighties, like all you saw was [00:51:00] MTV you know, hair rock bands and people living in excess all the time. So like, you either were like making the millions or your career was done and flopped before anything. And the best you could hope was that can con got you on the radio for about a year.

shub: Okay.

Glen: you know, and then their scene through the nineties, like the grunge scene opened up what I felt was like this indie scene in music and then it spread and then the middle class started to fill in.

Right.

shub: Yep.

Glen: I feel like, I don’t know if you feel this way, I feel like the, yeah, this whole Spotify streaming payment revenue crisis, know, it works really well for you you’re the multimillion dollar selling artist.

shub: only works. It only works for a few. You know what I mean?

Glen: really, really works for them, like the

shub: Yeah,

Glen: they’re making when they hit billions of streams.

It becomes ridiculous because like, that’s a machine. They might as well just go to sleep for forever. You know what I mean? It’s just gonna

shub: yeah,

Glen: money while they sleep,[00:52:00]

shub: yeah,

Glen: the rest of us not a chance. So,

shub: yeah. Especially now AI stuff, you know? Now that you’re competing now, now they have AI songs being uploaded to Spotify and you’re finding out all this other stuff. It’s, you know, now you’re competing with all that, which is insane, you know? So.

Glen: challenging to you? I’m making a bit of an assumption, and you can tell me if I’m dead wrong too, but like, it feels to me like of all the, of all the musical styles and elements that would be the easiest for the computer to regenerate. It would be electronic beats and such. Like does it come for your genre first before everybody else’s?

shub: I don’t know.

Glen: coming, coming for you guys, the first, have you felt

shub: You would, you would think that, you would think that. But I’ve heard some AI songs that aren’t electronic music that are unbelievable. You know what I mean? So, I mean, uh, it’s not just electronic music that is, is, is that AI is attacking these days. [00:53:00] And, and, but I know the, the one thing, the.

AI is great for a tool, and I think that’s where it should stop, you know, using it as a full fledged, uh, music making machine and putting it out there. I think that’s where it’s kind of, uh, you’re, you’re, you’re walking the line, um, you know, of, of, of whatever line that is. But I mean, it’s, I think, I think if you use it as a tool to get to point A to point B, just like anything else, you know, there’s, before there was ai, there was, you know, you could, you could find a workaround for anything, you know what I mean?

So AI just gets you there faster and quicker. Um, but I mean, the whole, the whole using of ai, you know, you want to get started with that and is, is a, as a bad thing to begin with, but I mean, it’s inevitable, you know what I mean? This thing is, is is a big train, big machine, you know? Now that’s, that’s so

Glen: these moments in history, right? Where the question is just because we can do this thing now, should we

shub: should we.

Glen: this thing now? And, but [00:54:00] inevitably happening over and over. So I think that’s why the creative industries are feeling uncomfortable because I get it like you, like I get it.

It’s like this is the talk for in my regular day job stuff every day. Um, you know, it’s, it’s no different than any other computer revolution that we’ve had since the eighties of, of like, yeah, there’s parts of our work that are redundant as people that it makes a lot easier. Like, let’s, automate some processes, let’s take that stuff.

I’d rather do this stuff that’s creative and, takes my time to think about and feel, you know, and express anyhow. But, um, it’s definitely a challenge for sure. So you’ve, you’ve, uh. 2020, you moved into releasing some full length albums, like you released a full length album, and then again, last year released, Heritage Part One.

shub: Yeah.

Glen: had a plan about two as like heritage two to be released here. Um, [00:55:00] some very cool collaborations. So it’s very much more, I, I don’t know where the blurry line is, admittedly in like DJing, where you’re mashing up things together and essentially creating something new, but you’re using some things that were made and there’s lots of different versions and layers to that.

I know. But, but getting to this point where you’re making an album of, you know, original stuff that you create, you’re collabing with people who you know, and I don’t know whether those vocalists like, uh, like Sebastian Gaskin, like an incredible vocalist on your latest single and it’s. Awesome to hear him sing the way he sang on that track too, by the way. they’re actually involved in the whole lyric writing or melody making or how far, like how far you go and where you end and where they begin. I’m interested

shub: Yeah.

Glen: Yeah, how you’ve gotten into the collab process like that.

shub: Yeah. So, so collaborating was kind of, it was a newer thing to me. You know, it was always been [00:56:00] just an instrumental kind of guy. Uh, my previous, um, uh, album war club, the one I won a Juno for. It was the first time I really started collaborating with other artists. Um, so I learned a lot. Um, you know, I got to work with an, uh, an amazing people.

Uh, but I never got into a studio and, and sat one-on-one with somebody and, and worked with them. It was, uh, the first out that War Club album was, a lot of, a lot of it was just through the internet. I sent you something, you send something back with vocals on it and so and so back and forth sort of thing.

So that was a great experience. You know, it was, it was new for me with, uh, working with people, but, um, with Heritage, uh, we set out to, you know, I, okay, I want to get in the studio, I want to get into the room with these guys. Um, so that’s where, that’s, that’s how we did it. Uh, every collaboration on the album, um.

We, we went into the studio and we just sat together. We had the song play, and I just watched these artists [00:57:00] just magic happen. They just kind of came up with some lyrics, you know, and I helped up with some melodies at some points and, and the, the structure of, of what should happen. But it was just all natural.

It just happened every, in every studio session it happened, uh, with every artist. And it was just such a magical moment. And I’m so happy I did that. Now it’s, now I’m like, I’m addicted to that now. You know what I mean? So, so yeah. So that was a, a, a very cool thing. So, and every, every session was, was really cool to watch happen.

Glen: Yeah. cool. So you have this, you know, the second half, the heritage part two coming out that often, you know, we talked before about having a team. I’m sure a plan as always

shub: yeah.

Glen: into summer, like you said. Um, what does that look like in your, in your world? Like, sort of how do you sort of roll out and build the hype and try to sustain it for, you know, I don’t know how long you can sustain it in this world anymore.

I remember when there were 18 month cycles and then 12 month cycles. I [00:58:00] don’t know, is it a two month cycle now? I’m not sure. But how do you, how do you roll this out and try to sustain it and, you know, in, in the electronic DJ world?

shub: So part two was, actually, part one and two are one big collab, one big album, uh, to begin with, right? So I had, I had about 40 songs, um, that we were like, okay, what are we gonna do with this? Are we gonna make a double lp? You know what I mean? Bring it out as a double album.

Glen: Yeah.

shub: but the team was like, they were smart, and they said, no, why don’t we split it up into this way?

You have content and you’re releasing stuff for the next year and a half, you know, instead of putting all your eggs in one basket. And then, you know, where does it go from there? And, and you know what, and to be fair, it’s like we had so many awesome collaborations, you know, like. I love that we split it up this way.

Each single got its shine, you know what I mean? Sort of thing. Instead of having, you know, this list of collaborators and only being able to put out three singles, you know, for this thing. Um, so yeah, so it, once we had the idea of splitting the [00:59:00] album up, I said, okay, this is gonna work. You know, like, this is gonna work better.

We get more singles out there. So now that instead of three, now there’s six singles out there before, um, the album, the whole album drops.

Glen: yeah.

shub: so yeah, so it was just one of those things that like, Hey, let’s try it, man. Let’s do it. Let’s, let’s, let’s, let’s extend this whole thing out. So now we have content for the next year and a half.

So that’s where it came out. And so, yeah, part one went really amazing. I was so happy with part one. Um. And yeah, part two is, I’m, I’m getting excited to, and it’s funny for me, it’s like these songs, like, you know, I’ve had these songs, I started writing them right after War War Club. So they’ve been in, they’ve been kind of just collectively sitting there for, you know, since 2002, 2003.

You know what I mean? So for me to finally get everything out and this, this last part two album, it’s like, okay, you know, let’s, this, this is that. And so we’re, we’re, we’re talking about putting them both together as a double LP at one point at. So hopefully that happens. It’ll be pretty cool,

Glen: well this was, this was part of my thought, right? You sort of [01:00:00] indicated like you, you know, any normal record making process, you’ve been sitting with songs a long time before they get out to the world. But, but this idea that you had 40 songs, this, like your prolificness creates a real problem then because a, you sit on ’em before things get produced and released. Now you decide to split it up in two. So you can extend kind of the lifespan of this, you know, content filling. But if, if you’re. If you’re prolific, know, what do you do with the 40 songs you wrote while, while you’re putting together these ones to be released? And so for, I, I used to work, I worked with this, this, uh, Canadian artist, Andy Shaw, in the early stages of his career, and he was prolific as well.

I just remember him coming to me with a double album I was like, why don’t we split it? I think I said maybe split it in two, or, I could hear in the songs that there was an easy way to break it. And,

shub: Mm-hmm.

Glen: his issue was, he was like, he was prolific. [01:01:00] He was like, no, he’ll be bored of those songs, and you wanna move on to a new set.

And

shub: Yeah.

Glen: just thinking with the business marketing mindset, but so it is, are you, like, was that a, a burst of inspiration or are you sort of generally that prolific in just creating and creating and creating and having kind of a, know, a war chest all the time?

shub: Creating, creating, creating. Like, I got another 40 songs waiting, you know,

Glen: There you

shub: while this is happening, you know, like I’ve been creating so many other stuff. So, I mean, I mean, that’s not a bad thing, you know what I mean? It’s

Glen: it their problem. That’s their problem to figure out.

shub: exactly, yeah. Yeah. I’ll just, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll build the content. You just figure it out how it goes out.

So, yeah. So that’s where we’re at right now, basically.

Glen: cool, man.

shub: Yeah.

Glen: that’s gonna be cool. I, I really hope that. That whole release and rollout is, continues to be as rewarding as you, as you said part one has been. I, I’m curious, uh, just kind of to wrap up, I appreciate the time you’ve [01:02:00] given me here, Shub, to talk about your career, but, know, I love asking the question of people who have been at it for a little while, uh, about inspiration, like right now, because we all start out with knowing what our North stars and our early influences are, and we want to be like them.

We wanna mimic them. We wanna be part of the fabric of whatever they were. Then we end up doing it for a long time. I, I’m always curious where you’re finding new inspiration now, whether it be, are there like new artists sort of challenging, you know, the genres and sub genres that you work in? Are there people even outside of that, just like, not even your, lane that you find really inspiring that sort of bring on this level of creativity that you seem to have?

shub: Uh, I think right now my biggest influence is my son. He’s 18 and he’s, uh, it’s following in his dad’s footsteps. He’s producing, and the music he’s producing is incredible. Um, he’s learned what I, [01:03:00] what took me 15, 20 years to learn. He’s learned in like three years.

Glen: Wow.

shub: so, uh, and he’s building his own, um, you know, vault of music just like I do.

You know, like he’s working with, he’s working with other, uh, people now. He released his own stuff on, on his own, you know, without my help and, which is incredible. So, you know, sometimes you don’t have to look too far for inspiration.

Glen: Yeah. so what you’re saying is down the road I’m gonna have to have a father son episode. I had

shub: Hey. You never know, man. You never know.

Glen: had a FI last year. Listen, Shub, no lie, like I had a friend on whose, know, late forties has been sort of like the bar stool baller, troubadour. He calls himself and he’s got this son who’s making this new kind of music, goes out to Vancouver on his own, wants to,

shub: Yeah.

Glen: I wanted them to talk together about being at these two different polls in their in life, you know, and what they learned from each other, what they’ve [01:04:00] learned on their own. It great conversation. It’s also the most downloaded episode I’ve had.

shub: Really. Oh, wow.

Glen: the cool, so it’s pretty cool. So

shub: Okay. Well,

Glen: may be, I may be tapping your shoulder for another cool conversation like that

shub: there you go. Yeah.

Glen: so I’m gonna, I’m gonna keep my eye on it, but, um, well, I appreciate the time.

Like I said, um, there’s like lots of things from me to learn from you and, uh, I find that really enjoyable and I appreciate you sort of being open about all that stuff and, looking forward to seeing the record come out and, and get some success and, and I don’t know what it takes to win a Juno these days, but maybe there’s, you know,

shub: Yeah,

Glen: another one, another little room on your shelf or another one.

shub: there’s always room. There’s always room. If not, I’ll make make it on the shelf. Yeah. Thanks a lot Glen. I appreciate it. May 1st go grab the album. Go listen to it. It’ll

Glen: 1st.

shub: first, yeah. Yeah.

Glen: Thank you.

shub: Thank you.

[01:05:00]

Alexi: Good evening. How are you?

Glen Erickson: Fine,

Alexi: fine.

Glen Erickson: I feel like I haven’t seen you very much today.

Alexi: No, you haven’t.

Glen Erickson: Or maybe yesterday

Alexi: or the day before I’ve been working.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. School’s done. You transitioned back to working hard.

Alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: In other things. Good for you.

Alexi: Yeah. It just means I never see you heaven anymore.

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Alexi: I had to hear how you were today through a friend.

Glen Erickson: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Alexi: Didn’t

Glen Erickson: you know, I guess that’s legit. You knew. Come on. She just had popped in to say hi at work. That was fine. And welcome to post fame

Alexi: with Alexi.

Glen Erickson: With Alexi

Alexi: and Glen.

Glen Erickson: And Glen.

Alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: For, our episode 42 with Shub. Yeah. Which, um, by the way, I realized last week I called.

Last week during post fame, I called the episode with Larkk, with, uh, Danielle McTaggart. I called that episode 42.

Alexi: Oh, that’s really awkward.

Glen Erickson: So a bit of

Alexi: you just our post fame or in the actual

Glen Erickson: episode? In post fame? Oh, no, just post fame. So a bit of a retraction on that. Awkward. I can’t really do anything about it.

took [01:06:00] me 41 episodes to make that mistake. I guess I, I think that’s

Alexi: a valid number.

Glen Erickson: That’s not a bad. That’s not a bad ratio maybe. I don’t know. But you know, we’re shooting for the stars. Perfection here.

Alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: So, oops. Anyhow, some things to that you wanted to talk about. I know I have some things to talk about.

Why don’t you start us off then about some stuff. Do you want me to talk about the episode or about the other things that are on my mind

Alexi: after to you King? I don’t know.

Glen Erickson: Uh,

Alexi: what do you feel like, do you think we’re gonna end up looping back to the episode? ’cause sometimes we don’t.

Glen Erickson: We can loop back to the episode.

Um,

Alexi: but what is post fame really like? It, it started us to just, you know, talk about the episode, but I feel like it’s diverged. I feel like the boundaries are a lot more loose.

Glen Erickson: Well, no, we were also gonna share

Alexi: like

Glen Erickson: music

Alexi: and

Glen Erickson: suggestions and recommendations because that’s what you and I were spending so much time doing in the car and No, I agree.

And stuff like that. Which is where I’m gonna start. ’cause we’re already two minutes of rambling into this thing. Oh,

Alexi: okay.

Glen Erickson: So I might as well start with like. I don’t do this very often, but I’ve been doing it more often where I, like, I just, maybe I even pick just one song and just let Spotify go off of [01:07:00] that.

Do you know what I mean?

Alexi: Yeah. Do you ever hit the radio or do you just let it shuffle?

Glen Erickson: No, sometimes you do radio and maybe this instance that I’m gonna talk about came outta the radio. But, um, I, you know, I get, uh. I’m, I’m picky. I can be picky. So I’ll be doing that and I’ll often just be like, blah, blah, blah.

No, I do it in the

Alexi: car

Glen Erickson: and I hate it when Spotify essentially just kinda locks into about the same five artists. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And so it’s basically like the five and the five and then maybe they’ll sprint something a new in once a while in between. But in this instance, I was just driving and I remember like it kept bringing up artists I hadn’t really heard before.

Hmm. And it was kind of in the, um, roots Americana kind of vein like, so I was listening and then it’s funny because this one that came on just felt like the real familiar, like guitar tones of a lot of people I know. Yeah. Like even a past guest, Leroy Stagger is like, has [01:08:00] music that fits with this artist thought. But I had never heard of it before. I let it play rather than, ’cause I had been in a real, in a happy skippy mode and, I stopped myself and I listened to this whole song. Mm-hmm. And then I was like, I think I really like it.

Like there was something about his voice, but then I could just hear more, like, I could hear some real. You know, I could, you know, you could hear the passion for it. You could hear maybe the hurt in it or whatever the thing is communicating, and I’m like, okay, not everybody does that as effectively as this person.

So I looked it up. I had never heard before. Josiah and the Bonnevilles, I was

Alexi: gonna say, I was gonna say Josiah and something Moon, but I was incorrect. I think it just says a songbook, but I knew it was Josiah when you were playing it,

Glen Erickson: how do you know that

Alexi: from that same song you were just playing? That’s how I discovered him.

Mana.

Glen Erickson: Oh, his cover of Ghost? Mm-hmm.

Alexi: His cover of, of Ghost. ‘

Glen Erickson: cause it’s got like 77 million listens

Alexi: on that cover.

Glen Erickson: Well, yeah. So this is

Alexi: the thing, it, it was just on, it was on multiple Spotify radios first. Like when you go to a song and you make a Spotify radio, so it [01:09:00] comes up with like a little playlist of similar, it was on there.

Glen Erickson: So I, I’ve, I’ve said this before, how I get so surprised sometimes, like, I’ve never heard of this artist. You know, maybe they’re up and coming, and then like first shocker to my system is like 77 million listens on his cover of Ghost, or even 25 and 55 million on songs from his like latest records.

Alexi: So what?

Glen Erickson: And I’m like, what’s this guy like, where is this person? It’s

Alexi: that Spotify cheat code

Glen Erickson: that they’re, yeah. That they’re. Generating like that much interest in that many listens or you know, did they go viral on a thing and mm-hmm. But then that’s where I’d be again, like, how do I not know? Like, so again, I’m gonna say the name Josiah and the Bonneville’s people should go listen.

so I did the quick Google Wikipedia thing. Oh yeah. And here’s what’s funny about the story, right? That really just adds again to the, like, there’s so many people trying to make it out there. And some people [01:10:00] have careers that are really good careers and probably are somebody’s favorite artist, and I would have no idea.

Mm-hmm.

Alexi: So

Glen Erickson: I need to stop being such a music snob sometimes. Like, anyhow, like he, his, well shoot, I would forgot his name here. I gotta go pick it up again. Oh yeah. His real name’s Josiah Lemming, and he like had a brief appearance on like American Idol in 2007. Lexi,

Alexi: oh, that’s a long time ago.

Glen Erickson: Got the attention of someone at Warner Brothers in 2008.

Get signed to a record deal again. I had to go use his real name on Spotify. Oh, the dog’s joining us. Hi pup.

Alexi: Hello.

Glen Erickson: Don’t be a nuisance. Okay. So he, like you go, if I look up his real name, he is got like four records back in 2008, 9, 10, 11. Mm-hmm. And then he like falls off at like 2012 or 13 and then there’s nothing.

And then if you look up Josiah and the Bonneville’s, then all of a sudden there’s records starting around 20 20, 21.

Alexi: Oh, so he had a bit of a [01:11:00] gap.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. And so I’m just like, man, there’s a story there. Like, I’m just so curious about the story, but this guy’s been doing it for a long time.

Alexi: He must’ve started young.

Glen Erickson: That’s a lot of story, but I just thought it was like, we haven’t talked about new music.

Alexi: No.

Glen Erickson: Or new to us music for a while and I wanna listen to a lot more. Yeah. He started young for sure. And it’s just interesting how someone can have a whole career and millions of listens and bunch of records didn’t, and I just had no idea.

But I’m, I’m like. We, we crap all over the algorithms all the time, but once in a while and then it brings you a

Alexi: little present.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Then once in a while it just shows up, you know, with something, with a bow on it for me.

Alexi: Yeah. Do I see my favorite artist lately?

Glen Erickson: Oh yeah. Visually. Oh, okay. Well maybe how are you influencing me?

Oh no. ’cause you were playing your playlist in the car that I saw that name on the screen. And I was gonna say something about, it’s OIE Lee.

Alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: And I was going to, do you know her? No, [01:12:00] but I was gonna make a comment about like, as like who would name their kid oie. Like that’s the, I think

Alexi: it’s an awesome name.

Glen Erickson: It’s the dog in Garfield.

Alexi: Is it?

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Alexi: Oh, that’s awkward.

Glen Erickson: The dumb dog. And that’s the spelling of it.

Alexi: That’s funny.

Glen Erickson: But I mean, maybe that’s, but this is a, maybe that’s not even this

Alexi: Spotify algorithm conversation. And this happens to be. All of the time, but, so I’ll give context. Heard one of the songs just on like, again, like I played one of my favorite playlists I made lately, and then it just, you know, it finished and so it went on its algorithm drive and one of the songs from her 2024 album carrier pigeon played.

And I listened to it, but I didn’t pay much attention. And then it was in my head for days. Found it again through like searching the lyrics, listened to it on repeat, and then I realized I loved the entire album. Like I play it, it’s like my quick click in the car and I can just listen to the entire thing.

I love it. I think it’s 10 [01:13:00] outta 10. And then I go to her profile ’cause I’m like, let me see her other albums and her like kind of newest thing out is that she did a feature. On Flip Turn’s Song, their new song, oh, flip Turn is a band I’ve been listening to for ages. Mm-hmm. And who I love and who like inspired a lot of me getting into more like, kind of indie alternative rock type of sounds.

Glen Erickson: Oh bless. Flip turn Then.

Alexi: Um, and I was just like, that’s so funny. Like, ’cause she is so different from them. Like, she’s a very, very different artist. Her music is very different. Mm. Like that is not a club I would’ve imagined on my own. But then I was like, how funny that they just like also had like that.

’cause I was like, I would’ve gone and listened to that song like at some point and

Glen Erickson: paid no attention to the feature. Well,

Alexi: no. Or I would’ve listened to that song and then I would’ve like, heard her as a feature and then gone and like discovered her that way. So I’m like, oh, like, you know, there was multiple roads that were gonna lead me to her and I just think that’s cool sometimes on like Spotify.

Yeah. Um, [01:14:00] but yeah, she. I thought when I listened to her, her album is so well put together that I was like, oh, she probably like, is quite popular. Like, you know, like what you just said. Like you listen to something and you’re like, this is really good.

Glen Erickson: Oh, you didn’t gimme the opposite. She has 300 listens.

Alexi: No, she has, okay. No, she has like almost 200,000, but like the album so well put together. I thought she was gonna be one of those ones where I think I discover it and then I go and look and it’s like 4 million monthly listeners and I’m like, oh, I’ve just been. Like in the dark, but she’s the opposite. And I’m like, I would expect her to have like 4 million or something.

Glen Erickson: Well, I don’t think 200,000 qualifies as you discovering it.

Alexi: No, it’s not

Glen Erickson: 200,000 people.

Alexi: It’s a lot

Glen Erickson: beat you to it.

Alexi: No, I know. That’s what I’m saying, but like there’s not 4 million is what I’m saying.

Glen Erickson: No, you’re you’re right. It’s like. Yeah.

Alexi: Also though, I was

Glen Erickson: like reading, reading her bio, the difference between like the City of Red Deer beat you to it versus like the cities of Calgary and Edmonton combined beat you to it.

Alexi: Yes, exactly.

Glen Erickson: Plus.

Alexi: But I was, here’s my other thing though, is why I feel like, and this is me [01:15:00] totally just being cocky and kind of a jerk, but I like read her little bio and it said that in, like 2023, like whatever recently she blew up on TikTok. Mm-hmm. And. Um, release stuff and then, you know, then it was like blue on TikTok and I’m like, you know what?

That means most of that 200,000 is off TikTok. ’cause who doesn’t have TikTok? Me? I’m like, you know, I feel like one of those Jim Bros who’s like, I’m Natty and none of you are like, kind of thing.

Glen Erickson: Oh, that’s what it was. Okay. Yeah. Do you know that when anybody like throws the word little in front of something, you’re pretty sure that there’s a little bit of like patronizing that’s gonna what come afterwards?

When you’re like, you know, I just came here and I read her little bio.

Alexi: Oh, I didn’t know that. I

Glen Erickson: little Lincoln, like Cutes saying to someone, it’s like, Hey, why are you over there sitting in your, you know, little office? Like, why don’t you like, you know what I mean? Like,

Alexi: I don’t see it that way. I guess I understand how that could come off that way.

Glen Erickson: I feel like it’s not far removed from [01:16:00] like somebody like doing the, like

Alexi: maybe you’re just like really sassy.

Glen Erickson: The hit Bob on their shoulders. Oh my goodness. And like almost getting towards like a talk to the hand.

Alexi: Well, that’s good to know. ’cause sometimes I’m like to dudes like, oh, I like your little outfit.

Like, you’re so cute.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. See, that’s patronizing.

Alexi: Oh, I see. I didn’t know that. Like I, I mean that very genuinely,

Glen Erickson: you just, that’s not a genuine tone of voice.

Alexi: No. That is like, okay, well that was me recreating it. It’s more genuine in the moment, but like, if you were like, you overdose it, I was like, oh, I like your little outfit.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. You say little outfit and I’m just like, okay.

Alexi: See, I didn’t know this. No one told me sorry to like, I guess this is my PSA of the day sort to everyone who’s interacted with me in the last few years.

Glen Erickson: Okay. Okay.

Alexi: Okay. So how was your little episode?

Glen Erickson: How was

my little episode? It was so cute. I was a little

Alexi: shub.

Glen Erickson: I don’t, that’s not, no, we don’t. I don’t. Okay. Um, Shub is awesome. [01:17:00] Um, Shub, yeah, like the whole. Well, yeah, honestly, like my favorite part was at near the end when I just was asking him about his influences and like currently, like what’s influenced him and he’s talked about how his son’s following his footsteps.

You can just see him kinda light up, you’s so cute and be so proud and um, yeah, you know, I’m just like, that’s just fantastic. The dream. Yeah. You know, that he’s like doing all that kinda stuff and, and um, he’s able to. Be a part of it and you can see it makes him really happy. Like

Alexi: also just like that, you know, you ask him his influences right now and the first thing he thinks about is like his son and like,

Glen Erickson: well the only thing, like what was clear to me was like that was very quick response and it was the only answer he had.

Alexi: Yeah. Which I love. ’cause it could have just sped off like a couple artists he likes right now, you know? And I’m like, that’s a big show of character.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Or even do what a lot [01:18:00] of others have done I’ve noticed, which is not reference music at all. Which I’m almost starting to come to expect from somebody who’s got 20 plus years in a career, you know?

Alexi: Yeah. Like, oh, this life event or this part of my, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Glen Erickson: yeah. But if anybody, I, I guess one of the things I walked away with is like. You see this once in a while, but if anybody that I’ve talked to or met felt like their entire trajectory was like, this was really the only path for this person.

Like, it was clear to me like that was kind of true. Of, of chu, right? Like from

Alexi: like this is what they were born to do.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. The minute he started like, thanks to his brother, like having turntables, right? Mm-hmm. And learning to DJ and mix, you know, it was clear like there was like nothing else. And it seems like.

You know, he is just been successful with whatever he makes too.

Alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: Which kind of goes hand in hand, right? Like, so I think that’s, that’s pretty cool.

Alexi: I like that.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Yeah. That was kind of my overall [01:19:00] feeling about it. Mm-hmm. And I liked that unique part of the conversation. I liked a lot. I’ll just say about like his, like passion for his culture.

Alexi: Yeah, that was one of my notes about it,

Glen Erickson: you know, and that, yeah, the way he speaks about it, it, it’s like there’s always an issue to discuss or to, mm-hmm. You know what I mean? On the cusp. Um, but he doesn’t feel like he has to jump all over it and jump. Into every platform for it, even though, you know, it’s like in the chamber.

Mm-hmm. You know, waiting to be used. But, uh, and I would’ve been open to if he had wanted to chat more about that kind of stuff. But I’m, I try to be sensitive. Not everybody wants to

Alexi: have that be their whole

Glen Erickson: thing. They don’t want to just jump on the box soapbox every time. Yeah. I’m sure. Maybe, maybe that’s it.

Maybe it’s other things, whoever knows, but, um.

Alexi: Yeah,

Glen Erickson: it’s clear, you know, his, his [01:20:00] history, his career is pretty clear about how he’s handled all that. So, uh, I love it. Yeah, I love, you know, anyhow, it’s pretty cool.

Alexi: Yeah. I also like, um, I didn’t know about that. I didn’t know about another thing, but like, on that note, um, also like the, he kind of like, when he talked about like issues, like in terms of like, you know, social issue type things like you were just talking about.

How, when he was talking about like, ’cause you know, he brought it up as in like, you know, there’s always an issue and there are like these issues, but when like he talked about the other side, which is like addressing it and all that, it was like his just like natural answer was more that like he’s kind of like combated that with like his art.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Alexi: Rather than like getting on his soapbox or like his podium and, you know, um, which is also like a fair and fine reaction, but it’s just like unique I think like. There’s, I don’t think we’ve really had anyone, like, especially like we’ve had quite a few women on and we’ve talked about like feminist [01:21:00] related issues.

Glen Erickson: Yep.

Alexi: And like in music. And it’s been like, you know, here’s the things I do or here’s my like reactions. And I don’t really think we’ve heard anyone be like, you know, that the way they respond to those things is like their art.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Alexi: Which is really cool. Like, just to see,

Glen Erickson: I think

Alexi: that it’s like, just like, it’s like interesting ’cause like people talk about like using like art as like a tool.

Yeah. Like a multifaceted tool. And it’s like that’s not a facet you often necessarily think about.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. I think that I see sometimes that if somebody chooses to stand up for a message or a cause via their music, their entire career and identity inside a music might get trapped in that silo.

Alexi: Mm-hmm.

Glen Erickson: And

Alexi: like they just advocate

Glen Erickson: like, yeah.

Yeah. And because perception is everything. Right? And people often will lock you in. And, but I, I just thought it was noticeable to me that he, that he wasn’t interested in talking in silos To him. It’s like, [01:22:00] you know, the first Juno they want, it wasn’t for an indigenous category, it was just for the art itself.

Mm-hmm. Right. So that exact premise right there where it’s, it’s about the art itself. And he can like. He can like carry both in each hand equally, right? That, yeah. One hand is, I’ve always got something to talk about, about the state of my people and, and my art is my art and I make electronic music, right?

And when I go to these competitions, it’s not about. Anybody’s background or race or anything, it’s just about the music. And he’s kind of been blessed, I think, in that his particular genre is like extremely, you know, as he describes it, kind of ambivalent in comparison to a lot of the rest of the world as far as locking people into their histories.

So that’s a, that was a pretty cool observation to hear.

Alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: And his background. So yeah.

Alexi: Very unique.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. [01:23:00]

Alexi: Yeah. My other one I like don’t even wanna get into ’cause you and I just go on the same tangent every time.

Glen Erickson: Okay.

Alexi: But it was him talking about like streaming and it not being like,

Glen Erickson: oh, well, yeah.

Alexi: Enough and all that. Like, I was like, oh, I could just,

Glen Erickson: it was just another like log on the fire really. Right? Yeah. Like he’s got his experiences that he can speak to and it just kinda adds to the truth of it all.

Alexi: Mm-hmm.

Glen Erickson: Which is kind of crazy.

Alexi: Yeah, it was interesting, um, like one of the prompts that came up, like on our document was like.

Go ahead wrote that as a note myself, but one of the prompts made a question, it was like, um, basically just asking like about, as like a fan or a listener or someone who’s like, not the artist. Like, does knowing how little artists make off streams change, like how you want to, or like choose to support artists?

You know what I mean?

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Alexi: And I think that’s an interesting question, but at the same time, I’m like. I don’t think, like, I think it’s quite old news now how little artists make off streams. Like I think that’s common knowledge now.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, for sure it is.

Alexi: So I’m like, I don’t think that’s like a really a valid question anymore.

Like, oh, does that change how, you know, people interact and support artists? I’m like, well, like obviously not well enough because,

Glen Erickson: well, I think that question is more about, I. Are you, are, are people willing to sort of challenge themselves in with the knowledge? Right? Like anymore? Maybe

Alexi: that’s what I’m saying.

I’m like,

Glen Erickson: like, ’cause there’s lots of other ways to support them. Like they used to say, oh, we’re just gonna get into it. I won’t get all the way into it, but like for a lot of years people were like, now you have to pour yourself into touring because that’s the only place artists can make money. Yeah. You know, is in a show and selling merch and all that kinda stuff.

And now. Artists are talking about how they lose money on their tours. Yeah. Like they’re like somehow that, right. Like there’s lots of aspects to where that’s Dred. So it’s like concerning overall for sure. And maybe makes you think, but

Alexi: yeah.

Glen Erickson: Anyhow, maybe we’ll be motivated enough to

Alexi: do some

Glen Erickson: No. To talk about it more and another Yeah.

Alexi: I was like, that’s bold. That’s a lot.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. But

Alexi: you’re valid.

Glen Erickson: Okay.

Alexi: Okay. Well.

Yeah. I’ll see you next week.

Glen Erickson: Hope you feel better and have some good energy for the rest of the week. Oh,

Alexi: thanks.

Glen Erickson: Fair.

Alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: Okay. Thank you. Love you. Bye.

Alexi: Bye.