Joelle May is on the scene

ep24 – Joelle May is on the scene

[00:00:00]

I remember at some point in my early thirties that I was quite possibly what the world referred to as air quotes, a jack of all trades, master of none. It may have resonated with me in self-reflective moments, but it didn’t sit well with me ever. It was only ever a backhanded compliment at best. I wanted to be the best at something in those moments when I cared more about ideals and less about.

Practical ambition. Yet in reality, I took great pride in being able to figure out the small stuff, the things no one else quite understood or cared to figure out or take responsibility for. Understanding how things work and why came fairly naturally to me. This is a long, humble brag. I know I’m getting there, but it also provided me what I needed in life.

Right, but I still wanted to be great at something, known for something. I wanted to be the rock star in everything. Lots of life [00:01:00] lessons around that. One. Did you know you can make a career outta being good at figuring things out? Knowing a little bit about a lot of things, being willing to do the small jobs as passionately as the big jobs for whatever game.

If you peek behind the veil of what makes the music industry run, you’ll most likely see an archetype that looks like everything I’ve just described, like our guest, Joelle may not to undervalue just how great a publicist Joelle was over a long period of time. But Joel embodies the gifts of someone. The business requires someone who doesn’t come through the front door with entitlement, but with humility and a passion for music to pair with the unending willingness to wear every hat necessary.

Some people rise to greater roles and influence because the passion and perseverance stay in their veins while their responsibilities grow. It’s a business full of entrepreneurial hearts. Joel [00:02:00] May is the GM of New Mortar Records, a multi-gen label, formerly known as Sakamoto Music, and before that was the Publicist plus so much else under the company name, Maude May Productions.

Going back to 2007. Her company, her business. She has been involved in many levels of media promotion and publicity, both for her own artist clients and alongside well-known festivals and music conferences and the like. Over the years, she didn’t enter the music industry as a scene stir cast off, or transitioning band member trying hard to keep their foot in the music door.

She has a mind and a heart for building scenes and developing artists. My name is Glen Erickson. This is Almost Famous Enough. Thanks for spending your time with us. This is Joelle May.

 

 

Glen: My friend [00:03:00] Joellele,

Joelle: How’s it going, Glen?

Glen: how are you?

Joelle: I’m good. How are you?

Glen: cannot complain whatsoever. It’s nice to see you. Boy, it’s been a while.

Joelle: it’s nice. I know. It has been a while. It’s been way too

Glen: Yeah. I,

Joelle: to see you

Glen: I get these like wonderfully selfish, satisfying moments where I invite old friends to do a podcast with me and then I get to see your face and talk again after a long time. And it’s not in that forced environment where I think you and I especially probably saw each other at industry events more than we saw at more casual, uh, circumstances.

Yeah. So nothing,

Joelle: No yelling in loud

Glen: oh my goodness. Talking in each other’s ears as loud as absolutely possible. Um. You’re a veteran. How are your ears? When did you start protecting your ears? Being in this business

Joelle: Oh man. You know what I, I probably [00:04:00] need to do a better job of protecting my ears. I tend to just still do the foam earplugs when I’m, when I’m at shows and stuff like that. Or sometimes I forget them and then I’m like, oh,

Glen: altogether? Oh my goodness. Yeah.

Joelle: It’s really important though. It’s something that I need to, I need to get on top of

Glen: Yeah. I’m, I’m starting to get a little bit worried, like I even was this guy who didn’t wear them on stage because I wanted, I, I loved the raw Oh, oh, I lost you for a second.

Joelle: Oh, are you there?

Glen: Yeah, I’m here. Okay. You’re still there? We’re going. Okay. I, um, I had lost, I, I wouldn’t wear them on stage ’cause I wanted to, I know. I loved the.

The feel, the natural, the everything. So yeah, so I, I’m wor I’m a little bit worried. And then, so now my kids got me these really nice, expensive ones to take care of for Christmas and I was hosting a medal showcase on the weekend and [00:05:00] MCing it, and I got there and I was like, oh shit, shit, I forgot the nice expensive ones and this is like the night that’s gonna destroy me more than ever.

So front of mind. And then I just thought, man, if we’ve always seen each other at gigs and showcases and shows, I just thought you must, um, and you were like, we have punk rock person growing up,

Joelle: yeah,

Glen: right? I thought so.

Joelle: I’m still a punk rock person.

Glen: Yeah. I didn’t, I didn’t mean to frame that like, you are no longer because you’re a grownup or anything, but that’s like, that’s kind of where your passionate roots started, right?

Yeah.

Joelle: Absolutely. Even though I have a history of working more in folk and country,

Glen: Yeah, I mean, that’s one of the things I wanted to ask you about today. So Joellele, you like, one of the reasons besides just really wanting to talk to you and, and get your story and perspective on your career in music and, and music industry stuff in general, since you’ve been an [00:06:00] industry person for so long, but also just, you’ve obviously had some big recent changes that I think are really exciting.

I wanted to talk to you about that with your position, with this new record label imprint. And,

Joelle: Yep.

Glen: but I also like to, I also like to find out the backstory of people and you and I, I don’t think I’ve ever talked about your backstory with you or had. A chat about where you came from, you know, I mean, we go, we go all the way back to when I was in a band.

So 2007, I don’t know, 2008 maybe, when, and, and, but I somehow knew that you were a punk rock person growing up. So why don’t we go back there and tell me sort of what was, what was the, the magnetic force of music in your life? ’cause I don’t know whether some people end up in the industry after pursuing, possibly playing an instrument or being in bands or stuff.

And some people just are adjacent and have those [00:07:00] skill sets and fall into it. So I’m curious, kind of the very young, Joelle, what was, what was the nickname of Rock and Roll for you?

Joelle: Yeah, and I actually kind of did it the backwards where I worked in the industry for 20 years and then got in a band.

Glen: Oh, that’s cool.

Joelle: But, um, initially, yeah, initially, um, I don’t know. I, I think I always had a passion for music, um, just growing up, you know, my mom, um, and my brother and I would go on little trips, um, day trips or whatever, and my mom would always have the radio on the oldies station and we, and she would be singing along with tracks and, and I learned, of course, a bunch of those.

And that probably, that probably is what started just like singing along in the car with my mom to the oldies. Um, then she really encouraged that I took piano lessons when I was a kid, um, you know, learned how to play. And I think the first time that she ever bought me concert tickets. Um, for my birthday was for my 13th birthday [00:08:00] and she bought me tickets to another roadside attraction

Glen: Oh wow.

Joelle: yeah, yeah.

It was like the first, the first version, the first time it toured through. And um, and I took two of my friends from school they were, you know, they were, they were not nearly as into music as I was into, they were into it enough to be like, this is fun. But they were not so into it that by the end of the day, you know, ’cause it was an all day festival, by the end of the day they were, you know, sitting up on the grass and kind of like, oh, we’re tired, we don’t really care.

And I was like, but the

Glen: Yeah, I was gonna say you’ve been waiting all day just to, to see the hip.

Joelle: waiting all day just for this moment. And so, and I went down and I climbed into the pit basically. And I weaved my way through

Glen: Oh, I love it

Joelle: Ducked between legs and stuff like that and got up to the front barriers and uh, and had my, that ah, moment,[00:09:00]

Glen: when the.

Joelle: like wow, I love

Glen: When the whole crowd would start going up and down to hundredth Meridian, like, um, whenever they

Joelle: Yeah.

Glen: it in. That was really great. Now, was the first another roadside attraction? Was that the one with Oh, midnight Oil, or was that the second year? Midnight,

Joelle: was the one with um,

Glen: because I heard

Joelle: ’cause I went to both, I went to a couple of them so I might get the bands a little bit confused, but I’m pretty sure Ziggy Marley

Glen: Oh, okay.

Joelle: I remember Matthew Sweet was a thing back then.

Glen: Yeah, that was the first one. I think you’re right.

Joelle: blues Traveler was another

Glen: Okay. Oh really?

Joelle: band.

Glen: Yeah. Okay, so I’m a total, oh no, you’re right. Okay. You just helped me piece it together. This is awesome. So I went to the first one where they have Big Valley in Craven, the big country festival in Saskatchewan. So they use that whole area and stage.

For another roadside [00:10:00] attraction, but that was the year with Blues Traveler. I think that was number one. You’re right. Number two, I went to in Edmonton, and that was at the old football

Joelle: yep,

Glen: stadium that was beside Commonwealth. Um, and shoot, I’m missing, was it Hothouse Flowers was on that. There was, anyhow, there was, uh, a real interesting lineup, but

Joelle: Dorin bands on

Glen: yeah,

Joelle: like the Inbreds and Rios Statics maybe were on

Glen: yeah, some of the, the extreme Canadian indie bands that really kind of made a difference. Um, so that’s the first, would you call that like if you’re doing trivia, are you calling that your first concert?

Joelle: You know, as I said that, I was like, that may have been the, the one that really impacted on me. But actually, no. My first concert was New Kids on the

Glen: Oh, see, that’s good trivia too. That one. That’s pretty great.

Joelle: Yeah, was my first concert. I think I was like nine years old or something like that. [00:11:00] And, uh, I just screamed the whole

Glen: Yeah,

Joelle: as, as you do.

Glen: I, you know, it feels like, do you think we’re in the 90 percents that most kids’ first concerts are in an arena? It feels like most people’s first true concert, they call their first concert so often is some big act that was coming through that, that their parents kinda decided to let them go.

Joelle: I bet you that is because I mean, when you’re a kid, what other venues do you have when a lot of music shows happen in bars and

Glen: Yeah,

Joelle: that. Right.

Glen: yeah,

Joelle: believe I also saw Fred Penner as a little kid. Um, my mom brought me to that show when I was

Glen: yeah. I guess that counts.

Joelle: one. But yeah, I still count new

Glen: Well,

Joelle: block as the first one because I don’t actually remember the Fred Penner

Glen: there you go.

Joelle: I do remember loving Fred Penner as a kid and watching a show all the

Glen: But you gotta have your trivia answer at least handy and, and narrow that down. ’cause it seems to come up enough times in our lifetime. [00:12:00] Okay, so that’s your first show. You’re in your young teens, uh, you’re raging in a mosh pit. Um,

Joelle: Yep.

Glen: I, I’ll just so I can frame this for people, ’cause I remember this really distinctly.

So like, it’s tragically hip playing essentially huge outdoor venue. Like, uh, so massive crowds down, basically just what you would see in an arena, right as the floor thing. It’s all floor. So everybody’s floor. And I distinctly remember, so you’re 13, I think I was like 20 or 21. So now we can do fast math on our age difference, but um.

But I distinctly remember the absolute flood coming from the beer garden as soon as they started playing and just pushing their way into what I already thought was a pretty full crowd near the front. And it was just straight push of all these guys from the beer garden, which I remember being like, that kind of looks like that sucks, but um, but you at,

Joelle: was the [00:13:00] advantage of being 13 because I was small and little and I could, you know, and I was a kid, so people weren’t being awful to me. Right.

Glen: yeah. ’cause we’re still Canadians at a rock show. People are gonna be nice to you. That’s pretty awesome. So that’s a great picture. I just had to frame that picture a little bit better. ’cause I think that’s a awesome picture. So you’re into it right away. And so what, what kinda was the path of loving music from that point on?

Were you trying to go to more shows or?

Joelle: Yeah, well I definitely started going to, to concerts as much as I possibly could. Um, and then of course once I was of age and, and able to go and see bands and bars and things like that, that was a regular thing that I did. I didn’t work in music initially. I actually started out my career in the oil and gas field.

’cause growing up in Alberta. You know, it,

Glen: Mm-hmm.

Joelle: that’s what happened. And I did that for, um, almost a decade, probably about nine years

Glen: Did what? Exactly.

Joelle: I did land [00:14:00] administration leasing, basically negotiating with, with people to have well sites on their

Glen: Okay.

Joelle: or pipelines across their land and all of the regulatory approvals and everything that is required, uh, around that. And I did that for a long time. And it was just, I just sort of happened into it really. I started out as a receptionist, you know, and, and worked my way up in that job. And then suddenly, almost a decade had gone by and I was like, what do I actually wanna do with

Glen: Mm.

Joelle: This is not how I intended things to be.

I didn’t wanna just be lady Joelle forever.

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: Um, you know, I always pictured myself doing something. I don’t know. It’s just something bigger and more exciting, I

Glen: More. More than being really good with contracts and forms. Probably.

Joelle: That is an advantage to me

Glen: I was gonna say, there’s a bit of a crossover for sure. Yeah. Crossover

Joelle: for sure. Or negotiating, dealing with difficult people, those sorts of things.

Glen: in the music business.

Joelle: oil and

Glen: Come on.

Joelle: transfer.

Glen: Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent.[00:15:00]

Joelle: Right. The thing I notice about it too is that the more you advance in the music business, the more bullshit have to endure.

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: thought when I first started out in the indie business that I was like, oh, when I get more up into the commercial business, everything will just be easier. not true.

Glen: You think that’s, ’cause we make an assumption about it must be a, a more well-oiled machine and a better machine and people aren’t as uptight. Everyone’s just doing their job or it, you know, all of that. Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting.

Joelle: because everybody at the higher up levels too, also, they’re just making it up as they go along too, and the stakes are higher. So,

Glen: Yeah. That’s,

Joelle: yeah.

Glen: yeah.

Joelle: I, I, um, I did the oil and gas thing for so long, and then, I guess it would’ve been probably about 2006, um, early 2007 that, um, uh. I with some friends of mine, the Velo Brothers, you know them quite well. Um, Sheldon Velo [00:16:00] and Jason Velo were in a band called Poly Jeers,

Glen: Yep.

Joelle: And they had, you know, and I was often going to their shows and helping them load gear and all sorts of, you know, helping themselves CDs and whatnot. And they had, um, they had hired a publicist, her name was Patty McNeil. Um, she was an old, uh, radio per radio person, radio personality from Montreal. And she’d moved to

Glen: Yep.

Joelle: and they hired her as, as their publicist. And I, that was the first time that I ever actually found out that publicist was a job, basically, you know, music publicist specifically, right. And when I heard about that, I thought, crap, that’s what I wanna do.

I didn’t even know that was something, something people could get paid for. But it was like, I found my calling

Glen: Hmm.

Joelle: when I discovered that and I was like, people would pay me to just to talk nicely about their music and get media coverage for it. Like, I can handle that, no problem. And so I started my business and Patty, [00:17:00] she, she helped me out.

I call her my mentor. We, I think we only had maybe a few conversations where I said, think this is what I need to do. And she was like, yeah, that’s what you do. So,

Glen: I guess that

Joelle: and

Glen: counts for a mentor.

Joelle: She did give me, my first client, she did, she had, ’cause you know, she was getting lots of inquiries and couldn’t handle them all. So she did hand over my first client, which was a, uh, a guy named Billy Manzi, who lived in Calgary for a few years and was a bit crazy, probably still is a little bit crazy nice guy.

But a bit. A bit off kilter in some ways. And so that was, uh, it was, it was like from the frying pan into the fire, you know?

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: But it was fun and I enjoyed it, and I kept doing it.

Glen: Yeah. So what were the parts about publicity? I’ve, I’ve talked to Jen Fritz this season,

Joelle: Mm-hmm.

Glen: and I, I’ve always had a real special place for the publicist. Um, it was one of the first things I think I also [00:18:00] learned how important it was, uh, really early with my own band, right, of Ken Beatie was our publicist.

And, and I realized in that time when, and everybody I think goes through this as an artist, you start to get exposed to like, how are people getting these things actually done? And then you find out, oh, people have a team, for lack of a better term. Um, ’cause not everybody does everything when you’re an, an indie.

Um, so you start putting together people who do different things and it’s usually just determined by who you can afford, um, at, at first coming outta the gate. But I noticed, you know, when I was debating agent manager. And the legwork that, uh, someone like Ken could do, um, for our band and just doing what we really needed.

That first stage was the proper channels of exposure. And then you figure out yourself how to capitalize on them. But, how important that was. So I, I’m curious in those early days and the kind of artists that you [00:19:00] were working with, what were the aspects of publicity that were really kind of taking up most of your work to, to be effective?

Joelle: Um, I suppose I, in the beginning I started out, it was a lot of, it was a lot of independent media. It was a lot of community and campus radio. I did, you know, I sent a, I used to do a campaign, know, send out a press

Glen: Yep.

Joelle: I would mail out 200 CDs to different, to reviewers to, you know, all to Canadian radio on the campus and community level.

Not so much on the commercial level with the indie bands, but, and then, you know, local newspapers back in that time, local newspapers had entertainment reporters back then. So if you had a band coming through with a show, you’d call that person up and you’d hopefully get a little article written about your upcoming show.

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: You know, it was a lot easier and there was a lot more media back then too. It also was sort of as I got going. Um, so did the, the time of the [00:20:00] blogs, of the music blogs. Um, and there were so, so many of

Glen: Yeah. That was the big shift,

Joelle: of outreach to

Glen: right? That was the big shift because the, the, the print equivalent of blogs was maybe like the street rags that every major city had, at least. Right. So they were kind of in between the zines, which would be probably only the biggest cities in Canada, probably really had really active zine developers, um, I would guess, but.

Joelle: And those were usually in a, in a

Glen: Niche. Super niche, super niche and generally really shitty. But I guess that was part of the charm of a zine. But, um, but the street rags, like in Emiton we had too, we were lucky to have both View Weekly and C Magazine and, and for a while the Georgia Strait, although it really evolved into a more of a publication than the early days.

But Exclaim got their start being a much smaller publication. But all these cities had those things,

Joelle: back in the

Glen: [00:21:00] bee root and, uh, Prairie Dog. And I was around in Regina when they started the Prairie Dog. Um,

Joelle: Yeah.

Glen: so those were really, yeah, the other place that preceded the evolution into, into blogs. But I, let me ask you this,

Joelle: Yep.

Glen: you said like you went straight from maybe I don’t want to do this anymore, you know, in the oil and gas industry to, You know this, this meeting and this sort of like aha moment of like, oh, look what these people are doing over here. Which I’m guessing had the attraction that it was in music too. That obviously had a real luster to you. But then you said like you just started your own company and just started doing it.

Okay. That’s where it falls off and is not normal. So, you know, and I’m wondering if it was just the era or the time or was there nowhere to go do that work for somebody? Did that even cross your mind as an option? Like, I need to go and do [00:22:00] this, you know, for a label or for a, another junior, a publicist that I an apprentice with or?

Joelle: You know, it probably wasn’t until I was more into it that I, that I realized that those could be, you know, jobs that I could get or anything like that. I, it didn’t even cross my mind when it first, know, when publicity first came across my plate, it, I jumped on it so hard and so much, and I was so passionate about it that it, it, I didn’t even think about any other way of doing it.

I was just like, this is what I’m gonna do. Tunnel vision right into

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: I started, started the business. I still worked in oil and I, I quit my full-time job in oil and gas. And for the next year, I just worked contract stuff in oil and gas, and I worked three days a week. And the rest of the time I was building up the business.

And

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: so it was only under a year that I, that I continued doing that. And then I. went full force into mod made promotions, um, in order to facilitate that because yeah, it was crazy and a [00:23:00] lot of people were like, wow, I can’t believe you’re doing this. You might be a little crazy. Why don’t you just stick with making good money? Well, I, I sold my house in Calgary, um, and I moved into my camper van and I started touring around with bands and, um, obviously reducing my, my, um, living

Glen: Yeah, drop the overhead. So I love that. I love that, Joelle, because. Like those are classic stories of artists, right? They make some big sacrifice. They decide to go all in on something. And honestly, that one choice, despite how many artists are adding music to Spotify every day, that one choice I feel is still responsible for weeding out 75% of the people who want to chase music is, am I gonna go all in?

Am I gonna sell my house and live in my van instead for a while? Um, but you hear that from bands all the time. You don’t hear that from somebody who pursued the, [00:24:00] your, your side of it. So

Joelle: Yeah.

Glen: that’s really cool. Plus you’re like following bands around, which is an interesting lifestyle for you to get exposed to and understand really quick.

Um, which kind of partners up with another question that I was gonna ask you about that, which is so. When you’re starting this whole thing out, I think you might have, I’m making a guess, but you can tell me if I’m wrong, but most of our perception of the music industry would be from a higher commercial level, right.

Of what we see the business look like. And yet when you come in, you are working with grassroots people who are just trying to make a name for themself and to, you know, level up past that stage where all their shows are attended by their family and friends and they’re just trying to break that cusp. So that’s a shocking difference.

Was, was there any, what were your, if you can recall, what were your ideas of what the industry was gonna be that you’d be [00:25:00] working with or the artists and the experience versus kind of what you learned really quickly from whoever you were working with?

Joelle: well, I mean, I guess I always knew that there was that echelons of the, of the music industry that I did always aim to become a part of. But more so from the of I wanted to push my bands up to that level. I never

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: about it in so much in terms of, of myself. I figured I would just get there when the right band caught on sort of

Yeah.

Um, and really at the time, we probably more looked at just like the other touring bands that were having more success, and we looked up to them and went, oh man, wish we could get to the point of. know, insert band name, the weaker thans or something like

Glen: Yep.

Joelle: Um, and uh, you know, but going around and playing all these little a hundred person rooms, you know, gas money gigs sort of thing, and you get enough pay to get you to the, get enough

Glen: The next one? Yep.

Joelle: Yeah. And I mean, it was also back in the time when, when there were small [00:26:00] venues across the country and you could tour to them, you know, that, that it’s

Glen: Absolutely.

Joelle: today. Um, and we’re probably at the, at the bottom of the curve right now of, of having live music venues, uh, on the smaller side, on the grassroots side available.

I’m sure it’s gonna come back though, because these things always happen in cycles, so,

Glen: I think they do. I think, I mean, that’s a great point to make by the way. Which I, I’m, I love that you had that perspective. Um, ’cause I have this conversation with people sometimes about the state of music or what the future is and not just people like in the industry. Like when people know that I’ve been involved in music for so long and you get asked questions, right.

And um, and I remember some people just saying, oh, this is completely dead here or dead there. And, and like, there’s no. Nowhere to play in Vancouver or, or they make some assumptions. And I guess one of the things I always remember studying music, and this is more from maybe the band [00:27:00] side of things, but maybe it relates to the venues, which is a lot of the great movements or growth spurts of like the indie spirit came out of places where there was nothing.

In other words, that, that entrepreneurialness, that goes with, I feel the music artist lifestyle of I’ll have to go and make it myself. If I don’t have a place to play, I’ll go make it myself. Right. Uh, if I don’t have the right look, I’ll go make my look. I’ll make my outfit myself and or whatever it is. So I, I’ve seen that a whole bunch, right?

Where scenes, and they talk about that being what happened in Montreal and, and back in the day, and, and I remember even, you probably even remember too, those early two thousands, there were a number of. Bands coming out of Regina, which had like nowhere to play at all. I remember like they had the indie venue for a long time called Channel one, which was where a lot of indie bands would tour and then that shut and then all of a sudden bunch of bands.

Yeah.

Joelle: [00:28:00] Regina

Glen: The exchange.

Joelle: yeah.

Glen: But I’m wondering like, so that happens with fans being scrappy, but for venues to pop up, for us to get these kinda small market, local places to play requires like somebody on the business side to believe in it. So I, I told you I hosted this metal show and it was in this little place called Black Bar on on White Ave, which I’d only heard of the name and stuff.

And it’s so interesting for me to walk in and feel like this is a place that I would’ve walked into 25 years ago kind of feeling. It could, it could be, it could be a Toronto bar when you walk in. Uh, honestly, um, and. You know, and they’re playing shows. They’re every weekend, right? They’re running shows all the time.

So somebody who’s running that place has to probably be willing to lose money for the, for the love and the belief of it. And I feel like, is that the primary reason that we’re [00:29:00] losing these places and they aren’t coming back fast enough, is that there’s not enough people willing to lose money for the love of it.

I mean, the story of this classic sidetrack in Edmonton was, you know, that the rich guy’s son kept it going forever, even though, you know, it had that train attached to it and um, and it, in the winter you couldn’t keep all the cold air out and the amount they were paying for heating, like total act of love right?

To keep that thing around. But I don’t know what your thoughts are about that or how we bring those venues back.

Joelle: mean, how we bring them back, that’s a, that’s a tough one. I think you, you do like, you, like you said, you kind of need somebody who has a crazy wild idea and a passion for it doing it and then figure out how to make it work or create a scene, I suppose, around it. And then that scene hopefully will become somewhat self, self-sustainable. But I think, I mean obviously problems of [00:30:00] affordability are probably the main thing right now is that, you know, like commercial real estate, ridiculously expensive

Glen: Yeah,

Joelle: things like that. you know, like you were talking about sidetrack in Edmonton, it made me think about the railway here in

Glen: yeah.

Joelle: and how, you know, I mean, that was a legendary venue.

How many bands got broken out of the railway club?

Glen: Absolutely.

Joelle: in Vancouver. Um, it was so legendary. But I mean, you, it wasn’t sustainable because when the rent is 20 grand a month or something like that, how are you gonna, how are you gonna pay your staff? How are you gonna turn over as much money as you need to pay that much in rent and keep the business

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: the numbers just don’t add up. So I’m, what I’m seeing now, and you know, as we were talking about, there is a, um. Huge diminishment, I guess in, in Vancouver of live music venues. But I see them cropping up in, in, you know, in the corners and in the unlikely spots and in, you know, one of the, one of the biggest [00:31:00] venues right now for live music, for local live music and, and even some touring bands in Vancouver, is a place called Green Auto, which is actually, it’s a film supply shop. Like they do

Glen: Hmm.

Joelle: for film. um, so, you know, like big green screens

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: and blue screens and stuff like that. Um, and then they just push the tables all off to the side and open it up. And there are music venue at night and it’s fantastic. Like, it’s, it’s, it’s currently the place where all the bands wanna play in Vancouver ’cause it’s where you’re going to

Glen: That’s really cool.

Joelle: you know, so it, the, it’s like, you know, you can’t keep a good thing down.

It’ll crop up.

Glen: Well, that I firmly believe and I, I think that’s a great point. I, I also think that, you know, I, because I was right before you talked about this place in Vancouver, I was thinking it almost seems like the trend needs to be, ’cause brick and mortar is the problem, like you said, commercial real estate. And it’s not just music.

I mean, I, [00:32:00] I grew up in a very religious background in the churches and like my dad was a, a preacher, so I’m, I’m well aware of even the quote unquote business side of church. And one of the biggest problems was always like the amount of like. Once they invested in those great big new buildings they would build right?

Then the sustainability of that changed almost the nature of the business, right? You couldn’t have a whole bunch of altruistic, let’s just feed the poor. I kind of need some people with deep pockets to now come to my church so that I can sustain this stupid building forever. And really in the, to be a live music venue, it’s the same thing.

You have to probably have a really great restaurant maybe is one of the models, right, that people would come to all through the week. When I’m not playing live music, you also have to choose your niche not to scare away people that might want to come and enjoy your food or something. Like, it’s a, it’s a delicate balance.

So I was thinking you need a venue that you don’t have to [00:33:00] be committed to the full-time sustaining of the brick and mortar, you know? Um, but you’d like to have some regularity. So the option that you just discussed where somebody. Who’s not classified as a live music venue right there, a different business can also turn what they do into that.

And then you rely on that, you know, that spirit of, of the people who love something different in, in music to, to really,

Joelle: spirit, that entrepreneurial DIY

Glen: Yeah. That’s really cool. Okay, so we sidebar, but that’s what I, I absolutely love to do. So, um,

Joelle: that happens all the time with me too, so,

Glen: yeah, I love it. So, so Ma May was born ma Yeah. So your, like entire publicity company was born and you’ve run with that right up to fairly recently. Like when did you officially kinda shut that down? Even like four years ago? Three years ago.[00:34:00]

Joelle: Longer than that, really. But, but I sort of never shut it down officially because I always thought, well, you know, people know me as that and you know, if anything happens, it’s something that I can fall back into. Um. You know, so I, I ran Mod May for about a decade. Um, and you know, of course didn’t just do publicity the whole time.

Um, I, I, I can still considered myself a publicist and I invoiced people as such, but I did a lot of management work too, and I did a lot of grant writing, and I did a lot of this and that and, and, um, you know, in the midst of it to one of my artists decided he wanted to start a folk festival, Oliver Swain.

And so we started a folk festival together in Victoria and ran that for a couple of years, um, until that became unsustainable, sadly. Um, and you know, back when I started too with the, um, the low brothers had started a, a music festival in Car Star Alberta called Mountain View Music Fest, and I helped them run that too.

So I was, I was, I worked in a lot of different aspects [00:35:00] and um, um, then I think it was, what was it? I guess 2016 was a year that, that was just a slow year, right? Like it was, things were go, things were going well for me, you know, as far as reputation and everything like that goes. But I ran into a year where I didn’t have a lot of albums to, to help release, and I didn’t have a lot of tours and it wasn’t, I was like, oh, dang, how am I gonna make enough money to live this year? And so 2017, then I decided maybe it’s time to, to, um, you know, hang up the hustle for a little bit and get a salary job. And I applied and got this job, uh, at Sakamoto Agency, which was a booking

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: So another total new aspect of the, of the, uh, industry. Although it’s not like I never booked gigs

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: had booked lots of gigs on behalf of artists too. Um, and so I started that in 2017. And. It was really good because it was stable. Um, it got me into the world of country, [00:36:00] which I hadn’t worked in before. And so, you know, so I discovered that new aspect. Um, but probably the thing that I didn’t like about it was that it made me kind of have to, like, I faded back into the background as more of an administrative kind of type person

Glen: Mm-hmm.

Joelle: a number of years and was just doing, like, I did all the marketing and promotions work for the agency.

I did all the, you know, show logistics. I did everything but booking the shows, you know, operated the website, sent out all

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: releases, like I did all the publicity stuff, all the marketing stuff, and then all the show logistics. And then, um, well, and then COVID hit and uh, um, of course when you’re a booking agency and you’re in the business of gathering crowds and then a pandemic hits, you’re kind of hooped.

Glen: Yep.

Joelle: And, uh, so we decided to diversify the activities of the business in order to create more sustainability. And one of the things that we wanted to do was start a label I put my hand up basically and said I would like to be the one to run the [00:37:00] label. Um, because, well, it was something that I had always thought about, you know,

Glen: Yep.

Joelle: guess to take it back to when I was a publicist for a second, um, there was a period of time where I was renting office space as a publicist and I was sharing it with my friend Megan Scott, who was living in Vancouver for a few years.

She’s the, um, uh, executive director of, of, um, music Nova Scotia now. Um, and, uh, yeah, she’s awesome. She was doing grant writing and whatnot. And so we were working together in this office and one day went into the conference room and we thought, think about this. ’cause we both were talking about starting a label and could this work and. sat in the conference room and we wrote on the whiteboard, and we did all of this planning and everything, and then at the end of it we went, yeah, we can’t do this. We don’t have any money.

Glen: It is funny ’cause I was,

Joelle: this unless we had

Glen: I was just thinking when you were you saying that, ’cause it’s funny ’cause I think, uh, I’ve always been of the opinion that the number one [00:38:00] riskiest role to take in this entire industry is the promoter because you can technically lose your shirt on any night, um, depending on how big risk rewards you’re gonna swing.

But, uh, and then the number two is the label, um, which most models are. Just built not to make money for a very long time. So very risky. So I’m not surprised That’s how what you arrived at, at the end of that conversation.

Joelle: Yeah, it was where we arrived, but it, it never left my head, you know,

Glen: Yeah,

Joelle: like, I still wanna do that. I wanna be the label. I wanna, I wanna run a label or work at a label or something like

Glen: yeah,

Joelle: So when, you know, so when the opportunity came up with Sakamoto, that’s why I was like, heck

Glen: yeah.

Joelle: pick me.

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: I’ll run that. I have enough, I knew enough to know what I didn’t know, which made it, which made it a lot easier to do that job to figure it out. because I’d been working in, in enough aspects [00:39:00] of the, of the industry that I understood the processes. There was just a bunch of processes I hadn’t actually done,

Glen: Yeah,

Joelle: you

Glen: that’s a great way to put it about processes. ’cause you really can break it down, right? Is to like, which processes are which that make this machine go.

Joelle: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And so, you know, so it wasn’t, it was a learning curve for sure. Um, but it was a, it was, it was a challenge. I was more than willing to take on, ’cause it was definitely what I wanted to do. So, and now I’ve been, now, it’s been almost four

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: now, but then this year, of course we, we, the, uh, the label, um, was basically sold to new owners and, um, and we rebranded and relaunched it under a new

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: and have also sort of updated the mandate, um, to still work in country but not be limited to just country, which we were more under Sakamoto music.

So the new label’s called New Motor

Glen: Yeah, new motor records. So,

Joelle: Yeah,[00:40:00]

Glen: so when there’s stuff, I’m gonna want to go backwards in your timeline in a second, but, um, but we’re here right now, so I’m gonna ask you this question because like, everything that I sort of, it didn’t look to me like you were running the, like a label when you were in Sakamoto.

Like you had a number of different titles and, and I assumed you were just like, with most of these, you were just doing everything and wearing the hats. It doesn’t sort of matter what the title is by that point. Um,

Joelle: Yep.

Glen: but then when the new label was announced, this, you know, New Motor Records, like there was a very strong attachment to it of.

Being run by Joellele May, you know, industry veteran. Of all these things, as you know, probably of your own, doing a publicity like that was the publicity angle that was a push to, to saddle those together. What was, what was that choice to [00:41:00] make it look that way with the new sort of name and branding and imprint versus how you sort of evolved your role at Sakamoto?

They don’t seem like they kind of had the same publicity.

Joelle: Yeah, well, like I said about, about sort of a background character at Sakamoto for many years, um, and having been more of a upfront character as a publicist in the music industry be before I was sort of, you know, to be honest, I was sort of itching to get back out there and be like, Hey everybody, I’m still doing this and, and this is what I’m doing now. Um. Because if you in this industry, if it, if you’re outta sight, you’re outta mind.

Glen: Mm-hmm.

Joelle: And it’s easy to forget about ’cause there’s so much coming at you all the time from so many different angles, um, that it’s easy to forget somebody that existed or whatever. And I did so much work previous, you know, working with Breakout West, working with Folk Alliance, working with a bajillion indie bands, working [00:42:00] with, um, Barney Bental, um, project Wild, all sorts of different things. You know, I had, I knew so many people and I was well ingrained in the industry when I started at Sakamoto. But then it was like, I spent years not talking to any of those people because what I was doing wasn’t relevant to what they were doing. So I didn’t have a

Glen: Yeah,

Joelle: really. and I wasn’t going to the same industry events and whatnot anymore.

So I felt like I’d kind of exited, the greater scene, I guess, for a little while. So in relaunching the brand, I mean. There’s also, the other aspect of of it is just me running it. So it’s not like we had a whole staff to showcase,

Glen: true.

Joelle: you

Glen: It’s true.

Joelle: it was just me, but it was my opportunity to, to get back out there as Joellele and be like, this is what I’m doing.

You know? And it’s, it’s been great actually because I, I mean, I’ve had people like yourself who I’ve known for many years, but we haven’t crossed paths in, in a long time, who then reach out and go, oh yeah, I remember you. I remember Joellele, we had fun together. [00:43:00] Let’s, you know, tell me what you’re up to right now. So I’m hoping that it helps open doors for the label and for the artists that,

Glen: Yeah,

Joelle: we work

Glen: that makes a lot of sense. And to be clear, Joellele was never forgotten, but, um, just, just, um, more coming across the desk, if you wanna put it that way. Do you know what I mean? Like, we all end up with some version of blinders, and you’re right, like, um, we can know each other as long as we’ve known each other, but unless somebody pushes that across in front of my blinders, then um, then there’s not a lot to sort of trigger all of that.

Um, but. Oh, I used the word trigger and it just made me think. Like, but you know, but when it happens, you trigger memories. So, um, this is a random, this is random for where we are in our conversation, but I, one of my biggest memories with you, by the way, was I’m pretty sure it was JUNOS 2016 in Calgary, and you forced me, and by [00:44:00] forced, I mean, you just told me I’m not allowed to go to a, because there’s like 5, 6, 7 showcases happening all at the same time every night, right.

Um, around the city. But you were like, you have to come to me. And it was like a basement stage in a wine bar, um, Patto. And that was the introduction to Petunia and the Vipers. And you said, and you were like, you have to come see this. None of the other ones, I can’t remember. I sort of had remembered your words.

That was like none of the other ones matter. No offense, but trust me. Or something like that. And, um,

Joelle: yeah,

Glen: and so I was, I was there watching Petunia and the Vipers with you, and I remember being blown away and I was like, where did,

Joelle: yeah,

Glen: did these guys come from? And it was one of those pure moments, right, where I’ve been in the industry long enough to know they didn’t come from nowhere.

These guys have probably been doing this. Well, they looked pretty, some of those guys looked a lot older than me and pretty ragged. They’ve been doing it a long time, but all of a [00:45:00] sudden that, that mix, you know, and I, I figured out later it was mostly Petunia’s thing. But, um,

Joelle: yeah.

Glen: it was incredible. That was a great show.

That was a fun memory. That was a, that was a very fun memory. That was a fun Junos year too. There was a lot of great

Joelle: Absolutely.

Glen: hopping that year. Um, I wanna ask you this, because you talked about, you sort of framed your 10 plus years of like. Hardcore pushing your own publicity company. And you sort of described it at the start of even going all in, living in a van and driving around with the bands that you were working with.

Um, so you really started with the rock and roll life, which I can see why that would feel like such, you know, a really a harsh chemistry on your system to all of a sudden be in the background and just doing all the admin work, which you’re really good at. And I can relate to, by the way, is ’cause the whole reason I got into all [00:46:00] the business side of this, of being on boards and, and music associations and grant funding and, and running a label myself for a while was because I understood that side of the brain, for lack of a better term of the business.

Um,

Joelle: yeah,

Glen: but I loved the, after 5:00 PM I loved being with the people and going out and being in the club. I would rather do all my business. Where the music’s playing. Right. So I totally get that. And you know, 10 plus years of that, and you described it as the hustle that it takes and a lot of the hustle is like not nine to five, it’s after five really to make a lot of stuff happen.

Um, I guess there’s two things I’m curious about. You personally, Joellele. One is how even to now, even though you’re a little, like you said back out a little more, but the pandemic was hard on those of us who lived that life. I’m [00:47:00] wondering how you’ve dealt with the change of that not being sort of as front and center, but I’m even more curious about, was it really hard for you to build relationships, either like personal relationships with people or connections or even sustain friendships other than.

The 500 sort of surfacey friends that we make in the music business. What was your personal experience like in reflection?

Joelle: learned, I learned that, um, that those that you think that are your friends, and I don’t wanna, I’m not calling anybody down for this or

Glen: No, no. This, we all know it.

Joelle: you end up spending so much time with these people and you, you’re like, oh, we’re, you know, we’re the best of friends. Um, and then when I, when I started at Sakamoto, um, and I suddenly, I wasn’t doing publicity for all these artists and [00:48:00] whatnot, just sort of all exited my life. I was like,

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: Oh, they’re not, they’re not actually my friends so much. It was more of friendship of convenience, you know, and nothing against those people. And I’m sure that if I called them up and said, Hey, let’s go for beer, they would probably be like, yeah, let’s do that. You know? Um, it’s, it’s definitely a thing about this industry.

You gotta, you gotta really watch you, you learn over time who your friends are and who’s just being your friend because they want something from you,

Glen: It is not nefarious. Uh, that’s what you’re trying to say, but it’s true. It’s like if, if, if they don’t need something from you anymore, you know, are we, are we still gonna friends? Are we still gonna call each other up and just go for drinks or not?

Joelle: Yeah, we’re not doing coffee and computers anymore together or whatever.

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: Yeah. So, you know, you, you learn. But, um, I mean, at the same time, I gotta say that the music industry, I’ve never [00:49:00] found a place where I like I belonged more

Glen: Yeah. Man, I, yeah. Okay. I love that. I relate to that so much. I, I, I mean, if I’m gonna be really vulnerable, like I developed, which is, I’m been a super extrovert my whole life and, and I saw this coming though I didn’t pay attention to it before the pandemic, but the pandemic super triggered it, which is I developed social, I developed social anxiety at this stage of life where I would drive myself all the way from my suburb home to the bar downtown Edmonton.

And I’d sit in the car,

Joelle: Uh,

Glen: you know, I wouldn’t go in and

Joelle: the pandemic did that to all

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: extent.

Glen: And I don’t know what it was, right. It’d be so hard to go in and, um, I just wasn’t ready for all the hab nobby bullshit. I guess I just needed something real, and I felt maybe similar to you. It’s hard finding out who your friends really are, and I.

I’ve experienced that a few times, which is why I was curious [00:50:00] for you just what you had experienced before. I, like I said, I grew up in the church. Again, a massive built in social network if you’re plugged into a church. Um, I even worked in one coming outta college for a while. Um, it was a big church. I had such a massive network.

When I quit, it was amazing how fast the phone stopped ringing and I used to have seven nights a week booked for me. And, um, and I experienced that then. And then when The Wheat Pool ended, um, I couldn’t believe how soon the phone stopped ringing again of all these people. Right? And uh, so you go through that in these places where we have built in social networks, and yet I think maybe people don’t realize, you know, that doesn’t feed the thing that we all really want, which is some actual deep connection with people, right.

Joelle: absolutely. You’re right. It’s, I think the pandemic kind of did it to all of us, and it definitely did it to me too, where, um, because [00:51:00] I was also an extreme extrovert as you were very

Glen: Mm-hmm.

Joelle: Um, and I’m less extroverted now. You know, I wouldn’t, I’m definitely not an introvert. I don’t go that far, but, um, but I appreciate my. Solo time or my, you know, more deep, intimate one-on-one time with people now than I probably did back then. I mean, obviously we’re all craving that deep connection for

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: Or to be really, I guess for who we are and what we’re doing. Um, but these days I’m more struggle with, with it not so much in the sense of like, I don’t have the, the FOMO anymore.

I don’t have the fear of missing

Glen: That’s great.

Joelle: Um, but I do, I, I struggle with the, do I stay at home and, and, you know, snuggle in on my couch and watch Netflix or whatever, or should I be out there discovering bands and stuff like that? Like I know

Glen: Hmm.

Joelle: getting older and stuff like that and that, that I’m not, you know, with the 20 year olds in the scene and stuff like that anymore. But I still wanna know what they’re [00:52:00] doing. I still wanna check it out and I still want to hopefully work with it if I can.

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: I am approaching these things in a little bit different manner now, where. Um, I, I don’t need to be on the scene to be seen anymore, but I do wanna be on the scene to make discoveries for

Glen: But the discovery has to be different. I mean, we already talked about the live music changes in our, in our landscape and, and that’s essentially like how people are discovered or found. Like when you say like, I’d like to be out there, there’s actually nowhere to get out to. In the way that we used to, right?

It was like, oh, I’m just gonna, I’m gonna go sit on bar stools and rub shoulders with people, you know, for a few times. And all kinds of things came out of that. But getting out and being seen or discovering bands is so different now. Like, how do you, how do you do that?

Joelle: Well, uh, these days it’s been, [00:53:00] it’s been a little bit word of mouth, thankfully since I did, you know, announce that this is what I’m doing and whatnot. I’ve had a lot of people from my past reach out, you know, like I had a, um, a producer friend reach out recently with a new artist and say, Hey, I’ve got this guy, I’ve been producing his music. He’s really got something going. You know, you’re the first person I thought of and send it to me. So I love that. I want people to do that. Um. You know, the, through Music BC for example, you know, they, they run showcases and whatnot all the time. Discovery showcases and I get invited to those sometimes. Um, sitting on, on panels as an industry guest is, is, you know, and going to, going to award shows or conferences or those sorts of things still keeps me sort of at that level. However, when you’re at those, um, like, and for discovery, I mean, what, when you’re at those though, that’s when the, the blood bath potentially happens because you’ve got an artist probably that’s right at that level where then all the [00:54:00] labels are like,

Glen: wants. Yeah, yeah,

Joelle: artist. Right? And so then you gotta go in and fight for it.

I would personally, of course, rather discover the artist sooner, you know, and lock that in and then present them to the rest of the industry. I mean, don’t we all want something like that? It doesn’t always work that way.

Glen: yeah. I don’t know if you remember, um, Breakout West in Regina. I don’t know, maybe it was like 20 13, 14, maybe. I can’t remember. It was 2012.

Joelle: in Regina in 2012.

Glen: Harpoonist and Ax Murder and the, that was a bloodbath, wasn’t it? Wasn’t everybody after

Joelle: an absolute, absolute blood bath.

Glen: Total Buzz?

Joelle: blood bath. And those guys, I, I, um, I actually ended up hanging out with the most of that, of that weekend of breakout West. ’cause you know, they were pals of mine from Vancouver. Uh, and I knew them. And so I remember and just, I was kind of happy to not be [00:55:00] in the, in the big blood bath of it.

But I, you know, I, I, I was pals with them and, um, they thought enough of me that they did hire me for, to do

Glen: Hmm.

Joelle: one-off events for shows and whatnot. It was, you know, so I got my work out of it there, but I completely remember

Glen: It’s fun to watch from the outside, right?

Joelle: Yeah. And I remember that Regina was 2012 because 2011 was White Horse.

Glen: Okay.

Joelle: um, do you remember the White

Glen: I didn’t go to the White horse one.

Joelle: Oh, you didn’t,

Glen: I missed it.

Joelle: horse year. That was

Glen: We were on, uh, we were on, no, I can’t remember where we were. I couldn’t make it. I don’t remember.

Joelle: You were on tour or

Glen: Maybe.

Joelle: Hey. Um, and I, I remember that they did a, um, a drawing, on the last night of the White Horse one at the whatever bar it was that. uh, we were all at and everybody put their business cards in a, in a jug, like a beer jug, and they did a draw. [00:56:00] And the whoever’s card they drew won, um, their delegate pass for the next year in Regina.

And it was me. I actually won. It’s like maybe the only time I’ve ever won anything

Glen: pretty great.

Joelle: And so I will never forget that Regina was 2012 because that was the only year that I didn’t have to pay my own way to get there. You know, my hotel room was comped and

Glen: Well, that’s why,

Joelle: uh, delegate badge was

Glen: that’s why those things are so important for the industry. People when they do show up, and I don’t know if bands always respect this enough that everybody’s paying their own ticket not to just go there and ’cause Right. The bands look at it like all those industry guys, we all, you know, you all just hang out and talk to each other at every show and venue and then move around and, and it’s like, feels like a hard, you know, shell to crack or whatever.

But the, you know, you guys invested, you know so much to be at all these events and it’s your own pocket and there’s nobody’s paying and expensing all that kind of [00:57:00] stuff. So, uh, it’s really important that stuff happens for you, that you’re able to make some connections and make even some business happen.

That’s why you’re there in the first place. Uh, you had talked earlier, Joelle, about, you know, you, when you were deciding like, okay, I’m going to. I’m gonna run a label and some of the processes are different. Right. Um, and so I think you’re, maybe you’re referring to like the processes of publicity and sort of where it fits in the cycle of artists and business.

Right. Are one thing. And if you’re, you know, if you’re a booking agent, it’s, it’s a, it’s different. It’s in the same cycle, but, you know, there’s a different set of processes and different set of relationships and, um, type of things that you’d have to sort of figure out. Not all of them are, could be put in an onboarding manual, obviously.

Right. So there’s a lot of the in between. I’m wondering what the processes that you thought were there for running a [00:58:00] label were that you thought you might not be familiar with.

Joelle: Well, um, I guess just going through all the proper distribution channels,

Glen: Hmm.

Joelle: working with, working with indies. know, there’s, I think I talked about this in maybe the interview that I did with V 13 too. There’s, nobody teaches you how to do

Glen: Nope.

Joelle: right? Like, there’s no, there’s no, here’s how to release music 1

Glen: It’s an apprenticeship industry. That’s it.

Joelle: Yeah, it’s basically you have to, it’s trial by fire. It’s go in and figure it out, you know, nobody teaches you this. So the, um, I don’t really wanna, I’m gonna say sloppy, the sloppy way we released albums when I was working as an indie publicist, it’s not, wasn’t really sloppy. I mean, we were planning it out best we could, but it wasn’t going through all the proper distribution channels, giving enough lead time necessarily, those sorts of things.

I mean, this was all prior to the days of Spotify and whatnot too. So things have changed completely, um, since the invention of digital

Glen: Yeah.[00:59:00]

Joelle: as well. Um, you know, at that, back at that time, we were, we were releasing albums on CDs. Right? Like, it was like you were putting it up for sale on your

Glen: Yeah. The only thing determining,

Joelle: at shows.

Glen: thing determining your timeline was when you had to learn the hard way not to book your CD release show to when the distributor, when the manufacturers told you they would get your CDs back to you, and then the amount of bands that booked the show and then the shipment was late

Joelle: show

Glen: with no CDs.

But, but I mean, the new version of that, if I hear what you’re saying, is like there’s more platforms involved that are third party and

Joelle: yeah,

Glen: gonna determine your timelines and processes for you because you have to fall in line with how they do things, right?

Joelle: It’s a much longer process when you’re working, you know, more in the upper echelons in the commercial music world sort of thing than indies just being like, I’m gonna release this tomorrow.

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: I [01:00:00] would never do that. I’m, I’m like, I have to have a month’s notice, at least, you

Glen: Yep.

Joelle: five weeks, ideally, between the time that I, you know, upload a song to a distributor and that it comes out. know, I need that, I need that amount of time, at least five weeks in between, in order for me to have time to get all of my pitching processes done and get everything set up and, you know, start a pre-safe campaign, do all of the, all the things that you gotta

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: now, right?

Glen: Yeah. Well, I mean, because making music, the marketing of the music is the real business of music, right? The making of music is not the business anymore, and it’s the marketing of music, and that requires time and planning and a lot of research and understanding. Um, yeah, and the, and again.

Joelle: and that’s what often doesn’t happen in the indie world, right?

Glen: Not at all.

I mean,

Joelle: happen. There’s the, the old saying of you’d spend 20 [01:01:00] grand to make an album and then $200 promoting it, and that’s why it doesn’t

Glen: yeah, well, a hundred percent. And I remember how revolutionary it was, um, in the days of, I remember being on juries with, um, AFA with Alberta Foundation for the Arts. And they had a really, you know, especially through the two thousands, the first couple decades, like very good amount of funding I felt as far as like what was accessible to, to bans and, and when the shift came to even be with Factor and the a FA to, essentially if you qualified for a recording grant, they auto qualified you for a marketing.

Grant as well. And they were doing that before I felt a lot of artists really understood why, um, which is exactly what you said, like it should be the reverse. You kind of have to spend five to 10 x over what you spent on the product in, in any version of marketing out there. [01:02:00] But, but yeah, all that marketing and all that stuff is all so platform dependent.

Um, now

Joelle: Yeah.

Glen: has that, has that always been an easy thing for you to figure out? Is that part of why you’ve been really good at this?

Joelle: figuring it out. Yeah. I mean, don’t know if I’m really good at this, but, we’ll, you know, decent at it, I guess. Yeah. Still waiting for that big number one hit, but I’m sure it’s coming. but no, I think, I think that, um, it’s definitely, it’s gotten easier actually, all these tools to get your stuff out there further, you know, um, it’s, there’s a lot, there’s a lot of onus on, on how do you promote things and everything like that, but, um, ultimately, you know. Not considering the, the massive amounts of competition that we have these days, and probably more competition than ever. Actually getting your [01:03:00] music out in front of people is easier than

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: you know, like it is. It’s, it’s easier than ever for sure. You can make it available like that. Um, getting attention for it, getting, you know, the proper marketing stuff, that’s harder.

But that’s always been hard, right? Like, that’s always, it’s, it’s often, I mean, I have decent relationships with the DSP reps and whatnot, so, you know, when I put something out, generally it will get considered for playlisting and whatnot, uh, on DSPs. But that doesn’t mean that it always happens, right? Like, it’s not, it’s not a guarantee

Glen: Yeah. And

Joelle: you know, you just do your best because you try to have those relationships and, and, uh, and do what you can and put out the best music that you can.

Glen: yeah, I mean that’s the part that’s never changed is the relational side of this industry. Uh, by the way you use the term DSPs and anybody listening, that’s digital service provider, if you’re wondering what she’s talking about. [01:04:00] Yeah.

Joelle: Music. Amazon

Glen: All, all of them.

Joelle: Yeah.

Glen: And yeah. And so having that access is important. I mean, I, I think the curator still holds a power that you, I mean, you referenced the blogs when, when the industry shifted for you and publicity to online.

And then, and then these music blogs were popping up everywhere and they really became taste makers. Um, essentially, and, and then, you know, a magazine like Pitchfork, essentially they grew into their superpower online. Right. This essentially this same thing and, but it’s,

Joelle: some of them didn’t

Glen: and some didn’t. Yeah.

Joelle: Like

Glen: But it’s, it’s taste makers and, and curators.

And the reason why DJs, when they had a say over music. Had some real power and sway over scenes and their geography and their region that they were in.

Joelle: Yep.[01:05:00]

Glen: And there’s just been different versions all along. And right now, the people who curate the biggest playlists on your DSP are the ones who have the biggest amount of influence.

I, I said this in a recent thing too, which is actually, I think it was my intro for my, uh, recent episode with Mike Adele. I was referencing a fascination of mine lately, which is, we put so much attention and weight historically on the artist, the people who have this unique, like God-given universe granted skill to put words together in a special way, make us feel something.

And yet the editors have had the real power all along, right? Like, I don’t know how many books were written for the Bible. Some bunch, a room of dudes in the 15th or whatever century decided how many were gonna make this book, right? Like, think about the influence of that. Like [01:06:00] journal editors,

Joelle: right. It was the editors.

Glen: the editors like, like every, every newspaper article, like no matter what angle that writer sees, it gets to our eyes, depending on if an editor made it say it.

And the music industry right now, I feel like those playlist curators are just editing. And to a degree, maybe this is what worries people. AI is editing the algorithms, which put music in front of our face when we have our blinders on and, and, and show us up. So I think it’s really interesting in the brought up relationships, how do you, I.

How do you build those relationships? Is it still old school? Do you have to show up at events? Are they, because I feel like those guys are more veiled and hidden than anybody in, in, in my 25 ish. His your history.

Joelle: yeah, yeah, definitely. Oh, you’re right. They are the most, most veiled and the most coveted and difficult relationships, [01:07:00] uh, to

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: sure. Um, it’s, guess through, I mean, in my days as a publicist, uh, nobody handed me a media list or anything like that. I went out and got every single media contact that I, that was ever on my

Glen: Hmm.

Joelle: radio, print, blogs, whatever. Um, I’ve never been afraid of the, of the cold call. And it’s, and it’s worked out for me. ’cause, you know, I’m, I like people, I’m good with people,

Glen: Yep.

Joelle: Like, I’m, I actually do genuinely like people. So that’s, it makes it a lot easier for me to approach somebody and be like, Hey, new friend, you know? and, and generally then people react warmly to that too.

And then you’ve got yourself a new contact. And of course from there, it, it doesn’t just end there. You have to then be pushing stuff to them that they’re gonna like, or that they’re gonna at least recognize the value of. Um, and so that is what really helps build your [01:08:00] reputation with somebody too, right?

You know, if a curator, you send a song and they go, oh man, I love this. I’m gonna give it a cover and, and whatnot, then they’re gonna pay more attention the next time you email them or the next time you call them and say, this is the next new thing that I have for you. Right.

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: that was something that I always maintained as a publicist too, that I’ve, that has, has transferred well into, into my role as managing the label.

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: Yeah.

Glen: Like, this is the first time I’m starting to experience it. My, our mutual friend, I’m sure Chris Winters was telling me

Joelle: Mm-hmm.

Glen: what to maybe expect. He’s like, you’re gonna stick with this podcast for a while. You gotta like, keep it going. ’cause perseverance always wins in the music business. And he goes, and then you won’t have to worry.

He said, people are gonna start bringing people to you to, and, and, but then, but then I’ve also recognized what you were [01:09:00] just saying too, is like, the great ones are, if somebody’s like, they, they get me. Like, it’s really nice to feel like they understand. Like when somebody says, I think this person would be really great.

Um, and then they are, then you’re like. Yeah, you build a, you build a huge jump of trust meter there with somebody. But, uh, when somebody comes to you and says, oh, you, you should talk to so and so, and then I was like, do you know me at all? Like, uh, anyhow, so

Joelle: Yeah.

Glen: the opposite

Joelle: And then

Glen: can be true. It’s like I thought,

Joelle: end up taking that and then it becomes a train wreck conversation, and then you’re like, oh, I’m not gonna take that person’s advice any

Glen: yeah, that’s the thing, right? Is you like, you have no choice but to file that information away. For sure. Um,

Joelle: Yeah.

Glen: tell me about the record label right now and what are kind of the big, exciting things on the horizons, or, or what are the things that are, you know, even if you wanna tell [01:10:00] me, you know, what are the challenges of running a record label in 2025?

I’d be really so interested.

Joelle: Well, I mean, in the transition, um, a lot of artists sort of fell off the roster or we didn’t continue on deals with some of the artists. So in the transition we came across with only like three artists. Aaron Goodvin, who’s been on the label since. Basically since it started. Um, and he’s the biggest artist on the label.

You know, he’s got hundreds of millions of streams on his catalog and whatnot. And actually really the biggest for our label too, um, ’cause songs that we’ve released, um, for him have several million streams and things like that and have been radio charting songs and things like that. But, um, so we had Aaron Goodvin, um, we had, uh, I signed a new artist actually, who I’m very excited about.

Her name is Paige Rutledge, and she’s from, uh, Ontario. And our next song with her is coming out October 24th. Um, and it’s really, really good. I really, [01:11:00] I can’t wait for people to hear it. Um, she’s a country artist though, as well in the more in the pop country kind of realm. I, I. I would say. And then, um, I also released this album just in September from Meredith Moon and Meredith Moon.

It, it’s a folk folk album, basically folk Americana kind of stuff. And Meredith is actually the daughter of the late great Gordon Lightfoot. And

Glen: Wow.

Joelle: you know, the, her musical chops, she comes by it

Glen: Yeah. Yeah. That’s cool.

Joelle: talented. Really, really great. I mean, um, I don’t, she doesn’t love the, necessarily the Gordon Lightfoot references.

I mean,

Glen: That’s gotta be hard.

Joelle: that’s her dad. But of course it definitely is nobody, you don’t wanna, nobody wants to earn their own, like their reputation based on somebody else. They wanna get there themselves. Right.

Glen: Yeah. You, you wanna be the,

Joelle: think

Glen: the wallflower is not Bob Dylan’s son, so

Joelle: [01:12:00] exactly.

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: it’s like you can say, yeah, that’s Bob Dylan’s son, but the wallflowers. You know, made it big on their

Glen: Yeah,

Joelle: basically. And it always helps to have a little leg up on, on something like that. You know, like personally I would, I’m not afraid of, of exploiting that information if it’s gonna help, but, um, but I don’t, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t, you know, artistically put that up in

Glen: yeah,

Joelle: and say, Hey, you have to compare them, or, or she’s only big because of this or anything.

’cause Meredith absolutely has her own two legs to stand on and, and does so easily, you know.

Glen: yeah.

Joelle: I actually just received word, um, this morning from my publicist that, um, that CBCQ is gonna do an interview with

Glen: Oh, that’s awesome.

Joelle: that was like,

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: that was kind of a pinnacle moment for sure. Right. Like, I mean, is there a, hi,

Glen: In Canada,

Joelle: source in Canada?

Glen: no. And it’s not just that, it’s. C, B, C. But it’s like, that’s [01:13:00] a great show and Tom’s like an incredible interviewer. Like there’s,

Joelle: he’s

Glen: there’s a reason. It’s also the pinnacle for sure. So I think that’s a fantastic thing to land. Um,

Joelle: yeah,

Glen: uh, I, it’s funny to hear you even just say, I just heard from my publicist.

It just feels like so ass backwards to hear. You s say that. Yeah. That’s pretty amazing. Um,

Joelle: Yeah. It’s a good feeling. Believe me, I kind of, I mean, I miss doing publicity in some ways, but holy moly, it’s so lovely to have people on your team that are great and, know, know what they do, know what they, know, what they’re

Glen: yeah,

Joelle: Um, and my particular publicist, I also think I’m, I was able to hire the best publicist because I’d done that job so much that I know who’s good and who’s not good at it.

Glen: for sure. Um,

Joelle: Yeah.

Glen: okay, I wanna ask you this question. I’m gonna ask it sensitively. You know, when you said, you know, they were talking about doing a label and diversifying and you put your hand up, I immediately guessed [01:14:00] that nobody in that room had any version of like, hesitation, um, in letting you run it in a, in any version of sexism.

I think, um, also, ’cause I know some of those people and, but I guess I am curious in the aftermath, like, since then again, because you said like, now I’m out there again and I’m running a label and there’s like, there’s Shauna De Cartier with six shooter. Is there anybody else? Um, I, I don’t know of, but

Joelle: a label? Oh my gosh.

Glen: like it’s a narrow

Joelle: geez. I never thought about that comparison with Shauna. What an honor.

Glen: Yeah, for sure. Like.

Joelle: You know, I mean, we all look up to her in the industry for, right. She’s a

Glen: Yeah, absolutely. I’m just wondering, have you gotten like those weird, I guess I’m just curious like how the industry reacts and whether there’s any bleeding, sexism that’s still coming through. I have these conversations with my [01:15:00] daughter all the time ’cause of the age difference and the, the perspective difference.

And I like to believe, ’cause I’ve, I remember what it looked like 25 years ago. I like to feel like we’re in a better place than 25 years ago. But she’s very quick to point a lot of shit out to me and, which is great and, and important to do. And I guess I’m just always curious firsthand when you move into a role of leadership and where there aren’t a lot of women in our industry that have gotten there.

Um, I’m just curious what, you know, what has happened that way for you?

Joelle: I mean, I think I’ve been pretty lucky overall, um, that I have experienced very little misogyny and, and things like that or, um, you know, harassment or anything like that. I’ve, I’ve been really lucky that the quote unquote old white men that helped me in my [01:16:00] career early on and whatnot, were really supportive and really not, um, making judgements based on my gender or anything like that. However, that said, it’s definitely still exists in this industry and I still do have to deal with it from time to time. Um, certain people, you know, maybe some of the old boys club kind of types, um, there’s one particular, um. You know, industry mucky muck, whom I, I won’t name, but, um, every time I meet them, they introduce themselves to me and I’m like, yeah, I’ve met you like 10 times.

Glen: Oh my God. Oh man.

Joelle: like, and people, and people will be like, oh yeah, that’s, he’s, you know, he doesn’t respect women very much or whatever, you know, so I’m like, okay, he just doesn’t remember me because I am, I am nobody to him.

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: That’s fine. You know, like, that’s fine and dandy, whatever. know, the worst I think is when I get it [01:17:00] women, to be honest with you. that happens from time to time, um, where women sometimes, and I think that this was probably, um, a lot more common, those women who did make it up that ladder somewhat to do so acting like a man. You know, um, I mean, it, it’s a touchy subject I guess. It’s hard

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: hard to say. It’s hard to say anything without possibly maybe offending somebody or pissing somebody off.

Glen: Yeah, it’s a small world. I know.

Joelle: I do think that that still happens in this industry. And, um, there are overwhelmingly more women who support other women in this industry and help build us up and whatnot. We have a great, uh, organization in Canada called Women

Glen: Mm-hmm.

Joelle: in Music Canada, the chapter. And it’s been, it’s been fantastic to have that around.

It was, it was needed for a long time and now it’s finally here and it exists and it’s, I’ve taken advantage of, of a lot of [01:18:00] their resources for sure. I did a leadership course with them, um, two years ago. I think, and was, was among their first graduating class of this leadership course that they started to offer. Um, yeah, it still, it still happens. Um, the odd person that you come across Will, will, you know, I find that in my case, it’s that I get treated more like a, like a secretary or administrator than the person who’s in charge. Um, we do have, uh, um, a group of, of investors, um, who are the owners of, of my label, right? Um, and, uh, people seem to think that, that, oh, if they call them, they’ll get what they want or whatnot. But those, those guys, the partners, they don’t work in the music industry and they know that I do. so they’ll go back and say, gotta talk to Joellele. She’s the one who’s in charge of that. But you know that them going above me is not because it, it’s because they think they’ll get more, they’ll get [01:19:00] further with the guy. Than with the

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: or that I’m not, I don’t have the authority guy has the as the authority sort of thing. So I mean, it happens, but mean, I don’t focus on it. I don’t, I don’t, um, um, let it ruin my day, you know,

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: like I say, for overwhelming majority are, are supportive and, and helpful and, it’s been long enough I think too that this has been something talked about in the industry that attitudes are changing, you know, and people are, are

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: know, the women in Music Canada crew that I, that I got in with her a couple years, um, ago doing that course. They’ve all become my, my close friends, right. We support each other. There was, while we were all in the course, we were in a group WhatsApp group

Glen: Hmm.

Joelle: and we still message each other in that same group

Glen: Is that the group that Robin is involved? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Joelle: yeah.

Glen: Robin from. Um, well she used to [01:20:00] run Breakout West, right. And then, yeah. So,

Joelle: when I, when I worked for

Glen: yeah.

Joelle: was under Robin.

Glen: Yeah. Well, I mean, what I’ve always known about you, Joellele, like, I’m not surprised that you don’t let it ruin your day. ’cause you’ve been like a, like a wonderful, and let me put it this way, I need to put it this the right way ’cause I just, I think that you’ve like been a no bullshit person, which, um, if you’ve, if you’ve, if you’ve hung around in the business, either that’s a developed skill or it’s a natural skill.

I’ve always, I’ve always felt it’s your natural skill to just be a take no shit type of person. Um, which is obviously gonna come in and be important, but I was gonna use the term you have like a sharp edge to you. And I thought right away that might sound like a backhanded compliment and I don’t want it to, because you’re such.

Like a soft-hearted person to be around. I would never want the perception to be wrong, uh, [01:21:00] at like how like great a hang you are and how supportive you are of your friends and how easily you let people in to, to be a friend, uh, which I think is credible. So what I mean the sharp edge, that’s just the no bullshit part.

I just think that, you know, and I, it’s not like we ever talked about it. I just always sense like you’re someone who clearly knows your boundaries. You’re someone who clearly knew, you know what, where people should like stand in in the business and then when people try to overstep, I’m pretty sure you are always find to point it out.

So,

Joelle: My sense of justice is very

Glen: yeah, which I think is a great skill and a great trait, if not just a skill.

Joelle: you saying that. I really appreciate you saying that, Glen, because that’s, um, um, that makes me really feel seen honestly, that you never know really how people are, are perceiving you until they tell you,

Glen: Yeah. Yeah,

Joelle: you know, and [01:22:00] I always hope that people are perceiving me in a good way. Um, and because I am friendly and approachable and I do, you know, every new person in my life is a potential new friend. That’s sort of the way I look at, at life in general. Um, uh, but I’m glad you noticed the sharp edge sort of thing too, because, know, being friendly and approachable and open and stuff like that can also be interpreted as potentially gullible,

Glen: Hmm.

Joelle: you know, or maybe not as knowledgeable or things like that.

And I see when people try to test those, those boundaries right with me, you know, uh, say something to me that I know. You know, blatantly false or whatever. And, and, but they’re, they’re, they’re just sort of testing the waters to see is she gullible? Is she gonna believe this sort of thing. Sometimes I think I should just go, you know, act gullible and go, oh, really?

Oh, okay. Because then I’ll actually have the upper hand. But I don’t, you know, like I’m, [01:23:00] I’m, I’m also very honest, like that’s, and um, sometimes that can be a little bit of a rare trait in this business too. Um, but it’s, it’s where, what I’m always gonna be, I’m always gonna be authentically me honest, forthright,

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: and well researched too.

Glen: Hmm.

Joelle: if I’m gonna make a claim, it’s gonna be because I’ve, I know that I can back it

Glen: Yeah. That’s great.

Joelle: Yeah.

Glen: Um,

Joelle: Thank you so much by the way. That was just, that was, that meant a lot to me.

Glen: well, yeah, I mean. Thank you. But I, I, I’m very sincere about, about that. I mean, I’ve just always known that about you and always had a super high level of respect. Uh, which is why I don’t bat an eye when you’re like, oh, I’m, I get, I’m in a comparable with Shauna. And, um, I think of course you are like, you’ve earned, you’ve earned everything.

I think that way that you’ve, that you have, because, you know, it’s not just putting in the time. And the, and I joked before about perseverance is essentially [01:24:00] why anybody still has a job in music, usually more than any other skill. But it’s actually, I think, a great combination of a lot of these things that I’ve always known about you.

So, um, I, I was, I was really excited, you know, that you were given this opportunity to like be the one to run something because when you’ve been doing something for a long time, you. A lot of us, and obviously you want the opportunity to be like, what do I do with all of this stuff? Right? Like, I know so much about all these different areas, like how many roles are left to me, for me to put them all together.

There’s not a lot. Right? Um, and this is one of them. So I think that it’s just a great opportunity and I think that you’re a great person to have the face of a, of a company and to be spearheading and making those kinds of decisions. So, um, yeah. Um, I

Joelle: I

Glen: tell me

Joelle: about you, Glen. [01:25:00] You’ve always been, you’ve always been really, you always have been a top-notch guy, know, easily approachable, friendly, helpful, accommodating you, you know.

Glen: I appreciate it.

Joelle: doing

Glen: I am too. I am too. I appreciate that very much. Um, so before we wrap up, just tell me kinda what the next. The next thing is, you said you have an artist, obviously front of mind for you is like their cycles that they’re on of, of releases and what they’re doing. Um, are you, like you said you kind of had to come outta the gate with just a few and retain just a few.

The mandate of your label is to, you know, wander outside of country. Um,

Joelle: Yeah.

Glen: so do you have like a lot of balls in the air that way, or, or are you working towards some of these? Can we expect to see new signings, things like that? Okay.

Joelle: absolutely. That’s sort of, that’s sort of the, the job of this fall is to, um. [01:26:00] know, get everything sorted out for the next two years of what we’re gonna be working on and what we’re gonna be releasing. The hardest part of all of this, like I am, got the job of, you know, releasing and marketing albums.

No problem. I, I know how to do that. Right. Signing new artists, that’s the hardest part of the job, to be honest with you.

Glen: What part? What part of it? Just making the call or making the right call.

Joelle: Making the, yeah, making the right choice, you know, um, um, getting, getting to know whether or not an artist is gonna work with you. Um, you know, are there songs gonna hit, you know, is this something that, um, that I have the resources around me to actually do a good job. With this, you know, that’s also, I guess that’s the, the transition out of country. I mean, I’m like ready right now to sign a punk band, but I’m also not ready right now to sign a punk band. Right. You know, in my heart I am ready, but in [01:27:00] my contacts list, maybe I should wait a little

Glen: Yeah. Yeah,

Joelle: Um, so, you know, that’ll be a gradual transition.

But yeah, that is what I’m working on right now is, um, a few new deals with artists and, um, hopefully get some factor funding maybe for the label, that that would also be a really good thing to happen finally.

Glen: yeah. I agree.

Joelle: and yeah, basically we’re just, we’re just making plans for next year. Right now I’m writing business plans.

I’m writing marketing plans. uh, I’m. Doing up deal

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: uh, to offer to new artists and, um, you know, creating some contracts. That’s sort of, that’s what’s going on right now. Um, and hopefully then in, in 2026 we’ll have a bunch of new artists and new music coming out. Yeah,

Glen: Well, that’s a, a nice tieback and a way to close the loop on your first job, which we talked about at the start of all the contracts you probably had to write back then. So, um, skill sets that stay with you forever. Right. Which is pretty cool. Um, [01:28:00] well, I just wanna say like, I really appreciate you. Um, I’ve said that in a couple different ways, but I just wanna make sure I say it personally and just

Joelle: is

Glen: Yeah, the ease and the warmth of a conversation with you has always been my favorite.

And, uh, with no extra smoke being blown up the ass, I mean it, that you were always somebody I, I looked to, I’m like, oh, I’m gonna be at a conference. I’m probably gonna look for Joellele. So, um, uh, it’s pretty great. And I’ll be honest, like I am feeling the need that I, like you, I have to start maybe getting myself out there to make.

To make this thing take off. I’m learning. I’m, I’m committed to learning how to do this thing well first, and then I have to be committed to figuring out how you actually promote a podcast, which is not the same as promoting a music career I’ve learned. Um, so I, I’ve got some things to learn, but, um, I was gonna be at Breakout West this year and then I had to, had to [01:29:00] back out of that, but I wasn’t, I was gonna be there.

But I’m trying to, I’m thinking of ways I gonna, I’m gonna start getting out into these places, maybe where you’re gonna be, and we’ll maybe rub shoulders before you know what, it’d be great.

Joelle: I wanted to be at Breakout West this year too, and I wasn’t, um, but more, I just, I I sh I needed to work more on this. I was like, just bring me in as a panelist, please. Um,

Glen: I, that was my pitch. I, I pitched them, um, about, I was gonna do like a keynote thing where I interview people similar to how I do the podcast and create some content. And we were working on it, but I couldn’t commit. They were open. They were open to it. They’re great. They’re great people. So

Joelle: year. Oh yeah. They

Glen: yeah.

Joelle: Now, Michael Dawson is in charge of it. They’re,

Glen: Yeah.

Joelle: it’s a

Glen: Talk about the Regina, the Regina bands that took off.

Michael Dawson. Yeah. So shout out Library voices. So

Joelle: Shout out

Glen: yeah,

Joelle: Voices. Still listen to some of their

Glen: great songs.

Joelle: time to time.

Glen: Okay. Well, thank you so much for taking the time with [01:30:00] me, Joelle. I really appreciate it and getting to know more of your story and your, and your sort of passion and your pursuits, and I look forward to seeing you as soon as we can at something live and in person.

Joelle: I can’t wait.

Glen: Awesome.

Joelle: so. I look forward to it too. Thank you so

Glen: Okay. Thank you.

Joelle: time. Great

Glen: Okay.

 

Okay, and we’re going, okay, believing that the mics are working. We didn’t test. Yep. We’ll, belief we have faith, we, we can believe. Well, that’s, yeah. Yep. Okay. How are you? I’m good. How are you? It’s, I was looking right into the camera and then talking to you as if like, we’re on Zoom on the Zoomy version, but we’re not, we’re in person.

So like I, I can like actually talk to you, but then if I talked to you, I would normally like lean over and we’ll be out of frame. Yeah. But the frame doesn’t matter ’cause we never post it. That’s true. So all of this is nonsense. You know why? ’cause you’re embarrassed of me. I’m not embarrassed. You shouldn’t say [01:31:00] that.

Um, so welcome to another episode. Yeah. And we, um, had a great conversation with old friend Joel I continue to do a run of, uh, maybe what, what do you think the number might be? Like 70% old friends. I was gonna say, so far, well. This one, and then the next one, I’m just gonna keep, I’m gonna keep milking it.

Yeah. The next one’s gonna be also a, a good friend, not as old as, no, as Joelle, but a good friend. Yeah. But a, a good friend like Yeah. To the feeling where I, like when I ask them, I feel like I’m not doing business. I feel like I’m calling it a favor. Yeah. But that’s okay. That’s because they all, they all act like they’re excited to do it with me.

That’s all that matters, which is pretty great. yeah. So. Also, I don’t know if you knew this, but another podcast that I listen to a lot and Enjoy did a spinoff now where the main guy goes and drives around a car with his best friend and then just has someone in the [01:32:00] backseat and they like. Just talk.

Oh. But they decided to get their license as like Uber Eats drivers. Oh, that was really funny. And so they’re taking orders and delivering them while they’re talking. Oh my goodness. What do you think the rain is? But then I was like, I’m like, ’cause we’re doing this in the car. Yeah. I don’t know if everybody realizes we’ve been like for three or four weeks now doing our post fame from the car in the garage.

It’s not running. No. Um, but here we are. And then I thought, what if we like got out and just got out and about, started Uber, see, well, I didn’t think about the Uber Eats part, but I, but prior to knowing that they were doing this podcast with the Uber Eats, I was, you were like, oh, what if we drove? I was like, what if we got in the car and drove around and then I.

And then I knew that they were doing this thing called mom’s car, but I, I didn’t know the premise. And then I listened to one today, I was like, oh crap. That’s really funny. Yeah, it is kind of funny. I wouldn’t drive. Um, I’m gonna make a social post too, but I’m gonna say it here. I just want to, in the world, in the vein of podcasts, give a little pump up and shout [01:33:00] out to our og.

Yeah, Dan, our number one. Guest? Um, not num, he was first. Okay. Sorry. He was first in order, dude. Yeah, well he was first in order. Our first, yeah. So he, uh, he started a podcast and he’s doing it like monthly. So it’s like he said, I’m doing quality over quantity, uh, once a month. He’s calling it long form conversation, which is essentially the same thing we do, um, to have conversations with artists, uh, around like, uh.

You know, the whole business of exposure and exposure, burnout. And I think just sort of like talking to other artists about, about that life of being on the, maybe the hamster wheel. I’m gonna have to listen to some episodes and find out. That’s awesome. But he had, um, the guy from Lumineers that you love Luminous.

Oh, because he toured through Europe with him. Yeah. And probably became friends. So it’s a great little start from him. And then he had busy Phillips who’s had a great kind of Hollywood career. She’s awesome. And I’ve seen them. Interchange on social media a lot, so I know they had a relationship. [01:34:00] So Dan’s calling in some favors from friends too.

That’s where I was going with all this and to get his podcast going, but I You are not the only one. I’m not the only one. But I love Dan and I think if you like all of this, talk with artists about all this stuff. Anyhow, I think you should probably go and listen to Dan. That’s awesome. Yep. he’s got two episodes so far, but we’re talking about Joellele.

Yes. Um, so who wears many hats said, who wears very many hats or has worn Well, I mean, here’s the thing, right? Is that like her career was backwards? Was Well, yes, that too. She said that too. Good point. But. The, the chunk of it was her publicity company. Yes. Like when she flipped into like, yeah, I should do this music business stuff.

And then that’s the thing. She started and that’s what she got known for. And she did for a very long time. Yes. Um, and anyhow, and then I think, like she said just before and going into COVID, she made some changes and that’s kind of got her to where she’s now, but, but in that like in order to succeed.

Yeah. I think that was a good part of our conversation, [01:35:00] right? Yeah. Which is like she had to wear. As you put it, all the hats, like you just have to learn all the things as you go. And she kinda had a great perspective on that. Which, um, I mean, we’ve talked to a lot of artists. Yeah. So somebody who didn’t come into it in the pursuit of being a rock star, I was gonna ask like, how many people do you know, like personally or just like know of who like kind of reversed roles like she did Because I feel like.

You hear a lot of like artists and then done, or artists and then they go into like kinda the business side. I don’t think I’ve really heard of any of, well, let’s put it this way too. New people doing the opposite. Well, if you, uh, in a perspective, so this is, I think, a really strongly defined around a local scene, like to your city.

Mm. Do you know what I mean? So, you know, like cities are trying to produce bands that are trying to make it right. Yeah. And some of them bubble their way to the top, and that top might just be like. They’re for a time known as the [01:36:00] best band in Edmonton, or Yeah, the best band in Vancouver or Toronto or whatever.

Um, in their genre, maybe. Or like some people may just think like they’re the best and that may be defined by like, they’re getting popular outside of your city and they’re going and touring, they’re coming back, or they’re just the ones who always draw an audience every time they play at home. Anyhow, what tends to happen is like.

A a, the band or an artist kind of goes through a bunch of cycles, either with one band or a bunch of bands. You start to have to learn the business. As you’ve heard from hearing all these artists talk about how they learned to do the things they do, right? Yeah. It is just ’cause you’re just forced into, you have to figure it out.

Figure it out. But then some of them learn those skills really well. Like when we talked to Kevy and he became so good at production that basically he that could go over, can pay his bills with production now and then he gets to. Not for fun, I would say, but pursue music with not the same, uh, same kind of thing.

But, um, what I was trying to say is, you see in your [01:37:00] local scene, like a lot of my peers right now, right? Mm-hmm. They were in bands that were, and they were spending all their time. Doing the band thing. And then some of them are the promoters who book all the gigs. Yeah. In the city. Now, uh, I know some who started kind of record label or they became like they got their own studio and that’s kind of where their strength was.

Yeah. And how they’re recording for other people all the time. So that’s really common in a local scene. But you asked me how many do I know that did like her rote, where she didn’t start with the dream of being in a band or a rock star herself. Um, I, I would say I know quite a few, but it’s because I got into a lot of things in my life that were connected to the business and industry across the country.

Right. Yeah. So I’ve seen a lot of the people who do it that weren’t in band, but you’re right in the sense that most of them had some version of that’s how they started. Mm-hmm. Like purely, I didn’t start this with the dream to be [01:38:00] a rock star. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. I didn’t come into this playing guitar.

Um, very few. Yeah. Very, very, very few. You’re right, probably. So it’s interesting. But there’s some who got into it just outta business. So like we, when we talked to Kevy and I think Hotel Mirror, they, like, they were referencing their record label in, um, Vancouver 6 0 4 records. That whole bigger company that is that label and some other things.

Which I think, uh, I almost feel like I need to fact check myself, but, um, we’re a part of some like early nickelback success maybe. Oh. Um, anyhow, they like that label got started by a lawyer. Oh. And I think he was involved in music law and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. But I think he just had business sense.

He had music industry sense. I think he formed it with a team. But again, not a, he wasn’t a musician, he just. It started a record label, so, um, I think his name is Jonathan [01:39:00] Simkin. Anyhow, uh, what were your thoughts about the conversation? I thought it was good. It was just like, it just, I mean, you can tell your old friends, like, it just flowed very naturally.

Yeah. Um, yeah, I don’t know. I just like thought that her like timeline was unique. And like Interesting. And I like that it sounds like she kind of has fallen into unexpectedly, like a very comfortable place. You know what I mean? Like where she is now and like what she’s doing. It’s like she might have not expected that that’s where she would’ve ended up, but she feels like she like it sounds like she’s like, feels like it’s a good fit and she like enjoys what she’s doing.

Yeah. That’s accurate. And I feel like that’s, um. I don’t know, like a lot of people you’ve had on and like a lot of people you’ve talked to, like they’re, even if they’re content, they’re like, oh, but here’s like, you know, kind of things I would change or here’s where I wanna be. But she seems like just good and like.

Sturdy and stable and like, I think that was really, yeah, also [01:40:00] like a special thing. I mean, what resonated for me, well, one thing is I always think even just beyond that, this is like a music based podcast and I think you know, just somebody’s story and you hear about how they were like pursuing something is just like, I don’t know if everybody recognizes when they’re your age, not just your age, but.

You know what I mean? Because it happens at different timing for everybody. Mm-hmm. But when you’re younger and sort of looking out at the longer road of your life, I don’t think you could ever realize how much life just happens. Mm-hmm. Like how many people’s story is, it just happens. Like for her it was, I started doing admin at this oil and gas company, and then she just, obviously because she’s good at wearing Yeah.

Lots of hats and figuring things out. She found a way to move up in the company Right. And be more valuable and, and kind of do more important things. And so she stayed for quite a while mm-hmm. To the point when shelves, and she looked back and she’s like, well, there’s most of [01:41:00] my twenties gone. Yeah. And is that what I really wanted to do all the way through my twenties or do I, and she’s like, no.

You know, and she kind of always was a punk rock kid. She had a friend who was involved in music scene. She got exposed. To a possibility and took a chance. And I think that’s awesome. But it just illustrated to me how much, and the way you just said, sorry about, it’s not like she had her set sight on sights set on like managing a record label.

Mm-hmm. But that’s because she just stayed open to things and then she decided at some point she needed to maybe pivot a little. That’s where she ended up. And life just happens a lot. That’s what I mean, that’s what it kind of sounded like, which is like cool to hear. Yeah. And I, I, it resonated with me. I was gonna say, because like I’ve spent a good chunk of my life, not just letting life happen, but like, I use the metaphor all the time.

Like I change lanes really early. Mm-hmm. I’m not [01:42:00] making changes early. I change lanes early. In other words, I’m getting ready. For what I think is next. Yeah. Or what I would like to see come next. So I want to put myself in the right place for it. So I start doing that and I’ve done that consciously, um, for a long time.

Just ’cause I sort of, I don’t know, I just have, but I just think it’s an interesting outcome in life. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s a good observation. Um. Yeah. You know who plays in Edmonton tonight? Who plays in Edmonton tonight? Which I wanted to go to, but I’m just too locked in. Um, and my boyfriend is busy, but, um, the velvet teens, you can’t see shows without your boyfriend?

Well, no, I can, but like, I don’t have any friends who would like go and see them. Is it because you don’t have friends? ’cause you spend all your time with your boyfriend? No, I spend all more time with my school. Is this another podcast conversation we need to have different No, because my friends aren’t like into that kind of music.

They’re not into the vel, velvet teens. Uh, they’re not cool enough to be into the velvet. Oh, good point. Um, don’t, anyways. They don’t [01:43:00] call you to do March anymore? No, that ship has sailed. I told you I ran into ’em, right? Yes. Oh yeah. I told you I served about that at Peter Dreams show. Um, oh yeah. They’re playing in Edmonton tonight.

And then, yeah. I was like, that’s awesome. I, that’s too bad. I know. Could have talked Jillian, like even another artist to check out. That was my connection to them. She’s amazing. I play her at work sometimes. Really on the, in the mix. That’s cool. Yeah, she’s awesome. Yeah. I didn’t even see their name on a bill for a while, so I didn’t even know if they were still like.

Making it happen. They were just, or if they were taking a break or what they were doing. They just did Vancouver and Calgary and they’re in Edmonton tonight. Oh, that’s good. They’re a party. Yeah, they’re awesome. Although I have to admit, like Spencer’s the only guy I kind of remember. That’s fair. Well, he’s kinda like, oh, he is very present as a front man.

Um, and then for the most part, they were a trio. When you watched them last, were they just four or three? I mean, yeah, they were, I think so. Okay. Like when I did their shows. Yeah. [01:44:00] Yeah. Yeah. That’s cool. I know, uh, well I’m sorry that you, you’re missing nap, but I feel the same way. I haven’t even paid attention to who’s coming through ’cause I’ve had my nose to the grindstone, but Right.

I would like to get out and see some, some shows soon. Um Okay. Yeah. That’s cool. That’s music. That’s music. It’s the way it is. Kate. Well thank you. Appreciate you. Good luck with the rest of your papers and things. Papers and school and stress. Yes. Okay, thanks. Okay, bye. I love you. Bye. I love you.