Jen Fritz goes public

ep19 Jen Fritz goes public

[00:00:00] If you are a young aspiring songwriter or old aspiring songwriter for that matter, or singer or band, if you have aspirations to be part of the world of music that you can visibly see, then at some point you start thinking about how to take it outta your bedroom or basement and out in front of people,

and you learn very quickly. There is a portion of the world you think you might actually be taking it directly in front of people, but in most cases, you are putting yourself in front of gatekeepers. The ones who decide what goes in front of the people. The people that book bands and performances, the people that play music on the radio and so forth.

At that precise moment, you are changing your musical journey by adding the required component of awareness. Awareness. How do you get noticed? How do you get heard? If you were getting Simon Cowell in the moment, you’d be getting asked, do you have a plan? I’m [00:01:00] over for simplifying this entire career stream.

I get it. But publicity is about the plan a strategy. Jen Fritz is a publicist founder of music marketing and promotional agency, Fritz Media, and a 20 year veteran of the music business. Jen has worked multiple genres with artists at every stage of their career. From indie grassroots to talent with the Seminole, better than Indie, but not quite major network records, see Sarah McLaughlin, and.

Industry giant Sony, she provides the theory that it is a relational industry. It’s who you know, how you get to know them and understanding what everyone needs to be successful. Think of all the industries that are not music, but consumed with gaining public awareness and what a difference a hands-on publicist might make.

This is not a how to a day in the life, career day conversation with publicity. It’s an open door to the west wing of the music [00:02:00] business through kind and honest lenses. My name is Glen Erickson. This is Almost Famous Enough. Thanks for spending your time with us. This is Jen Fritz.

 

 

Glen Erickson: You have to consent? Is that what it is?

Jen Fritz: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: the 3, 2, 1 count. Well, thank you so much, Jen, for taking the time to be here. it’s a real pleasure obviously to have you on here and to talk to you. I’m obviously greatly interested in all parts of the music business and the span and, and pulling the veil back.

And, and this is an area, the area that you work and live in is like one of my favorite areas. So Jen, uh, of Fritz Media since I think I looked up 2009, right? So, publicity, media, pr, uh, I think you describe it as a boutique, music, publicity, [00:03:00] and digital marketing.

Jen Fritz: a nice way of saying small, right?

Glen Erickson: It is. I’ve worked in digital agencies forever. We call ourselves boutique all the time. just so people don’t think we’re corporate

Jen Fritz: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: of the time we try to spin it with a nice word, right? But also, also my peer in the music podcasting space with the FM podcast, which is great. And I hope we get a chance to talk about a little bit here as well.

So I think, actually, let’s just start right there. That’s a better place for me to start.

Jen Fritz: Okay.

Glen Erickson: Um, obviously all this time that you, it’s like, it’s like in our world right now where we’re starting to get suspicious of the companies that supposedly did one thing and now we think they’re just mining us for data.

Like they may be a streaming network like Netflix, but the truth is they could probably sell. All kinds of different data to people. Right. And so you being a publicist, working in the PR world, forming relationships with both [00:04:00] industry people and agents and managers as well as the artists and all these different facets, you’ve been able to mine some relationships and some data yourself, I’m assuming, is that, can I make the assumption that that might have been part of the premise for starting the podcast?

Jen Fritz: Yeah, I mean, it’s a, it’s a tale as old as time in that it started during COVID, uh,

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Jen Fritz: as

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: do you know what I

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: it, it started just as an idea, um, for me to do something creative, uh, outside of my job. And I used to work in radio and I really missed doing it, to be honest. Um, and I actually didn’t realize how much I missed it until I started doing it.

And I was like, oh my God, I totally forgot how much I actually like being behind. A microphone and how much I like, you know, creating audio, um, and doing it from start to finish and putting a show together. I, I really liked it. and then it, it [00:05:00] began to percolate a bit and I was like, well, I can use this as a marketing tool, uh,

Glen Erickson: Mm.

Jen Fritz: for Fritz Media,

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Jen Fritz: which is my, uh, digital marketing and, um, public relations company in the music industry.

And then, um, I also had this other piece, which was education. And, um, I really think that it’s that is lacking so much in our industry right now, and that is the lack of digital literacy, uh, with artists. Um, I deal with

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Jen Fritz: day, um, just with my clients. it’s an industry that has become the tech industry and it is so fast moving that it’s hard to keep up.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: I thought, well, why don’t I just use it for that as well? You know, you can learn about all kinds of things and it’s also, can talk to people that can teach me stuff too. Like, you know, there’s a lot of

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: about in the music industry. Right. So was [00:06:00] kind of a, a cheat for me to,

Glen Erickson: That is a great, that’s a great cheat, actually. Well, I mean, that makes a lot of sense. Uh, like literally, I’m looking at the very last bullet point I had. What did publicists, what did publicists do during the pandemic when all the bands were going out on the road releasing records? So there’s my answer.

Jen Fritz: We were

Glen Erickson: Uh,

Jen Fritz: is

Glen Erickson: already we’re panicking and some people were starting podcasts. Um, I think that’s a great point about the educational part. I was, you know, it is of note to me, like you’re, your podcast, the FM podcast is very topical. Right. And the, the, the titles, you know, make it very clear what, what the guest and you are gonna be talking about, uh, specifically, which I think is really great.

Um, ’cause podcasts do get used a lot this day. They get pitched to bigger businesses as a marketing tool in a similar way to how you described it can help the bottom line for you in a different way, but. Yeah, I think that that true value [00:07:00] point is really interesting for you to bring up about the lack of digital literacy.

Um, did you, I, I seem to feel like, did you attend and and coach or teach mentor at the project? Wild bootcamps. Every, I thought I remember you being a part of

Jen Fritz: yeah.

Glen Erickson: the name and the guest list. ’cause I was always on the committee. I sort of chaired that committee and then I’d build the booklets and all that stuff.

I’m like, I’m sure I’ve printed Jen’s name out on these things before, but, um, and I remember what a,

Jen Fritz: uh, before when it was the Peak

Glen Erickson: with a peak, peak performance. Yeah.

Jen Fritz: well. Yeah.

Glen Erickson: And what a big part. Of those, it was to try to to, to bring artists into that empowerment phase of really understanding what that was. I remember even partway through, ’cause as soon as you said that, that’s immediately sparked for me the conversation with the committee when they’re like, ’cause they had these challenges that the artists would have to do that we’re like career related and contextual hopefully.[00:08:00]

Um, whether it’s like build the, a cool merch thing, it could be as simple as a challenge as that. But, but I remember when we transitioned some where I was saying we need to have a challenge that’s related specifically to them learning how to use their social media properly and to, and to start to read their analytics and to dig into understanding how to understand how to target people and not throw their dollars away on Facebook ads and, and stuff like that.

So, uh, and it, I mean that was 10 years ago

Jen Fritz: Yeah. And

Glen Erickson: And, and plus, so.

Jen Fritz: gotten a lot harder and a lot more difficult to understand. Like if you’re an artist and you look at all of the different ways that you can market yourself, you really kind of don’t know where to start. Right? And

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: it, I just gave this, this talk, uh, in Victoria to a bunch of musicians and I went, went through TikTok and just, you know, put in the search like [00:09:00] marketing ideas,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: market your music, and just the plethora of people with different ideas for how to do that. And you. on every platform. You can do that on Instagram, you can do that on YouTube, and you’ll just have all these people telling you exactly how to market your music and you, so you can look at that and go, oh my God, that’s so overwhelming. Or you can go, oh my God, look at all these different ways I can, you know, find out to

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: myself.

Like you think about, we didn’t have social media, like when I started, there was no social media when I started doing publicity. Right. So

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: was a lot easier. So, um, but also, like I say to musicians, you have this platform where you can reach out to everybody, right? So it’s, try to see the good side of it, uh, because you could be like in the nineties where you didn’t have that.

So it is, you know, I, I recognize that it [00:10:00] is, it’s made my job extremely difficult in a lot of ways. But you know, it is also a good thing. You have a way to reach out to people like right away, which is

Glen Erickson: Well I love this ’cause we’ve literally just danced through three of my seven main bullet points.

Jen Fritz: I

Glen Erickson: Uh, and so this is the way I love, because I love when you’re the interviewer, I get to say this ’cause you’re familiar and all of a sudden you’re like, ah, shit, which way do I go first? But um,

Jen Fritz: What are we

Glen Erickson: totally okay.

That’s what this is about. I, I just love what you’re saying because like my day job. Is like helping run a digital marketing agency and it really comes down to and and it’s amazing how much I time I spend. Even coaching the people who try to sell this stuff who don’t fully understand. Um, the concept we often use is this graph between what we call performance marketing and awareness marketing.

Right? Which, and I think it’s so crucial for bands to understand that. ’cause they really just [00:11:00] start out doing performance marketing, which is like, I have a show coming up. I’m gonna buy X amount of dollars of, you know, ads or whatever this campaign perhaps, or I’m gonna, you know, tailor a, a little campaign around a string of shows or whatever they’re gonna do to promote a release of some sort or a single, but that’s just performance, right?

It just makes the spike go up and as soon as you stop pumping into it, this spike goes right back to where it started. Whereas awareness, the constant pumping into who you are and your brand or, and stuff, makes that, that baseline raise, like on a graph, hopefully if you’re doing it well and doing it right so that all those little spikes don’t go right to the bottom, but they stay with with that line.

So it’s a tough concept for people. And like you said, I think the speed at which it changes so is, is overwhelming. What isn’t overwhelming is if they started to, like you said, went into just two of those platforms and watched those little tutorials, they would start to realize, they’re kind of saying the same thing, [00:12:00] just contextual to I in Spotify or I’m in YouTube, or whatever it may be.

But I mean, especially YouTube, the amount of information they provide to help you is incredible.

Jen Fritz: with Spotify. Spotify has a Spotify for artist platform, which is incredible, and so many artists don’t know about it or don’t

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: capabilities. I. That within it. So many artists like that I work with, um, when, you know, they either know about Spotify for artists and they’ve been using it for years, or they’re just like, what’s that? And I’m like, well, how do you update your Spotify? Like this is how you do it.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: so many, so many artists don’t do the simple things like put their bio in, in their Spotify, uh, or, you know, add their lyrics or include their show dates, um,

Glen Erickson: Yep.

Jen Fritz: a certain release. And these are all things that you can do within Spotify.

Right. And that’s simple. That’s just like the base, that’s the bare minimum [00:13:00] base,

Glen Erickson: And would you say, would you say artists are, is it a fair assumption to say they’re generally afraid of data? Like across, like they don’t, they’re afraid of, they don’t think they can understand it a lot of the time, or do you find they’re kind of warm to it?

Jen Fritz: they don’t know. So, you know, I think that’s, most people, if you don’t feel like you’re educated on a certain subject, you might get a little tense about it or maybe even defensive or, or, or something. Do you know what I mean?

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Jen Fritz: and I mean, it is, I mean, digital marketing isn’t easy, especially using Meta, which is the hardest platform

Glen Erickson: Agreed.

Jen Fritz: to use, and I

Glen Erickson: And they change it. Change it every five months too. Change the rules.

Jen Fritz: yeah.

Glen Erickson: So

Jen Fritz: like, you know, restrict your ad account for no reason, which is what’s currently happening to me. you

Glen Erickson: it’s terrible. It’s the worst. Yeah.

Jen Fritz: Like it’s horrible, but I mean, I need it to, to [00:14:00] run ads.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: yeah. It’s, but it’s, I understand from that perspective it can seem so hard. But at the same time, like any, like, like anything in life, if. You have to have a certain amount of curiosity and internet is available for you to figure things out. You know, I, I learned how to change my car battery by watching a video on YouTube. You know what I mean? Like, there’s,

Glen Erickson: Yep. Yep.

Jen Fritz: so it’s, so if I didn’t, if I don’t know how to do something, then, you know, I, I, you can find a way to, to figure it out.

Uh, I think the problem is, is there’s a variety of different ways, especially with digital marketing. It’s

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: don’t do that ’cause this is wrong, or don’t do this. Uh, you know, so that can be hard.

Glen Erickson: And there’s, and there’s so many artists. Obviously the great swell of artists is in that grassroots category, right? Of, of sort of size. So they’re the ones who are still trying to, well, they’re [00:15:00] essentially forced to do it all themselves. There’s,

Jen Fritz: Yes.

Glen Erickson: wanting to jump on board to do it for them.

They don’t have the money or income streams yet to pay other people. So I think that that’s where, you know, you kind of get this mass chaos of, of this large group of people who are all trying to figure out the same thing, to get that little leg up and, and the pressure of feeling they have to do it themselves.

It, it reminds me, like you said, like kind of the throwback to what. You know, before internet days of, of, uh, of PR and publicity was like, but it, it, it reminds me ’cause the data is everything right now. I’ve gone to a couple of marketing conferences where they’re like, the people who know how to use the data are winning essentially right now.

And, and when I think about that in the music industry, how important that is, especially for artists who are grassroots. I just remember like the early two thousands when you would be overwhelmed about, you know, I got a, I finally landed a show at your favorite club in town and now you [00:16:00] there, you realize they want you to make your own posters and someone would freak out and then, and then you’d just go and you couldn’t pay somebody who made really great posters.

So you would just find somebody who was really eager, you know, who was young and had that skill and was just thrilled to, to be part of the music thing that was happening and would make posters for you. And I feel like it’s kind of similar. There’s people around who are really smart. Younger than us, um, who this comes to really naturally.

I often advise people as well, like you can find people who might just be excited to help you out and, you know, help you find some success online. So, yeah.

Jen Fritz: that’s really good advice and I often use that same advice for things like, um, making videos, content creation. You, everybody’s got a friend that is really great with making videos or just is better at it than you.

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

Jen Fritz: take better photos than you like. So until you can afford it, you know, maybe just throw [00:17:00] your friend a little bit of money to help you create content.

Glen Erickson: Exactly.

Jen Fritz: super easy and I mean, there are a lot of artists and I feel for all of them right now that just aren’t comfortable that front facing

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Jen Fritz: sort of.

Glen Erickson: Content creator job.

Jen Fritz: Yeah. Like, oh, what, I’m a musician and I have to now talk to the

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: as well. And so I understand that it, it can be hard, but as I always say, if you wanna be a musician in 2025, that’s part of the job.

And unfortunately, I have bad news for you. You have to do it. you

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: do something else if you want, but that just is part of the job right

Glen Erickson: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. That’s great advice. Okay, well, so you, we’ve dipped a couple to the back when things started. So let’s just go back to where things started. So my curiosity is how somebody becomes a publicist, right? And, and first, um, [00:18:00] so first, uh, full disclosure is the first publicist I actually asked was Ken Beattie of he’ll Be to Come On, but that’s because Ken was, he was my publicist when I was in a band.

So, uh, but Ken, what. He’s incredible, but he wanted nothing to do with being in front of the camera. His, I think his words were, I’m, I’m happy to get my, my artists, my job is to put them in front of the camera. He’s like, he wanted, he wanted no part of it. Uh, which is totally fair. He is, but he’s a sweet man.

Of course. Um,

Jen Fritz: love Ken.

Glen Erickson: but I, uh, I had quickly discovered when I was in a band, and you get to that phase where people start talking about you might need to build a team, you know, that’s the next level. one of my great discoveries was I became convinced after working with Ken that really the publicist I thought was the first person I should start paying money to outside of what I could do for myself that would have the most immediate impact and value.

So I’ve, I’ve always had a real [00:19:00] high regard for the job of pr, but I think, I don’t know how many people listening. Sometimes I think the media, the only exposure regular people have to what a publicist is, might be. Even like the TV version of like, they’re the ones who do the, the campaigns to try to like, you know, cool over some celebrity gaff for, for their celebrity client who, who did something horrible in the news and now they have to try to like clean all that up or whatever.

So there’s those kind of perceptions about people who do the publicity or the media management role. So, I know you went to school, you, you got a communications degree, like a broadcast thing. So what was, what was Jen’s goal at the start of all this? What did you think you were working towards? Was it radio?

Is that what the,

Jen Fritz: I mean,

Glen Erickson: goal was?

Jen Fritz: anybody that works in the music industry will tell you they got into the music industry because they love music. Right. [00:20:00] And my career started with radio. And I got into radio because I love music and also because I loved radio. I really like audio. Um, am somebody that like, listened to CBC all the time, always had it on in the background.

I just like

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Jen Fritz: that medium. I, I, I always have. And you know, I have been listening to podcasts since the first one started. Uh, it’s like my favorite thing. I love it. Um, I

Glen Erickson: Would that be Grant Lawrence’s? Is that Grant Lawrence’s podcast on, on CZ radio three?

Jen Fritz: of them. Yeah,

Glen Erickson: He was one of them. Yeah.

Jen Fritz: He, they were very quick to be, CDC was very quick to be

Glen Erickson: Yeah. They were very progressive.

Jen Fritz: in the

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: space.

They really are. Um, and yeah, so I’ve just always liked it. I don’t like how they’re moving towards more video now. It’s really quite upsetting to me. But, um, um, yeah, I mean, I just, I, I got into it just because of a, a love of [00:21:00] music and, um, I, I’m a talker, uh, and being a talker is good for radio and it’s also good for being a publicist.

So, you

Glen Erickson: It’s so true.

Jen Fritz: so, and I mean, it’s, being a publicist is a relationships job. It’s just about, you know,

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Jen Fritz: um, making sure, um, you know the right people, you know, the people that you’re pitching your artists to, know, people will like. Uh, certain type of music or certain artists. Um, and yeah, it’s just, it’s, that’s really what it’s all about is, is, is essentially relationships and, you know, keeping those relationships intact.

I mean, that is a lot harder now than it was when I started, when I started there was only a handful of, like, I used to like phone people and pitch them like in the olden

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: and, you know, like call up Stewart Stewart Durain at, uh, [00:22:00] the Vancouver Sun and the Vancouver Province and be like, yo, can you do this? You know? Um, and you know, now unfortunately with the state of journalism, there’s less and less music journalists across this country.

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Jen Fritz: um, there’s also, you know, blogs now to contend with, and those blogs are all over the world, so it’s a lot harder. And then on top of that, you put in like playlist curators.

Uh, it, it just becomes a lot harder to, to keep track of those people.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Well, I mean, the word relations is right in the public relations thing, and, and I think it’s no secret to anybody who’s been. Even a little bit of a foot into the music scene, just how it feels like it quickly is a small community and the who, you know, kind of cliches ring. Very, very true. So, um, I guess one of my curiosities when you were saying that is, um, did you, like what part of it, let me, how do I phrase this one?

There’s, [00:23:00] uh, there’s a, a s smartness, uh, a sliminess that people feel when you to about the, the pitching. Sometimes like, and I don’t mean like other perception, I mean your own perception. I think this is what keeps some people from certain aspects of, of the music industry, right? If you’re that feeling of like, you know, pitching makes people uncomfortable.

So was that just, do you, would you say like that. Uh, I’m a talker. That relational side of viewed, is that something that just kind of made it easy to get over that hump and just kind of go right into feeling comfortable in the area of both building an authentic relationship while you’re also pitching all the time?

Jen Fritz: Yeah. I mean, you know, a lot of, you know, when I started, I actually, when started in the music industry, I left radio and I started doing radio promo, um, at Nettwerk. And so, um, that’s kind of where I started doing what would, you [00:24:00] know, essentially become publicity down the road. But, you know, I knew how to do that because when I worked. In radio, I was a music director at a lot of the stations that I worked at. So I knew what the other side was. I knew what

Glen Erickson: hmm.

Jen Fritz: people sounded like pitching me. So it was easy for me to pitch them because I, I had been doing

Glen Erickson: Yeah. I.

Jen Fritz: And I, there’s nothing that people in radio like talking about more than radio. So all I had to do was just, you know, call ’em up and start doing the latest radio goss. That’s all

Glen Erickson: Mm.

Jen Fritz: And then you just, you know, BS for a bit and then you go, okay, by the way, I have this song, you give it a listen? And that’s essentially how I did all of my pitching, uh, when I started, uh, in publicity.

Same thing. You know, you just get to know these people. You, you

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: BS for a while and then you’re like, okay, by the way, can I, I have something else for you, you know? [00:25:00] Um,

Glen Erickson: gets easier when some of those people stick around a long time. Like I, I like, this is where I’m not plugged in like I used to be, obviously, but I do know for the whole span of when I was aspiring to be in bands and then playing in a touring band and then doing some of the work afterwards, the same names.

The same people were around. Right. So it made it a lot easier where you could call them up and probably then, you know, you, you literally know who their kids are and you can ask how their kids are doing or something after all that time. So you,

Jen Fritz: true.

Glen Erickson: you moved to, so you start doing the publicity thing at Network and that, I assume that’s, is that like early two thousands?

Is that

Jen Fritz: Yeah, early two thousands. So I was at

Glen Erickson: about

Jen Fritz: radio promo, uh, in about 2004. And then. Um, 2003, 2004. And then, um, uh, a couple guys that I worked at Network with left [00:26:00] to start their own company called Frontside Promotions

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: Um, and

Glen Erickson: I.

Jen Fritz: I left and uh, I headed up their publicity, uh, department with like, having like very little experience, but like, we were just like, we’re gonna do this guys, it’s gonna be great.

And it was a company, like we were one of the first, um, a la carte companies. So it

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Jen Fritz: um, you know, this isn’t back in the day where everybody tried to get signed to a major label, but

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: like indie artists. You can hire us just to do radio promo, you can hire us just to do, um, publicity, which, you know, happens all the time now, but back in the day you generally would’ve had to have a, a label to do

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Like that only happened. Yeah. That only happened if you signed the entire deal. Right? Like that was,

Jen Fritz: would

Glen Erickson: you’re right.

Jen Fritz: things in place for you, Al already,

Glen Erickson: There weren’t, there weren’t many boutique shops back in the late nineties

Jen Fritz: now

Glen Erickson: or early two thousands.

Jen Fritz: everybody has label services now, right?

Glen Erickson: Yeah, [00:27:00] exactly.

Jen Fritz: in that day, like back in the day we didn’t.

Glen Erickson: I.

Jen Fritz: uh, yeah, so it, you know, we were basically a startup and, uh, you know, it was fun and I learned a lot, that’s for sure.

Like,

Glen Erickson: Well, you made it sound a little, you made it sound a little Jerry McGuire there with the whole like, we’re just gonna go off and do it ourself now.

Jen Fritz: it wasn’t, yeah, I, I hadn’t been at network that long to, to, for it to be that epic, I don’t

Glen Erickson: Okay.

Jen Fritz: uh,

Glen Erickson: You weren’t, you weren’t the Renee Zel Weger of, of front side.

Jen Fritz: be if you want, but,

Glen Erickson: Um, so we touched on this then, and I, this is where I think it’s, uh, of great curiosity ’cause of what was happening then. And I, and I don’t try to over nostalgic my conversations, but the difference between what publicity and media generating was even in the early two thousands. And then at one point you get to work with Sony, you [00:28:00] know, I think around 2011 or something you said.

Um. In there and you know, and so, and if you think about three pillars of that, like evolution from network to front side and what it was then to that 10 year, eight, 10 year gap to when you’re at Sony and how things had started change, thanks to the internet, to now, which is even post pandemic version of online.

Like those are three pretty significant shifts in a short span of time in how this happens. And the early two thousands, like we were printing shit all the time,

Jen Fritz: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: like what, uh, what did it look like? What is the biggest thing, if you can characterize it from what the job meant then about promoting albums and tours, which was still kind of.

The bread and butter of how things worked and the cycle, so to speak. What was the biggest shift? Was it just the fact that you had these long established platforms and things [00:29:00] were in really tactile, for lack of a better term? Like things were printed, things were scheduled on the radio. Like what, what was the biggest shift that happened out of that time to like your internet time at Sony that, that you would observe?

Jen Fritz: Uh, I would say like back then there was a lot more, Uh, traditional media outlets a lot more. Like at, I would say like at, at every newspaper across Canada at least had an arts writer at least had, like, they may not

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Jen Fritz: writer, but they had an arts writer that would cover it. And that doesn’t exist anymore because we know the state of journalism, right?

It’s just there’s cuts everywhere and it’s really sad. Um, and music journalism is suffering for it. Uh,

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Jen Fritz: I love music journalism myself, so yeah, it’s, it’s really sad. Um, it’s just a lack of people, uh, that are qualified to do it and [00:30:00] more people that are not qualified to do it, that are, are doing it.

You can just like read a number of blogs to see like anybody can do

Glen Erickson: It’s, yeah.

Jen Fritz: it’s not easy. Right. and. then I had to like mail CDs to every

Glen Erickson: Yes.

Jen Fritz: was pitching.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: I, that’s a biggest change is like, you know, digital delivery. I don’t have to do, like, that’s a cost I don’t even have to deal

Glen Erickson: Yeah. What a change in overhead and not worry about all these postal strikes either that are gonna Absolutely ruin your scheduling. Yeah.

Jen Fritz: Just like stuffing envelopes full of like CDs and one sheets and making sure they get to the journalist in the town that your artist is touring in before, like with enough lead time so that you

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: pitch them.

Glen Erickson: Did you know I still have a drawer that I have never really cleaned out, that still has a bunch of padded envelopes that I used to slide the seat seat so [00:31:00] that drawer hasn’t been cleaned out in like 15 years for sure. So,

Jen Fritz: yeah, I’m sure in my storage space. So yeah, that’s like one thing I do not miss and it’s a lot easier to, you know, just

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: now. Thank God. Yeah.

Glen Erickson: like there was a transition, right? Of, you know, we were talking about radio three even and like them getting early on on podcasts. But you know what started happening? The, the decline started even then. Like, like print started in decline well before other things started in decline. And, and so you started to lose access to the exposure that you needed, right?

The building awareness of for, for the artists that you’re representing, for the places they were going to play. and that power, it felt like it kind of started shifting to music blogs kind of started to have quite a bit of power. The people that were writing them started getting invited to be like, judges at Polaris even, or, [00:32:00] right.

So there was this little bit of a shift in power that I kind of noticeably observed that felt like natural ’cause it kind of came with the power that the internet was generating more and more. I guess one of my main curiosities for people listening is. You know, we’ve gone through some evolutions now over the last 15 years of what the internet is, what I feel like the blogs aren’t sourcing that power anymore, but I don’t know if that’s the right perception.

I’m curious what your observation is about where they don’t, they don’t write, people don’t seem to write about albums or music that way anymore, even if they are blogging about something. So I’m just curious what your observation is of where sort of, where that lies, where, where people are going to kinda generate awareness from quote unquote curators or taste makers.

Jen Fritz: Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of different places you can go depending on, you know, your style of music or, or, or what your intention is. [00:33:00] Um, you know, there still is a lot of people writing great music journalism out there. Um, and I think, you know, the, the thing about always want actual editorial and actual feedback on their music.

You know, whether

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Jen Fritz: or bad. that’s what, that’s what they want. So, you know, as a publicist, I am always. My goal is to get you actual editorial. You know, sometimes it doesn’t happen. Sometimes they’ll just take the press release I wrote and copy and paste it into, you know, their blog and, and, and that happens.

But, you know, we are always trying to get people who actually listen to the music and actually write words about it.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: and that can help you. You know, once you get that, once you, let’s say I got you a song review on a blog, and, uh, you can use that quote to promote your music. You can tell other people about it.

Like, once you get a publicist, your job is an over, you still [00:34:00] have to do promotion on your end as

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: you have to take that publicity that you got and tell people, like, go on your Instagram story or, you know, post about it on Twitter or do a TikTok or whatever and just, you know. You have to create part of the buzz.

Another thing that it does, especially if you’re an indie artist just starting out, is you always have to think about someone discovering your music and then Googling you. And what those reviews do is really help your SEO. So, you know, that’s another thing that’s

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Jen Fritz: you know, those are, those are two things that where, where, you know, publicity is very helpful.

Now blogs out there may not, you know, have the impact that Pitchfork did back in the day, or, you know, Pitchfork even has now, you know, or Stereo Gum or any of those, you know, blogs that were so popular. Um, and still are, you know, it is somebody that’s willing to listen to your music and write [00:35:00] about it.

Right? So, so that’s what, that’s what we want. Um, I don’t know if that answers the question,

Glen Erickson: it does. I mean it, I think it raises a good point because kind of what you’re alluding to, like that editorial review or something like that is just, it’s far more organic feeling, right? It’s an actual person taking the time to engage with your music, sit with their thoughts about it, and then put their own version of an honest response or reaction to what that is in, in writing or in video or some version where they put it out there for the public.

Which is very different than what I think feels very, like disheartening to a lot of artists, which is the version out there that is, you know, if I put a whole bunch of content out there, you know, I’m not even just putting it out there specifically for someone to engage with. I’m being told to just put it out there in volume and in regular consistency because that will trigger the [00:36:00] algorithms properly.

That will help my search engine optimization by being found easier. But none of that is about the human connection or that, that artistic connection with somebody. It’s just about driving numbers up and creating better chance and opportunity. I think that’s what feels very disheartening and soul sucking to a lot of, uh, artists who approach it.

So, I mean, I, I guess I say all that to say it’s nice, you know, to hear about. You know, the, the focus still to find somebody and people out there who are interacting and engaging with the actual music that you know, and putting and putting something and putting some version of a response back out there.

Jen Fritz: And I mean, I, still, you know, I’ve been doing this for a long time, but, you know, and sometimes I forget and I just like, I get really excited by, you know, some of my artists who, like, we get something really big come in and they’re so excited and, and I just, I forget about that that it [00:37:00] is, you know, a really big deal or somebody will write really nice words about, you know,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: person’s song.

And I, I forget how much that means. That can mean to somebody. And, you know, publicity to it, I should say, is just one piece of the pie

Glen Erickson: Yep.

Jen Fritz: to like, marketing your music. Now you said that, you know, it generally is the first service that a artist or a band will. their money on, um, you know, that may, that used to be the case.

Now it’s either a publicist or digital marketing dollars or a little

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Yeah.

Jen Fritz: they’ll, they’ll either decide or they’ll do a mix of both. Right. Um, you know, which I make sense. Makes sense. There’s not a lot of money to go around these days, so I totally, I, I, I, I totally get that. But I always have to remind artists that just because you have a publicist, that’s not it.

Like you are acting as the label. Right.

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Jen Fritz: [00:38:00] a lot of different departments at the label and publicity is just one of them. So you still have to do a lot of work

Glen Erickson: It’s, it’s, it’s one of the layers, right? And you can’t, you can’t, you just can’t afford to only work on one layer at a time anymore. You, you have to work on all of them, it seems at the same time. Maybe that’s what it always was, but maybe there just was a, a different dream of having people do it for you in the, in the earlier days, that, uh, feels a little harder to achieve.

I’m curious, like, you sort of referenced, like when you still get excited about artists, you’ve been doing this for a really long time. So I’m gonna ask you a two side of the coin question and I’m, I’m gonna be, I’ll be honest with you, Jen, like I just, I’m notorious for just making this up when I go along.

So this wasn’t some premeditated thing, but, so I’m curious, on one side of the coin, what’s some of the biggest maybe wins or the biggest sort of exciting I. [00:39:00] Things that have happened in your career with artists that you kinda look back and you’re like, that was a really cool thing to be part of as a publicist.

Jen Fritz: Hmm, Hmm. I could do like a recent one. right now,

Glen Erickson: Sure.

Jen Fritz: working, uh, an artist, uh, by the name of Dust Quain. Um, and they’re a drag performer as well as, uh, a musician. And, um, this is the second record that I’ve done for dust and just watching the Star rise, uh, I can feel it already. Uh, we have, are only on single one for the record, and it just feels big and their excitement makes me excited.

Like, I feel like I, you know, just that ex I, I can’t explain it. It honestly makes me feel like I just started. It being a publicist again, like sometimes you get so jaded in this [00:40:00] industry where,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: where you’re just like, ugh. You know, you can always tell a, someone in the music industry at a concert we’re standing at the back.

Right. But, um, I mean, that’s not me really. I am a

Glen Erickson: Arms crossed. Yeah.

Jen Fritz: But yeah. But it just really made me genuinely excited

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Jen Fritz: music again, just to see something like start at the bottom, not at the bottom, but just like, they started like just releasing music and didn’t know what would happen or were genuinely scared. And now to just be like, people are really excited. So, know, it’s, it’s, it is really exciting.

Glen Erickson: But that’s kind of what it’s about, right? Like that and, and it’s kind of a vicious cycle because, you know, I mean, we live with music every day. There’s, we have our loves. Everybody has their loves. Whether you know what’s going on in the business, whether, you know, even how to put two notes together or not.

Like everybody has their loves of [00:41:00] music. There’s, there’s a nice baseline, but then there’s this excitement cycle that’s a part of the music business. And, and we try, we try to manufacture that. When you’re in the business really hard, you try to figure out how to capture lightning in a bottle. And, and if anybody really sits on a panel, they’re, and talks about it, they’re usually the ones to say, I don’t actually know, man.

I don’t like, I don’t really know how to capture. But that’s what we try to do is generate that excitement, for people and the things that we get excited about. So I think it’s cool that you get to still have those experiences and, and I.

Jen Fritz: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: Not, there’s not too thick of a wall to get through for that. I, I have, um, I’ve been having fun in that, my daughter is participates on this podcast with me.

We do like a little post epilogue section just talking about the, she li she listens afterwards and then we talk about it and then we share. ’cause our thing is to share music. So I’m between seasons as we’re recording this. And, [00:42:00] and so I’ve been, we’ve just been producing a little miniseries of just sharing music and it’s such a, uh, it’s just, I think everybody needs it in their life that like, share music with people, let somebody else get you excited, uh, about music, about new things and, and listen to new things and, and even if listening to new things is about old things.

So, um, you discover it.

Jen Fritz: Like all of the young people in my life, like I don’t have kids, but I have a lot of nieces. Right. So, uh, it’s, that, that’s the thing I always share, you know, with ’em, is, you know, I’m just the cool aunt that likes music, right? And, and we can go to concerts together. And I am actually genuinely amazed how much they listen to old music, uh,

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

Jen Fritz: they’re into like, yeah.

Like just into bands from the nineties that I loved in the nineties, and like to be able to be like, oh my God, have you heard of this band? Like,

Glen Erickson: yeah.

Jen Fritz: Or just like, they know all the words to a Liz [00:43:00] Fair song, inexplicably. Like, I don’t, I don’t

Glen Erickson: So my, my son is, uh, he’s a little, he’s older and, you know, university age and has never sort of had the same kind of unique passion music wise that

Jen Fritz: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: I connect with my daughter around. Uh, but he loves his music. So the funny part to me is ’cause he’s never been a rock and roll guy. But he’s been getting into the gym with his friends and he is influenced by their playlists.

And he’ll come back to me the other day. He was like, and he, it’s like he’s testing me to see if I know who these artists are. And then I think I might actually, for a moment I’m scared, like, ’cause I don’t want to get it wrong, and he might stump me, but then he starts playing it for me and I’m like, that’s Seven Nation Army by White Stripes.

Dude. Like, give me a hard one. Like they’re just listening to heavy music in the gym. I didn’t get too stumped, but I love if I, I [00:44:00] love if like younger people do connect with something that they feel, I think inherently they’re feeling like it connects with something that they already know and love and have experienced, and then they’re finding it, um, which is no different than going vintage shopping or something like that.

So I think that’s pretty cool.

Jen Fritz: right?

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Yeah.

Jen Fritz: it

Glen Erickson: It’s,

Jen Fritz: there, right?

Glen Erickson: it’s timeless. Yeah.

Jen Fritz: yeah. Yeah,

Glen Erickson: Okay. So Jenna, let me ask you, on the other side of the coin though, has, in, in this, career, you get to see a lot of stuff, and I don’t know whether you’ve got to be part of the cliche i I described earlier where you’ve had to like, do this scramble, holy shit, I need to like, start fixing what somebody said or something like that in the media.

But I’m curious if you’ve had times that were, like, things that you saw or events that happened that ever made you be like, yeah, I don’t know if I, if it’s changing too much, if I still want to be a part of [00:45:00] this, or whether that has never happened for you.

Jen Fritz: Um, I’ve been lucky to not have any huge, uh, lenders or things I had to cover up with my clients. I mean, have been some things like, um, politically motivated things, uh, that we kind of had to smooth over, but for the most part, I, I haven’t had to deal with that. I

Glen Erickson: Hmm

Jen Fritz: I mean, I work with artists that are, you know, fairly indie and if they were, I do a pretty good check when I start working with them and, you know, make sure that our values align.

Um, and that, you

Glen Erickson: hmm.

Jen Fritz: They’re not gonna do something that I’m going to have to, you know, make

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: for or, you know, potentially just end our working relationship because of it, which can also

Glen Erickson: Yeah. And es and especially [00:46:00] Lose sleepover, which, um. It

Jen Fritz: it’s, I

Glen Erickson: fun.

Jen Fritz: no, it’s, it’s definitely not, I mean, I think artists, especially the younger generation, is fairly aware of how cameras are always on. Um,

Glen Erickson: Mm.

Jen Fritz: really think that affects them in a big way, like in ways that we won’t realize, uh, until down the road. Um, I think that’s, you know, maybe part of the reason why the youth don’t drink as much. I mean, the price too. But I Can you imagine like all of the drunken,

Glen Erickson: we, we’ve,

Jen Fritz: that you did and what, being scared that somebody was recording it, like.

Glen Erickson: yeah. I don’t know if there’s any of my old music buddies that we haven’t had this conversation. Right. Of, yeah. Of what that would be like. I, so I was always the sober guy. I didn’t drink, so I got the, I got the firsthand observation though, [00:47:00] of. How things escalated, how things spun, how, yeah. The things I’ve seen.

You know, and that’s not excluding me from all kinds of stupid behavior while I was sober for Pete’s sake.

Jen Fritz: course.

Glen Erickson: but we all, yeah, we all share that sentiment. I’m wondering it, I’m, I’m hoping this is okay to ask, like, doing the podcast, we, we talked to the start about how you, you and I were like, you get the opportunity also to hear from people and learn while you talk to people in a podcast.

Um, and just doing my first season, it’s consistently come up. I’ve had conversations, um, uh, with, with females, artists generally, but not just some people in the industry. And inevitably there’s a conversation about gender bias and inequality and inequity, I should say, even in, in things. And I’m curious because.

Yeah, I have an observation, but I’m very aware that I’m a dude making this [00:48:00] observation, which is I’ve known F far more female publicists than I have male. Just in a very generic, super generic observation, and I’m wondering if that’s accurate or not, and if there’s a reason why per, perhaps women are really great at publicity, I don’t know.

And I’m wondering, most of all is in your part of the industry that you encounter. I’m wondering if you encounter the similar things a lot or because you’ve had this span of time, you’ve been able to work and have this career, if you’ve seen any shifts or changes in that, if that’s fair to ask.

Jen Fritz: Yeah, I mean, first of all, I think that being a publicist is just a really gendered, for some reason, it just, as women, I don’t know why it is, it’s just one of those jobs that,

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Jen Fritz: 10. I mean, there’s a, there’s a lot of male publicists, but it is typically, uh, a, a, a woman doing the job. I don’t know why that is.

I mean, we’re really good [00:49:00] project managers, uh, for one. So I think

Glen Erickson: true, very true.

Jen Fritz: probably part of it, you know, uh, it is a very project management heavy, like you have to be organized as hell. So I think that that’s probably why,

Glen Erickson: would good. I, I, I know a lot of women that are just naturally good writers and I don’t know whether that maybe has something to come out of it as well, but

Jen Fritz: for sure, you know, all of those things. I, I have no idea why, but it just is. Maybe, it’s just one of the only jobs they let us have at the beginning of the music industry. know,

Glen Erickson: That’s okay. We’re laughing, but that’s terrible to say. Let us have, that’s just awful. Right.

Jen Fritz: you

Glen Erickson: I, no, I’m not saying it’s not true. I get what you’re saying,

Jen Fritz: it’s like I, you know, I’ve been in the music. Industry for I think just over 20 years now. So

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Jen Fritz: I’ve seen some change and we are obviously in a much better place, um, both for [00:50:00] women in positions in the music industry and for, women artists as as well. There’s a lot more of them, which I love to see.

I think that that’s incredible and I hope that continues. Um, and there’s a lot of, um, women within our industry in Canada that have done a lot of heavy lifting to, to make that happen. Those things

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: by themselves. Uh, they don’t happen without, you know, women before me pulling me up. Um, and or my generation pulling the people up as well. Uh, all of that stuff is really important

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Jen Fritz: it’s becoming, um. A lot more understood that, uh, you know, having gender equality doesn’t mean you, you lose something as you know, uh, you know, a white, cis, hetero white man, you know what I mean? Like,

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Jen Fritz: something by giving other people opportunity.

Glen Erickson: not[00:51:00]

Jen Fritz: we don’t live in a meritocracy and we never did. And so, um, if you think that you got your job at the top, and I’m speaking to the universal, you, uh, as a white man, because you were the best person for it, like I’m here to tell you that is not the case. So, you know, there’s.

Glen Erickson: a hundred percent.

Jen Fritz: But

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: You know, and there’s a lot of people that can do that job, um, and they might be different color than you.

Uh, they might be a different gender, different, you know, sexual orientation, whatever it is. Uh, they might be disabled. All of these things all factor in to equality. Um, and so, yeah, I think in the music industry, which is, you know, I typically a place that hasn’t been really kind to, to, you know, not just women, but,

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Jen Fritz: minorities across the board. Um, uh, we are in a, a way better place. And I, I [00:52:00] didn’t,

Glen Erickson: Hmm

Jen Fritz: know, and my ears are thankful for it because of the amount of music that I get to

Glen Erickson: hmm.

Jen Fritz: from artists that I wouldn’t get to hear. Otherwise, and also the women within the industry who are working incredible jobs, um, not just as publicists, but as, um, artist managers working in the live space, you know, doing all sorts of things, uh, within the music industry that, you know, have been typically dominated by men.

I like to see that,

Glen Erickson: Well, I really appreciate that. That’s a really, that’s a really great response. And, um, it makes me ask another question, though, ’cause, um, I’m always, no, it’s not, it’s not crazy. It’s just I’m really interested in learning. So I’ve been able to see, I, I’ve been able to, ’cause since starting the podcast, I, paying more attention to different things, uh, particularly the way people are promoting or pitching themselves or even the pitches that I get.

Um, [00:53:00] there was a time where you would never pitch yourself as, uh, a queer artist. You would never pitch yourself right as a, as a indigenous or a Metis artist, or you would, you just wouldn’t put a tag that identified you as the other because you just spent your whole life, you know, unfortunately, trying to like evade that tag and to blend in or make your life easier from the people that would make it difficult.

Um, but I’m seeing more and more and I think I’m seeing, and I guess I’m just asking you as an expert in your field, if, if that’s an accurate observation that people are owning those things that used to be or felt problematic perhaps, uh, in the past. Is that, is that an accurate observation?

Jen Fritz: Yeah, I mean, if the artist, uh, sees themselves as being queer as part of their artistic, you know, experience For sure. I mean, [00:54:00] it’s a conversation that I have with my artists. I mean, some queer artists would prefer if it wasn’t there, because that’s not part of. You know, their music. Like, they

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Jen Fritz: wanna lead with it, I guess, but

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

Jen Fritz: that’s not to say that it’s wrong if you do, uh, it just really depends on what your artistic expression is,

Glen Erickson: yeah.

Jen Fritz: and, and where you’re coming from. Um, and it just has to feel authentic to who you are. That’s, that’s really it. I think when we get into trouble sometimes with marketing is when people can kind of feel that they’re being marketed to, like,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: like just as an example is, you know, uh, companies all of a sudden deciding the to, you know, queer it up during the month of June, you know, uh,

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

Jen Fritz: Like,

Glen Erickson: that’s,

Jen Fritz: that that’s where we are. But you know, that you’re just being, they only care about you [00:55:00] one month, right?

Glen Erickson: There are th

Jen Fritz: it

Glen Erickson: 30 days in Ally, and that’s, that’s it. Yeah.

Jen Fritz: that’s, that doesn’t feel authentic, right? So you just have to make sure you’re coming from a place that’s truly you and just, you know, if expressing yourself as an artist by using those, you know, identifiers works, then let’s do it.

And I think you know that, that’s great. I think it’s great

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: a world that we can do that now I

Glen Erickson: Well, and we, we already talked about the next generation, but I think that’s one of the other beautiful things about them is they love to try to hold companies and corporations accountable for whether they are 365 days in Ally or just showing up. You know, on the parade weekend. So,

Jen Fritz: With

Glen Erickson: uh, yeah. But that’s great.

That’s great that they wanna hold people accountable for authenticity that way. I think it’s awesome. And it’s funny, like it’s, it’s funny to me, I’m gonna say it and be clear that it’s funny to me because I’m, I’m an [00:56:00] older cis white male, who grew up actually in a super conservative Christian background.

my like, radical, earliest, radical steps were just to listen to Christian rock and roll.

Jen Fritz: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: and I mean, my earliest exposure to all this though, it’s like super, not, there’s nothing oppressive as in that bubble that the way we’re talking about what’s happened in these other people’s lives. But the comparable to me was always watching how much bands, when they got more successful, did not want the Christian label.

Right. They would always be like, it’s just my music man. This is just about my music. And then that’s just that, you know, that’s just me and my life and what I believe, or, or I think, and, yeah, I I maybe part of my original question was just like his, we’re moving into an era where it just feels like there’s such a challenge with how blended people wanna be in the music.

Seen with their political beliefs, like what is happening. Like, uh, Dan [00:57:00] Mangans social is very interesting the last couple of days because he’s been publicly posting the comments he gets of people telling ’em to just stick to the music and to stop being political. And, and he’s leaning, he’s leaning into it, of course, which is typical Dan and I think is fantastic.

But, you know, I think there’s a, a challenge in that blending. And I guess part of my curiosity, you already said you talk to artists in advance, but I’m wondering what the challenge is for you in publicity about how you navigate that with an artist making their choice? I’ve got friends in the band, Hotel Mira, and the, the lead singer is also very vocal.

Jen Fritz: a stand. Yeah,

Glen Erickson: Yeah. And yeah.

Jen Fritz: I am, I, I’ve been watching a, like I watch artist socials quite a bit and, um, I know Dan quite well, so I, uh, I, I’ve actually talked to him about, you know, how he made the conscious choice to, to start being a lot more political.

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Jen Fritz: I, I think that’s fantastic. Um, I think [00:58:00] that if, you know, being political is part of who you are, and I think in this time it’s really important, um, to do it, but to know that there probably are gonna be consequences because not everybody believes in everything you say. Like outside of politics, right?

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: you know, you, you have to be ready for the pushback and, you know, depending on what, you know, you’re, you’re vocalizing like if you’re, um, you know, being pro-Palestine, uh, that is gonna have real world consequences, unfortunately. But I think that that sort of activism is very, very important, um, in, in, in this day and age. Um, but yeah, like a, again, like Hotel Mira, they started doing it and I’m so glad, it is, it does have

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: on, on what happens. Um, it had an effect on me too. Like I, I posted on my own stories and [00:59:00] I, I, uh, no, you know, people were screen capping ’em and, you know, showing, so I just was like. You, you, you panic a little bit.

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

Jen Fritz: And know, it’s really scary, but you have to just be firm in who you are and, you know,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: do your values mean more? Or like for me it’s easy because I run my own company. Um, so I can make those decisions. You know, maybe I’m gonna lose some business because of it, but I’m making, I know that going into

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: And as an artist, I don’t fault an artist that doesn’t want to do it because they’re afraid of losing opportunities. It’s a very hard business. you know, uh, but I do commend artists that, you know, do do it and are brave enough

Glen Erickson: And it’s dicey for all the things we’ve already talked about, right? The, you know, artists having to be content creators. Well, what happens if you start making your content some of these other [01:00:00] things and it starts to affect all the rest of it, and it starts to change your brand, for lack of a better term.

And yeah, and, but the pressure, again, because it’s a global world of all of these messages going out as well. So, uh, definitely I think the new world feels a lot harder to navigate. In my perception then that, that, that old world, um, where I could,

Jen Fritz: is.

Glen Erickson: opinions that just stayed with my band mates maybe.

And, um, that’s difficult for, I think for a lot of people to, to wrestle with now. But I definitely applaud the ones that do. And even the fact he talked about the way publicity used to not, yeah, I mean all of those services were label services. You only got them if you got a record deal with a company that did all the things.

There wasn’t a version of, of parsed out label services and the pressure back then if, because they would comfortably tell the [01:01:00] artist how to behave. Right. And, and as an artist you kinda had to fall in line because the whole thing goes away. You know, if I don’t stay in line with this one thing,

Jen Fritz: yeah,

Glen Erickson: um, which is very different than at least the control and the power being back in the artist’s hand.

Now, if they, you know, our choosing. You know, to align, say with an agency like yourself that would align with their values and, and, and have that power back, which I think is a really positive thing. So,

Jen Fritz: yeah. It’s

Glen Erickson: yeah.

Jen Fritz: I mean, you just have to be, you know, just be yourself and if you know what you’re posting is truly what you believe and is authentic to you, then you just have to, that’s just the way it is. If you lose an agent or whatever because of it, you have to know that going in. Do you know what

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: you

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

Jen Fritz: you have to know that when you post stuff that is. Divisive, which politics are like more than ever these [01:02:00] days. You have to know that it

Glen Erickson: yeah.

Jen Fritz: some people off. There’s a reason that Taylor Swift doesn’t say one way or the other. Um, you know, so, and you know, she could, she’s already a billionaire, but you know, she wants to continue to make those billions, so,

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That’s a unique pressure none of us seem to understand yet, but, well, Jen, let’s, um, let me ask you this and then we can wrap up. I appreciate your time and insights into all these things. I think you have such a unique position and opportunity to be able to speak towards a lot of them, and a lot of truth.

so we started off talking about the podcast that you do the FM podcast and that it’s very topical and you enjoy the educational part, which is kind of the cool thing. ’cause I found myself very quickly starting to scan and looking. Ally for things like where I would want to start in that list of the things that interest me.

Right.

Jen Fritz: Yeah.[01:03:00]

Glen Erickson: I’m curious for you sort of with what you know and what you’ve learned, or maybe it was just the way it happened in your own podcasts. I asked you before to talk about some highlight things. I’m, I’m curious in your podcasting, what has stood out, whether it was a topic that you’ve gotten a lot of response to or whether it was a particular conversation with somebody.

I’m wondering what stood out to you as like, this is really important. This is, this turned out to be a really dynamic, important, either topic or conversation.

Jen Fritz: I think it’s probably the conversations that I have with people that a life that I have no idea what it’s like. So, you know, talking to an indigenous artist or talking to a black artist, um, you know, about their music, but also about their experience. I think that those are the ones that are the best conversations.

Um, and because I have no idea what that experience is like,

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Jen Fritz: [01:04:00] I I’m just a white lady, right? So it is, um, you know, or even a queer artist, you know, I’m a heterosexual cis woman or a trans artist, you know, it’s like there’s so many different, you know, types of artists out there and, you know, that the. That is just who they are, but it

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Jen Fritz: of, you know, them making their music. Um, I, I find those conversations to be the most interesting from, from my perspective anyway. Yeah. There has, I mean,

Glen Erickson: Is.

Jen Fritz: there’s a lot of good ones I like, I, I like, I just like them when, when the people like to chat. Do you know what I mean?

Glen Erickson: Oh a, yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah,

Jen Fritz: just like, alright, this took a turn. I’m just gonna throw these questions away because apparently we’re just gonna have a conversation. You know what I

Glen Erickson: yeah,

Jen Fritz: Like, sometimes I’ll have it all typed out as you know, and

Glen Erickson: yeah,

Jen Fritz: it just doesn’t matter anymore and you’re just having a, a [01:05:00] conversation.

And I, those are my favorite ones, you

Glen Erickson: yeah,

Jen Fritz: it’s just like, I don’t need to look at the questions I had written out anymore. Obviously we’re just gonna see where this takes us ’cause I got no idea. And there’s like. You know from doing it, there’s nothing worse than when you start and you can tell they’re not a talker and you’re gonna have to do, those are the ones that scare me the most,

Glen Erickson: Well,

Jen Fritz: where you just like, oh my God,

Glen Erickson: no, that’s so true. Like so one of the earliest guys I worked with, so I worked with Andy Shauf. I basically, I, I found him on, you know, on, um, I just lost the name of whatever, the famous internet thing that we were all on before Facebook as musicians. But anyhow, we found him,

Jen Fritz: MySpace,

Glen Erickson: and Saskatchewan guy, anyhow, started working with him early, had that relationship and I’ve thought like, maybe I ask Andy to come back on and talk and [01:06:00] then, Andy just doesn’t like to talk.

I mean, I don’t think that’s changed from when I knew him a dozen years ago either. Uh, really Well, and I remember seeing him at, at one of these western Canadian music award festivals that was at Edmonton, maybe it was 2017. Um, and he was on a panel with his, his manager, talking about the artist manager relationship.

And I saw him in the hallway and I was like, what are you doing, man? Like, you don’t. You don’t like to talk and now you’re on a panel. And we had a good laugh about it, but, uh, I totally agree. Like, it’s a lot easier to do the podcast when, when someone is like, excited to talk and, and, and just roll with it and, and see where it goes.

So, um, is is the hardest thing being a publicist, so many people, if somebody asks you what your current favorite is, do you feel like it’s impossible to, you feel like you’ll get trapped if you try to talk about your favorite music and then, and then yeah.

Jen Fritz: I always like, [01:07:00] ’cause I. I’m a total podcast, or not podcast, a playlist maker. And, uh, every year I make a playlist of my favorite songs and I just add to it throughout the year. And then, you know, sometimes a song will stay on and sometimes it’ll come off. And then at the end of the year, it’s just like, these are my favorite songs of the year.

And I always have to have a caveat I don’t put any of my artists on the playlist because I, I, I can’t like what you like

Glen Erickson: You can’t blur the line at all.

Jen Fritz: well, because otherwise I have to put all of them on. Right. And so then that’s a different playlist. Right. So

Glen Erickson: yeah.

Jen Fritz: it’s, when I talk about new music, it’s generally. Here’s my artist. Like these are the artists that I’m working with. Oh my God, you have to hear this. This is, and then there’s also like, just like other music, it’s

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: they’re, they do blur, but I kind of try keep them a little bit separate in a way, [01:08:00] I guess.

Glen Erickson: well, I mean the very fact that you take things off as you go through the year, I think already makes you a unique kind of person. I don’t know a lot of people who have the discipline or the de the, the desire or whether it’s just the control controlness of it to go and actually curate.

Jen Fritz: I listen to the playlist all the time, right? So sometimes I’ll be like, okay, I’m done with that song. You

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jen Fritz: that’s not gonna make it to the end of the year. And sometimes it’s just because the song came out in January. January and unfortunately it’s not gonna make it.

Glen Erickson: I just think it’s incredible. Most people add and then that’s it, that’s their only activity on Spotify. So, uh, I think that’s an incredible trait to learn about you, Jen. So, um, I, uh, well that’s really obvious. That’s absolutely obvious. So I really appreciate you taking the time, uh, to do this outta your day and, um, even, you know, whatever you got going on, and maybe you’re at 60, I think I saw 60 episodes on your [01:09:00] podcast now or more,

Jen Fritz: We’re gonna

Glen Erickson: which is great.

Jen Fritz: new season soon. Like when I started the podcast, I was gonna do it every week and then I quickly saw how hard it was. I did like 20 episodes and then I was like, okay, I’m gonna do seasons now, because I was like, holy shit.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, I was similar but different. I was like, I’m gonna do seasons, but then I’m like, I. I, I was the rookie who was like, I’m gonna try to make this go longer than what any, and so everyone around me was like, are you, are you gonna be done? Are you gonna finish your season? Are you gonna take a break?

Because it was getting hard to keep it rolling as a side hustle. And um, yeah, I got to 16 and then I was like, this feels like a natural, I’m taking a break. So, yeah. But

Jen Fritz: I’m starting a new season soon and I only do 10

Glen Erickson: that’s great.

Jen Fritz: a season. But yeah, it’s coming up soon. So just follow Fritz Media on all socials [01:10:00] to find out when, or you can follow me on Instagram at Jenny Fritz. Uh, yeah,

Glen Erickson: Awesome.

Jen Fritz: it’s really easy to find me.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Awesome. Well, I hope that they do and I hope everybody goes and checks it out. I feel no version of competition with your music podcast. I think it’s incredibly, like the topics, I already said this, but I think it’s really well done. I think that people that are on there have some great insights.

I think what you’re doing is necessary and awesome, and I hope everybody

Jen Fritz: Thank

Glen Erickson: out the FM podcast as well. And if artists are listening, Fritz Media is a great company. I’ve had so many friends that have worked with you over the years and nobody has ever, ever said a bad thing about, about you, Jen, or about working with Fritz Media.

So it’s true. It’s absolutely true. I have never heard a bad thing, so, um.

Jen Fritz: Glen.

Glen Erickson: That’s pretty great. So yeah,

Jen Fritz: well. I, I, I don’t, I don’t know you well, so I can’t say the same. I don’t,

Glen Erickson: I’ll take it. It’s fine.

Jen Fritz: But I’m sure people say nice things about you all the time.

Glen Erickson: I’m sure maybe they do, but, uh, it’s all good. Uh, it’s funny, the business, we like to know the same people, you know, the same people without knowing each other. So it’s the way it is. But, uh, thanks again for your time and your insight. I appreciate and I wish you all the best in your company. I look forward to maybe seeing you around at some of the, the things, the things, maybe the big things where people get together,

Jen Fritz: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: okay.

Jen Fritz: in a room together soon, I’m sure.

Glen Erickson: That will be great. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it, Jen. Okay, bye.

 

 

alexi: Oh, I found it. Hey, I see what you did. A fake friend.

Glen: it’s funny.

alexi: What?

Glen: It’s funny. What is that? Oh,

alexi: You think that’s

Glen: why? Why? It’s great.

alexi: you think I look beautiful? Makes me look

Glen: Well, it’s a weird, no, you can’t just say, just ’cause you’re doing the like. It is like the flashlight in the dark trick for telling a spooky story that doesn’t make you look 30 pounds heavier.

alexi: It kind of does.

Glen: I agree to disagree. Okay.

alexi: Okay.

Glen: Well, you said you have lots to talk about, so let’s talk. What do you have to talk about today?

alexi: The first,

Glen: Talk to me.

alexi: the first thing I was gonna say to you is I finished listening to the [01:11:00] episode just now I went back a little bit ’cause sometimes I forget things, but I feel like I had a couple points when I was listening that I was making mental notes of, of like, oh, we could chat about this, we could chat about that. And then you. I’m gonna say boldly, you made it seem like it was bold of you to ask, but ask her about your observation that more women were in her role, in your perspective. And I was like,

Glen: I felt like I’ve seen more female publicists and whether she concurred with that.

alexi: And she did right? Like she. Mostly concurrent. I don’t

Glen: Yeah.

alexi: and I was like, oh, like I found, I found that bit very interesting and I was like, Hmm, I’m not gonna bring it up.

Like we’ve already done the whole woman talk like once or twice. then it was interesting ’cause you were getting into the why, I thought was really [01:12:00] interesting to hear, like your thoughts as. A male and then her kind of response. and the first thing that came into my head when you brought it up was organization and that was hit right away.

Is that like lot of like women are program managers ’cause they can manage a program, um, which like.

Glen: Like, like you’re, oh, you’re identifying how what came up? Yeah. Okay. So what you’re saying is like the thing that was in your mind that just was an instinctual response as to why, uh. If there’s some version of, not a negative version of gender stereotype about how one gender might excel at some things more

alexi: the

Glen: or,

alexi: generally, not like more than, not in a comparison way, but just like a lot of women are. And so that was the first thing that came to my mind. And then you guys hit it right away. But the other

Glen: Okay.

alexi: thought of that you guys didn’t hit [01:13:00] and but your conversation made me think of, um, and it kinda leads back to other conversations you had with females who, like are in the spotlight, like, I feel like girls generally raised, um. Not by like their parents, but like raised by like in a society in a way that they grow up much more observant of their own actions, but how they’re perceived and what’s being perceived around them. Um, which is why I also think that girls are way more susceptible to like trends. Like right, when people think of like trends, like trendy clothing and trendy hair, all of that you think of like women. Um, but I, I wonder. I don’t know. Your conversation made me wonder like if girls are raised to be more observant of like what’s cool and like what’s popular because they’re observing like what’s being picked up around them because they’re thinking about themselves in like social situations and they’re [01:14:00] raised to watch themselves, like maybe women also, and not even in comparison, but just generally excel in that kind of a role, like a publicist because they’re watching.

Glen: Because of their awareness skills.

alexi: skills and like, maybe it is a comparison

Glen: Yeah.

alexi: but like, I don’t know, I, from 20 years, like, I don’t know a lot of guys who grew up like, like that way, like, like the way that

Glen: No, I know what you’re saying.

alexi: So I’m like, maybe that’s

Glen: Well, I think what’s,

alexi: go ahead.

Glen: no, go ahead. Sorry.

alexi: just gonna say like

Glen: I was gonna say,

alexi: like

Glen: well.

alexi: skill.

Glen: No, it is I, well, I think what’s interesting, what you’re pointing out, and this isn’t all of the story, so I wanna make it really clear, but what that makes me, what that makes me think of that’s interesting is that part of what you’re alluding to, at least in my mind, is a set of skills that are conditioned.

Right, which is different than, um, ’cause I [01:15:00] started off by saying the question, are you like suggesting just those sort of stereotypical gender-based abilities as if like they’re just inherent to, you know, which version, which version of sex you’re born as or something. Um, which again. We’re using only two

alexi: Yeah.

Glen: you know, the way people even understand that now, but, but you’re sort of alluding to, but, and I think it’s actually really interesting is a conditioned set of skills because of how they’re raised in different societies, you know, and in our world, in our societies, which have been going for a while long enough to have conditioned women to either, as you’re saying, have.

Strong perception skills, uh, strong observation skills, um, strong organization skills, whatever those things that they end up being conditioned, which, you know, and the reasons for those conditions are would be obviously [01:16:00] hours of conversations, um, as to where that comes from. But I do think that it’s an observable thing.

I think that is true. Um.

alexi: Yeah.

Glen: and you’re right in the sense that, you know, again, like I can only have my personal understanding from how I was raised, you know,

alexi: Yeah.

Glen: a male. And um, and then what I’ve tried to learn or understand or observe, which is different and that. You know, it’s true when it comes to perception and observation skills and whether or not I had to be hyper-focused on what people thought about me, or even down to kind of core themes of like how that, um, how that weaves into validation and my reason.

That I think for being or, or having attention or getting validation or those sort of core needs that all of us as people have that I, and many of the people I grew [01:17:00] up with, I’m making the assumption kinda as men, relatively in comparison, skated through a lot of life without a hyper awareness or a hyper focus.

On, um, on those things. So all of those things contribute to a conditioning and, and it sort of ties into what she said. So the part that really hit me since we’re talking about all this, and I don’t know why, it just like, it just sat with me. But I love the fact that she’s sort of just, bold enough to call it out.

Um, which is great because like we know each other, we’re not necessarily friends. Friends, right. And so, you know, people might not always go on someone else’s podcast that they’re not friends, friends with and just say it like it is. So I really admire that. And the part that she really told it like it is, was, uh, basically saying to a lot of men out there that if you think that the position you have is because you earned it, you’re fooling yourself.[01:18:00]

And that’s really admittedly hard to hear as a man because, you know. The, the truth is like all of us are people, right? And we’re all humans. And I’m wrestling and struggling every day in my and in my entire life, right? And I want to be validated and I want to be understood. I want to be seen, I want, I want to do something and feel like I did it well, and I want that acknowledgement of other people if I can, because it meets kind of a human core.

Anyhow, all of those things. It’s hard because you feel that piece. Get invalidated if somebody says that. Right.

alexi: Yeah.

Glen: But let me, the, the important thing is the both and which is where I’m really settling into these days, is that, so the truth is that’s hard to hear for a good reason because I’m just a person who’s worked really hard and I want, and I feel like I’ve earned [01:19:00] the things I’ve had to work hard for.

But I should also be able to recognize that this whole entire other part of the population has had a different experience as to what earning something means compared to me. And if I can’t both feel like, I should feel good that I have worked hard and earned things, but also recognize that. People have had a different experience than me and that maybe there is truth to the fact that the way that the path to earning it for me is very different and easier in general than other people.

If I can’t see that right then I’ll never be, I’ll never be an ally. I’ll never be able to be a part of. Uh, breaking down those barriers of stereotypes as a man. So I think that’s really important to get called out and I appreciated her for doing so.

alexi: Yeah, I like

Glen: Yeah,[01:20:00]

alexi: a lot.

Glen: she’s great that way. Well see. I think that’s good conversation and I’m glad that you didn’t leave it off of your list just ’cause you think that we’ve done it already. I think it’s not a bad thing. I mean, that’s in our world, right? It’s not everyone else who listens world. Like

alexi: Yeah.

Glen: let’s just be honest. It’s not like everybody listening has listened to every podcast episode either, right?

Um, it’s not a bad thing to keep talking about.

alexi: know what I was, when I was also thinking that, um, it’s so weird. I was like thinking like, oh, I don’t wanna bring it up. ’cause we’ve talked about that before. But I was like, ah, like it’s still a good conversation. And there was also a piece of me that it’s like, it’s also, and this is so terrible, but it’s. So rare for me to like have a conversation about this topic, like in, in general with like a man and not feel like, or not like come out of the [01:21:00] conversation feeling like frustrated or like negative about it. Like, because gen generally, like that’s how. I feel like with these conversations with men and a lot of my like female feel, so then it’s like, I was like, maybe it’s ’cause you’re my dad.

But also I think, ’cause you’ve done a lot of like learning and growing and making yourself aware, but it’s like, I was like, oh, like actually I do wanna have that conversation ’cause like I know it’ll be a good conversation with you. And then I like caught myself thinking that and I’m like, that’s so crazy.

Like, I was talking to my friend about it today and I’m like, uh, the fact that I’m like. Good to have those kind of conversations with my dad. ’cause I know he is like not a frustrating man to talk to about like things,

Glen: I’m really glad to hear that actually. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, I mean I, yeah, I mean I still wrestle with sometimes, like I just said, like there’s, it triggers a defensiveness and I think you probably [01:22:00] experience that if you ever tried to talk about it with other men or young men who think that they’re trying to be open-minded, but really they’re just trying to get their point across their own point.

Right. And they get frustrated ’cause they feel like they don’t get to be heard. As a rule now, and those are the things they fight so hard to express and they don’t realize that they’re just snowballing the problem. Right. And the willingness to just say, to set aside your own right to be heard sometimes is.

Like some people just can’t do it or don’t want to do it. And I’m not saying it’s always easy, but you can’t start unless you do that. So anyhow, that’s what I’ve learned. But yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, I appreciate that you’ll have those conversations with me, so thank you.

alexi: Ruby

Glen: Okay. Well that probably took over.

I don’t know what else you wanted, if that was all the [01:23:00] things that you wanted to talk about. You said you had a few.

alexi: they were just, you know, like,

Glen: Okay.

alexi: they were like, interesting. But I’m like, mm. They were interesting to bring up and then be like, yeah, cool. You know, and then move on. Like, just like,

Glen: Not as interesting. Okay.

alexi: we were gonna talk about

Glen: Okay.

alexi: Do you wanna hear something?

Glen: Yeah.

alexi: have to now because we’re on a podcast, but um, we were both saying like, oh, I feel like I’ve heard this song. I feel like I’ve heard this. I feel like, you know, we were both kind of alluding to like, we just started really delving into Ruby Waters, but

Glen: Yeah.

alexi: a familiarity in the songs and then like the person, and we were like, Hmm, that’s weird. I was doing Googling and so much stuff was coming up. But all of it was like just giving me the same feeling. It was like pointing to clues, but it wasn’t like a clue as to why like, um, cold War kids, you know, cold War kids.

Glen: Yeah. Very well. Yep.

alexi: [01:24:00] she was with them on some segment of one of their tours, like I found an Instagram post of theirs and it was like on underneath it,

Glen: Oh, really?

alexi: and not all of the tours, just like a leg of like some tour. Um, they

Glen: Yeah.

alexi: I’m like, Hmm, maybe it was like through something like that. Um, her older, do you know Dallas Green?

Glen: Yep.

alexi: That’s her older brother, I think.

Glen: What.

alexi: Yeah. There was some article about it, because her parents apparently were in a band that she got to be part of for a little bit or something. I could be spewing misinformation right now, but like her parents were like

Glen: Okay, just stop for a sec. So just to be clear, Dallas and Green is Dallas Green, sorry, is the main guy from Canadian Band City and Color, who had been pretty big for years. Right. And before that he was like also part of, oh shoot, how did I just forget the. Name of his big, like more hardcore [01:25:00] Canadian band doesn’t matter, but Dallas Green, well no city and color is his like Acousticy band.

But anyhow, so Oh, okay. That’s crazy.

alexi: so then I was like, because I Googled her name to like look around for like why do we both find her so familiar. And then

Glen: Okay. I am live fact checking you right now. It’s, it does not say that they’re related.

alexi: Dallas Green Sister and it says Musician Ruby Waters.

Glen: Yeah, but I hear, I’m saying he’s closely associated with Ruby Waters ’cause she’s been a consistent opening act of his,

alexi: I have like two different links here that are saying it.

Glen: my goodness.

alexi: um,

Glen: Oh yeah. Facebook is really reliable, so That’s right.

alexi: uh, no. Where is that?

Glen: Okay, well now that I added the word sister to my Google keyword. Although I’m not using Google, um, I’m using Brave Pitch pitch out there for the Brave Browser. Get away from Chrome. Um, Ruby [01:26:00] Waters. Yes. It says younger sister named Ruby Waters

alexi: Yeah.

Glen: Yeah. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay.

alexi: we heard about her somehow through that grapevine.

Glen: No, I I think it’s the song. Um, sour Patch. I think Sonic was playing it on the radio and I noticed it. Came back and looked it up and then because of that, the name sticks. Right? So, and then recently, like, you know, um, everybody knows like you play a certain playlist or a couple of bands, and then Spotify seems to always want to start suggesting something right away.

And she has a song called Wet T-shirt. This is gonna sound terrible ’cause people are gonna start reading into it. But for some reason Spotify keeps like recommending playing that song at the end of many other things that I’m playing, like it seems whenever I’m done a playlist or something

alexi: throws it

Glen: like, yeah, that song [01:27:00] gets thrown on there all the time.

Um, one of the new, the song Car by Royal Otis, one of their newer singles that keeps getting thrown on all the time. Uh, to everything. No matter what I play, it keeps coming in. So this Ruby Waters, and then this morning I throw it on and I’m like, I’m gonna just start playing it all the way to the gym.

alexi: and we

Glen: And so, right.

Well, and then I, I recognized that song, supernatural, and I recognized the song that had 27 million streams, the quantum physics. So I’ve heard,

alexi: I

Glen: I’ve heard these things somewhere in the ethos, and then I saw her name.

alexi: in our ethos, but we never like really walked in.

Glen: And her name’s on that new little folk festival down by the river in our city Edmonton

alexi: my goodness.

Glen: up in a couple of weekends.

alexi: for me. That was it. That’s why I knew

Glen: Yeah,

alexi: name.

Glen: it’s like at the top of the poster. It’s like the headline name,

alexi: cool.

Glen: because boy Golden is playing that as well, right?

alexi: I was

Glen: So [01:28:00] Yeah,

alexi: boy golden on.

Glen: yeah, yeah. So all the dots connecting.

alexi: for on Google’s all night. And then you just answered it for me.

Glen: Yeah, and I, so this is the fun. I’m gonna be a little transparent about what it’s like to be starting and doing a podcast. ’cause I’m still in my first year, second season, but still, we’re only eight months in really. Um. And so the whole world of like, people should know, how does this work, right? And then it’s like, oh, I think of somebody I would like to have on the podcast.

And then you immediately start to categorize, right? Like, is that a realistic or is it not realistic? And then. Um, so I’ve had this instance a couple times where I’m like, I like this. Where I, like I hear some songs. I hadn’t really been too familiar with the name, and then I’m like, they would be really awesome to have on the podcast.

And then I go and I look and I’m like, oh, 27 million streams. 2 million streams, 3 [01:29:00] million streams, 4 million streams. And I’m like, they’re not gonna want to be on the podcast

alexi: At the.

Glen: as if they’re too big or something. I don’t know. It’s not true. I know. It’s like.

alexi: um, thing as Boy Golden who you just had on. Like the

Glen: I, I know, I know. And, and she’s doing like, kind of like acoustic sets at some of the radio stations that would be in the same like ecosystem and sphere, um, that I’ve seen YouTube clips about. So.

alexi: at her Instagram and had like a little three show tour called the Soup Can Tour, and it was in. Squamish, um, and then two other places in bc like two other smaller towns in BC and it was like a 20 buck ticket. And like you had to bring three soup cans for like

Glen: Yeah.

alexi: bank.

And I’m like, Squamish, and these are the two places. I’m like, those aren’t even like that. Like, you know, it’s not Roger’s place. It’s like

Glen: Yeah.

alexi: Squamish. Like,[01:30:00]

Glen: Well, I think it makes,

alexi: that’s very successful and awesome, but.

Glen: well, no, there’s, there’s a way you build a career and I was gonna say it makes way more sense if she’s the sister of Dallas Green and, and, um, related in city and color and who did the whole growing up. Cutting your teeth by playing everywhere. You can play right across Canada, which you have to play a lot of non-traditional music venues and a lot of different kinds of gigs just to stay busy in this country.

So, uh, if, if she has that work ethic, that’s not surprising, but also very cool. Um, did your light just go out? You haven’t charged it for a long time. Way to go, Lexi.

alexi: actually haven’t charged it

Glen: It’s a good thing. Oh God, sometimes. Sometimes you’re still a teenager. Um, to me, that’s okay. It’s okay because we don’t, we haven’t ever done any video production of our post fame segment, so that’s totally fine.

No, it’s [01:31:00] because you refuse to use better equipment.

alexi: Okay, I’ll get

Glen: No, that’s not why. I, that’s not why, maybe, maybe soon, but not season two because I had my hands full going into season two, so maybe season three. Um, that’s okay. So we’ve spent all this time talking about Ruby Waters just ’cause of all these cool, like tying it all together, which I think is really kind of fun when that happens.

Right?

alexi: Yeah.

Glen: Yeah, and the songs are really good, and I just wanna make sure I clarify because I say this on a podcast and then it goes out to the world, and it may be 25 people right now, it could be 2,500 down the road who listen to it and think, oh, Glen’s, Spotify just picks up songs by young women called Wet T-shirt.

That’s not the fact. It’s all these other things we’re talking about, about why. Ruby Waters is making it in my playlist ’cause she’s connected to other. Alright, so I just wanna make sure that that’s really clear in case things come up. There wasn’t,

alexi: [01:32:00] the Instagram Post used to promote that song, I would really want to clear that up. ’cause it’s

Glen: oh,

alexi: nude pics in the ocean or in the water. So

Glen: well, don’t tell me that now. Oh geez. Lexi like,

alexi: I think it’s good.

Glen: geez.

alexi: that up.

Glen: Oh, I cleared it up without even knowing how bad that I wouldn’t have even brought it up if, if I had known that. Oh my. Okay. Thank you for looking out for me. I appreciate it as always. Um, with that, we probably don’t have anything else to chat about tonight, so Yeah, I don’t think so.

alexi: No problem.

Glen: Okay. Thank you.

alexi: Okay, love you.

Glen: Okay. Love you. Bye-bye.