Shaela Miller likes to garden

ep25 – Shaela Miller likes to garden

[00:00:00] Once in a while, my conversations with artists and industry people will lead me to someone who doesn’t fit the loose stereotype, the pencil drawn box I am putting around my guests. When I infer that all of my guests are people who have chased some version of fame by chasing their dreams, it is limiting, and I admit that.

It happens quite innocently when you want to establish a strong premise, but the premise becomes the grounds for interpretation. So what do I say about someone who refuses the assumptions of our premise by boldly living out their own clear premise? Shaela Miller is an alt country, new wave meets Americana artist out of southern Alberta.

She has released three full length albums and growing critical acclaim since 2017. By her own admission, she doesn’t want to be famous. Famous would mean not being able to stay in Lethbridge, her community where her band has always been from where she started her own hair salon, where she has developed [00:01:00] opportunities to develop the next generation of young music hopefuls where she can garden.

Ambition, it should be noted, is present within the pursuit of fame, but can also be fully realized apart from all the trappings and expenses of chasing fame, Shaela clearly has ambition as already noted in the career span and the entrepreneurial community efforts. It’s just that she has translated that into an at-home work ethic, not grand investments in attention and reach. If you’re listening to this episode, you might be in danger of missing it. She is not claiming to be an artist who also likes to garden. She is Shaela Miller, who is an artist and likes to garden both characteristics fully her. And her ability to wear both so comfortably is how she evades the boxes.

Even a simple premise like ours might attempt to confine her [00:02:00] to, my name is Glen Erickson. This is Almost Famous Enough. Thanks for spending your time with us. This is Shaela Miller.

 

Shaela Miller: Can’t hear you.

Glen: Because my, it’s ’cause my microphone was off.

Shaela Miller: I thought it was,

Glen: having a, my dog’s having a nightmare.

Shaela Miller: um, I was trying to get the sliding better. Can you see me?

Glen: I can see you. You just did something that gave you a little more light just now.

Shaela Miller: I brought a lamp over. Is that better?

Glen: Yeah,

Shaela Miller: being dark anyway.

Glen: I know you do. So I’m not gonna complain. And you kind of have a weird thing where like the left side of you is like a glow and then the right side is dark where you are, but it

Shaela Miller: Well, I’m like by a window, so I shut the blind, but I could, Ooh, what if,

Glen: No, no, don’t change it. ’cause your

Shaela Miller: okay.

Glen: is literally the same balance with your light streaks down [00:03:00] the same side.

Shaela Miller: Nice.

Glen: pleasing. Shaela,

Shaela Miller: Okay, good.

Glen: are you doing friend?

Shaela Miller: Good. I’m doing pretty good. Can I vape on here? Mm-hmm.

Glen: you can vape on here. Crazy day.

Shaela Miller: Yeah. Just a crazy day. Kids are crazy.

Glen: Well, I’m really happy to see you.

Shaela Miller: Yeah, you too.

Glen: a couple attempts at this, right?

Shaela Miller: I know I miss you.

Glen: I mean, let’s be honest. Like I, yeah, exactly. I miss you too. Like I love all of our chats. I’m making you do it on a podcast right now, but I always look forward to any time we’re crossing paths. I think time I saw you was at Folk Fest. I didn’t get to see any of your workshops on my schedule, but I saw your, your performance on the, on the stage that’s right behind the big main stage, which was a lot of fun. How did you feel about that, that gig, that tent, by the way, that tent, whatever you call it, that stage I feel kind of always has people who like, really, they like to like [00:04:00] settle in, you know what I mean?

And really like watch, it’s not a real big come and go stage the way that some of the other ones are. How did you feel about Folk Fest this year?

Shaela Miller: It was awesome. Uh. The, some of the pairings for the workshop. I was like, I thought they were a little interesting, but they all turned out great and I was hosting two of them, which was, from what I heard from the other artists, was like, wow, you’re hosting this one too. It was fun to host. I like hosting ‘ cause I’m pretty funny and, uh, funny.

I think I put the other artists at ease with my silly shenanigans and our performance was wicked. And I, I’ve never attended Edmonton Folk Fest, so I, you know, the lay of the land or the stages, I didn’t, wasn’t familiar with

Glen: new.

Shaela Miller: of it, but I’ve played a lot of festivals and they just like the artist liaison tents and everything, they were so good.

The food was yummy and they really treats you like a queen.

Glen: Oh, that’s

Shaela Miller: So, and our performance was deadly. I think we had a lot of people there.

Glen: loved it. Was that also, [00:05:00] I think you said from the stage, was that like a brand new fit that you had just come up with

Shaela Miller: Yeah.

Glen: one?

Shaela Miller: Yes, I, uh, I found that in Banff, but just like the outfit on its own. And then I thought, you know, this is the perfect kind of replica of my purple suit, but black, and I kind of miss the purple suit, but I don’t, and it’s so branded to big hair, small city that it just doesn’t feel right to wear it right now with the new direction of the music so

on. And having new outfits for each show, it’s like a big part of my show is like the aesthetic and everything. it still, like, there’s times when, you know, when you’re on the road for X amount of days and it’s like. Having like eight different things to wear. It feels good to have that one thing that’s like, okay, well that looks good on me.

Every time it’s a showstopper and I can whip it out when I feel like it. If I don’t have time to put a lot of [00:06:00] thought into outfits, it’s just nice to have that like piece that it’s just gonna drop the jaws and have everyone be like, wow.

Glen: Well, it was fantastic. I, I couldn’t help sit there and think, ’cause like for those who don’t know you yet listening,

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: a, it’s a full, it’s a full one piece, right? Like it’s the whole,

Shaela Miller: Yeah.

Glen: and it looked hot. And I can’t remember if that was a really hot day. I think it was pretty hot at Folk Fest this year, except that when it rained, but.

Shaela Miller: Oh yeah. It was hot.

Glen: is it, is it a killer to perform in or do you forget all

Shaela Miller: Yeah. Pretty much all my outfits are though. It’s like, I don’t know. I feel like I’m always hot ’cause I’m wearing a lot of vintage stuff. So polyester and just fabrics that don’t breathe, you know? So even if it’s a short dress, even if it’s like, yeah, even if it’s like a little mini go-go type dress or whatever.

I am often wearing like long sleeves. I just like the look of like a full [00:07:00] coverage. I don’t know why, but I just do and then show off the legs, but not the arms or whatever. So if I’m wearing a short dress, it’s usually long sleeve. I don’t usually do short dress and short sleeve. I just have all these kind of rules in my head for how I wanna look.

So it’s usually, they’re usually long sleeves, tight

Glen: I, yeah.

Shaela Miller: high heels, you know, the whole nine yards.

Glen: My creative brain just all of a sudden just was starting to spin off thinking like, were we missing an opportunity there where were kind of like you were making a Cake song there about the short skirt and long jacket, but it was a

Shaela Miller: Yeah,

Glen: But, but then it’s also, you’ve already done Big Hair, Small City, but now you’re um, short skirt long.

I don’t know long.

Shaela Miller: yeah.

Glen: it was. There was something in there. I missed it,

Shaela Miller: Well, and the line in Big Hair, Small City is, um, what does it say? I say, oh, I, you know, that’s funny. Can’t even remember your own lyrics on the spot. But something about, [00:08:00] um, showing off legs and high heels or something like that. So it’s always been a look that I’ve had, even when I was wearing the, purple suit and before that, with bad ideas.

The record before that, I was wearing this like short polyester, like green dress, so.

Glen: Yeah.

Shaela Miller: just kind of like with after the masquerade, when I released that, I’m like, I don’t wanna be tied to one outfit. But then after a few years of not having the one staple fit, it was like I realized that there was, there’s a place for that and I kind of missed having that like option, that like show stopping option that if I’m not in the mood to create a funky outfit, whatever it might be, then I’ll just whip it on.

And sometimes when we are playing festivals at night, because even if it like hot summer night, hot summer day, if we’re closing a festival at 11 or 12 or something like that, it’s not hot anymore. It’s cold and the bugs. So when I’m wearing the suit, it, I’m protected from the bugs. The only place they can land is my face or my hands.

Glen: The practicality of it all.

Shaela Miller: Yep.[00:09:00]

Glen: always loved your commitment to the outfits.

Shaela Miller: Thank you.

Glen: it’s also fun because, know, when you’re in a band, every band member are hauling around. I mean, the drummer’s got the worst amount of gear to haul around, everywhere they go. you have this giant suitcase, and I don’t know if you remember, I got indoctrinated into your suitcase during Project Wild when you needed help hauling it back to the hotel.

That was like two blocks away from, from where we were playing. And I just remembered like dragging your suitcase through the snow back to

Shaela Miller: I remember. Yeah,

Glen: for you. And I was like, shit, she’s really committed to, to the outfits. This is awesome.

Shaela Miller: I am. Yeah.

Glen: changed, which is great. Um.

Shaela Miller: felt it’s a really important part of show business and I think people who don’t look as good as they sound are really, they’re really shit in the bed on the opportunities you gotta show stop people with the way you look and the way you sound. And I think that. You know, there’s a lot of opportun missed opportunity with [00:10:00] bands.

Like I’ll see a lot of bands that I love how they’re sounding, and I’m like, what are you guys wearing though? It’s like a package. It’s showbiz.

Glen: like we had one time in history, the early days of grunge, before people actually started trying to look grunge,

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: to look like you weren’t trying was the actual thing to do.

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: I can’t think of another era or genre set where you can get away with it. So it’s surprising to me, like you say, when you see anybody not trying right

Shaela Miller: It’s true. But even if you analyze that era, it’s like, if you’re thinking about the women, let’s say Courtney Love, she looked deadly, like big red lips, insane hair, like slips, like sexy slips and fishnets. It’s like. It looked like you don’t care, but you look, you know, unique and deadly. And then, I mean, even further back, I mean, yeah, I guess we’re talking about that era, but there’s just even Kurt Cobain, whatever, they all had a thing.

They all just looked [00:11:00] emaciated and cool.

Glen: that’s what I love. okay, so I always like to go through somebody’s timeline and there’s some things that I don’t know about you, which gives me a great chance to talk about how you

Shaela Miller: Sure.

Glen: you are right now. But I know that in the middle of that, what I hope to weave in is I. You know, I get to talk to a lot of people and I’ve been able to talk to like my friends, which is a lot of fun, which is why I’m excited when I get to have you on here.

And, of all my friends who I feel have such a rooted or grounded perspective on what it means try and build a music career their own way. I’ve probably enjoyed yours as much or more than anybody’s and, and so I’m gonna try to hopefully give space for that to peek in here too. And, um, you and I met, through Project Wild, the Alberta contest, for lack of a better term.

Right. We called it a development program. The radio station called it a contest. we put the two [00:12:00] things together and you were a contestant twice. And so that’s where we And so 2018 right, was the first, I

Shaela Miller: Yeah, I think so. Yeah. That makes sense.

Glen: And. So that was my introduction to you and was the, the green polyester

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: and the really long black hair.

And the very first introduction I had to you was just when we were choosing who’s gonna be in and opening the press photo and that, that picture, which was so striking of the huge black hair against the, the green dress. So the hair immediately has always been the thing

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: of it. which I think is awesome. And, yeah, and then even then you were in the Project Wild the second time, which kind of spanned a couple of years thanks to COVID shutting it down and then starting it back up. And, you know, there’s a, a handful or more of times of people who to [00:13:00] come into that program twice a second time and be successful and probably about a. I’d call it a 25% rate of people being successful coming in the second time and, and kinda landing in the money. anyhow, so that whole experience was my introduction to you. So I never really got a chance, like maybe with some others who I had already seen a scene already of some sort playing or traveling through. and that kind of was timed with that first record. So I’m wondering if you could take me back a little bit to like, maybe not baby Shaela, but you know, a little early Shaela, because I getting to know you. I’ve figured out some of your influences and you’ve talked about your past and the things musically especially

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: shaped you as we’ll.

Talk about, you’ve been fiercely committed to staying in Lethbridge, you know, small city in Alberta. I think there’s. influence is making you who you are. And I’m wondering if you could just paint a little picture about [00:14:00] how, know, you were like, do this, I’m gonna, I’m gonna make music.

I know that Lethbridge kind of had a really strong, like thanks to the main club down there, its own like place for people to develop as a, a music musician and stuff. So I’m wondering if it started, like your teens young, were you already playing music? Was it after that? How did it get going for you?

Shaela Miller: Well, I, when we moved to Lethbridge, I’m from Victoria and then I, we moved here when I was just 11 or so, like just about to turn 11. And it was awful to move here, like to be taken away from my friends and stuff like that. But I always knew, like from even before I came to Lethbridge, that I had like. A little bit of an obsession with music stronger than my friends.

You know, like I had a couple friends in Victoria that loved music as much as me, but I just kind of knew that it was like, I just knew there [00:15:00] was a thing there that was like, my friends would go out and play and I’d be like, no, I’m good. And I’d just put on CDs or whatever my parents, and just lay on the couch and read the liner notes and just like an obsession that was beyond.

So that’s before I even played. And my dad bought me a guitar around that time, but I couldn’t really stick to it. He was teaching me really boring stuff and trying to teach me, um, like Harry Belafonte songs and stuff. And yeah. Oh yeah. He wanted me to learn like, yeah, anyway, he wanted me to play classical and all this stuff and it was like, no, I don’t wanna play Anyway, it wasn’t until I was about 14 living in Lethbridge, bought a bass, met some friends that were always busking downtown that were a few years older than me that I started to jam and realized that like, you know, I didn’t really know for sure about anything. Everything was so up in the air. But the one thing that was always like something that helped me process things or whatever, was [00:16:00] music.

So even just as a listener and I was eclectic in my taste, like all the way from my youth listening to like either, you know, Everly Brothers to like tool and nine Inch Nails and you know, everything in between. So I kind of switched from playing bass with those guys to them. Guitar, which I already had.

But, you know, starting to figure out how that goes. And then just realizing that like all I wanted to do was sing and I didn’t even think I could sing, but I just started to do it, started to write and I was writing songs. By the time I was 15, 16, I started to perform at the local venues here and all the like musicians that were, you know, had their secure placement in the community and were the guys that were playing at playing the gigs and everything.

They heard me and they were like, whoa. And they just like approached me in the most mentor type of way. ’cause they’re all like, you know, 10, 15 years older than me [00:17:00] and they just took me under their wing and they’re, and it was like that moment that I went from, I won’t get into the insane, uh, teenage years that I had.

Maybe when my kids are older, that’s when I’ll do that podcast when they’re old enough to hear it all, just in case. But I was really doing some things and going through some shit and

Glen: Yeah.

Shaela Miller: and I didn’t know what I, I was wanted to move back to Victoria. I hated it here. Hated school, hated all that.

And it wasn’t until I started to like use my sister’s ID and go into the music venues and play the open mics and met all these mentors that helped me and just helped me believe in myself the way, you know, ‘ cause I didn’t know if I was good. I knew that I was like, good enough to get on stage at an open mic, but I didn’t know

Glen: Mm-hmm.

Shaela Miller: had that thing.

But they kept, you know, they just lifted me up and taught me a bunch of stuff. And it was them that were like, you know, so a lot of them were saying like, you need to leave and you need to go to Toronto, or you need to go to Vancouver. And then it was my dad that always said, yeah, you’re gonna go to those [00:18:00] big cities.

And then start from scratch. Use the people that you have in your community that can teach you and will elevate you, become a huge part of your community, and give back to your community. And you know, what are you you’re gonna go, what are you gonna search for? What are you gonna find somewhere else?

Who’s gonna be there to lift you up? Nobody knows who you’re start from, scratch in another city, you know, all that kind of stuff. So that always like s sunk into me and I was scared to leave too. Like it’s scary to just go off on your own, you know? And then I got pregnant pretty young, and then it was like deciding to have that child and become a mother at 23, and was like, okay, well, you know, and his dad, my son’s dad was here.

And it was like, I just, even though we weren’t together, I’m like, I’m not gonna take dad, you know, I’m not gonna do that to my son or to him. So that was really what kept me in Lethbridge for real. And then it was like, okay, that’s fine. This is good. I’ll stay here, I’ll build [00:19:00] my music career here. And at that time, I did already have the band that I still have today, Paul Holden, Tyler Bird, Taylor Ackerman.

And I think Skinny Dick was playing with me like within the next couple years after that, like maybe two years after that. But I’ve been playing with those guys now for so long, and they’re the best. I’m like, they’re the best players. We get along so good. We’re super jelled. What else would I, you know, find guys and they’re dedicated to me.

So just kind of weighing out the pros and cons and then like, I don’t know, like a lot of musicians like wanna be super famous, but it’s like, I don’t want that. I want to be heard. I want people to hear my music, but I don’t want be in this. Like, what would I be, I’d be living like a poor quality of life in some bigger city.

No friends, my family, you know what I mean? All that shit.

Glen: tried that? Do you

Shaela Miller: Yeah, I do.

Glen: I mean, I know of, I’ve known quite a few who have gone to Toronto.

Shaela Miller: Yeah.

Glen: Right?

Shaela Miller: Yeah. I know people that have tried it and I, and I don’t know what [00:20:00] works for some people, but I’m, it just wasn’t something I, I just didn’t really have any desire to. And you know, my philosophy is like, as long as you leave, you’re playing in those cities. You don’t have to live in them. You know,

Glen: Yeah.

Shaela Miller: go to them.

You can’t just stay in your town. You can’t just stay there. You can’t just stay in your province. You have to go play these other places, but you don’t have to live in those other places and have that competition be just stupid. Like everyone’s fighting for the stage, paying to play, you know?

Glen: you’ve, you’ve had your foot obviously deeply in the country music genre, and particularly the Alberta country music community where, you know, what part does Nashville have to play? Almost gets forced. It almost feels, I’m gonna say it forced kind of into the conversation very early for so many people.

And I get a lot of them it’s like major, like bright lights, big city

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: But it feels so, well, let me put it [00:21:00] this way. Like, ’cause I’ve got friends, even back when I was playing and we were being told you should consider going to Toronto, same thing.

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: having a serious talk. Now I was in a band of 30 year olds, I already had kids, right? The realities of going to Toronto, they weren’t realities. And, and then obviously for us was like, this has to be a choice for all four of us. And,

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: and I always worried, you know, am I gonna hold back the other guy’s aspirations if I’m like, I can’t go. Plus I didn’t wanna get kicked outta the band. but Nashville’s even a bigger one. And I think, like what you’re saying, kind of, I never saw almost anybody go and then see their trajectory continue to rise. Does that

Shaela Miller: Exactly, and well, that’s kind of the, that’s what I think it’s like, I think your trajectory rises when your community builds around you and lifts you up and supports you, and like maybe people invest in you or whatever it might be. It doesn’t matter. It’s like it’s, for me, it was like weighing out the balance of like the [00:22:00] quality of life I was wanting to do.

It’s not about how hard you’re willing to work. How hard you’re willing to just be happy, like to work, to be happy and like I just saw myself, like, I’m not gonna be happy doing that. I still wanna like, you know, I like to garden, I like to sew. I like to do so many things. Like, it’s like, yes, I love music, but like I don’t need, if I let music become something that controls every single decision I make, then maybe I won’t love it anymore.

And like having that balance, I think is just super important. Like, you know, it’s like the gluttony fucking deadly sin or whatever. It’s like if you have something that’s yeah, I mean, you’d overdo anything. It can be music too, you know what I mean? If you work so hard and you’re writing all the time, it’s like, are your songs gonna be any good anymore?

Or do you need to live a little bit of life? Have some go through some shit

Glen: Yeah.

Shaela Miller: then put, you know, take a minute and like force yourself to sit [00:23:00] down and write about that. And it’s like, bang, beautiful song. It’s like if you just, uh, write to, you know, write to write the hits or get caught up in that kind of world, then it’s like music isn’t doing for you what it always has been.

And then it just becomes a job and less of like a passion. It becomes this thing that you’re like, you might end up resenting. And for Nashville, for me it was never really, like, even during like the heavy duty country years of my career, it was never a thought because to me it was like people go different country music, people are going to Nashville.

I’m just, I’m more of a alt country, punk rocker to check even in the depths of the country that’s like. I’m not going to Nashville. That’s not the kinda place for an artist like me. That’s so, you know, I’d have like some nice old ladies tell me sometimes that I should go to Nashville, but, and also like Canadian and American Idol, you know, but it wasn’t something that [00:24:00] made sense to me.

Oh man, I can’t, I’m, I’m sure like every single singer, you know, has had thousands of people say like, yeah, have you ever thought of auditioning for American Idol or whatever. No ma’am, I have not. But thanks for asking.

Glen: Yeah. It’s sweet that you think highly enough of my voice or my

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: um, to suggest the thing. But you have no context. Well, I mean, honestly, this is kind of the thing I’ve always loved about you, Shaela, is you’re, I mean, I’ve heard lots of conversations about why people wouldn’t,

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: include, I like gardening as one of the, the things, but I mean, what, what that is is just you always, and I think this is why I felt like we became fast friends is I think I intuitively knew, and some people might call it, it’s that old soul kind of thing, but that you’ve always kind of had a maturity, like that kind of insight is, lacking in most people [00:25:00] who are making that decision at a young age about why they would or wouldn’t like kinda go to the bigger pond to try to get into. And I think an interesting perspective for people to have. Especially, I mean, I know even for us, when I was being faced with that question was I. Besides all the people that I saw going to Toronto. And then again, like their trajectory just died. I mean, the only person that that didn’t happen to, I think was a guy named Rollie Pemberton, Cadence Weapon, the rapper, um, from Edmonton, like his career continued to, to grow after that.

I can’t think of another one to completely honest, and I might offend some people by saying that, but it’s all a little bit relative, so let me dive into this part for you then. Which I, which first of all, let me just caveat really quick. So now the other thing I like is like your willingness is just to say your opinion, which I think is so great.

And I’m gonna tell a little story, which is my favorite, one of my favorite stories of you. I’ve got some good ones, but, one of my favorite stories of you is second year [00:26:00] of Project Wild. And my favorite thing about being part of that entire. Program all the time was literally hanging out with the groups of artists.

When artists come together, you’re not performing, when nobody’s watching, and, and I don’t know if people can fully kind of comprehend or understand this, but when a group of artists kind of get together and they’re in a place that’s encouraging creativity and sort of, there’s just a heightened sense of what they’re about and what they’re doing, and now you’re in a room together and now you’re spending time together and when it’s the part where you’re not doing all of the things you’re expected to do and you’re just being people, the people that you are, so some of those late night hotel room parties in Calgary, of all the years that I did that thing that last year were some of my favorite by far, of the talent that you guys had when people would just start at 2:00 AM passing the guitar around. Was outstanding. It’s the, it’s the moments that I usually observe who I [00:27:00] think, and it’s completely subjective to me, but really has it? Do you know what I mean? Like, if we call an it factor, and it was kind of a dumb part of judging that whole thing, but that’s the place that I love to see who amongst their peers, you know what I mean?

Makes everybody like really listen or makes them, everybody wanna sing along and stuff. and that was really fun and I love that like you would always pass the guitar to Tyler and let Tyler take her around too. And he was really great and he sang some classics so well and had his own songs. But, my favorite part of those late night hotel rooms was, you could just talk to anybody and you just wouldn’t any fear in sharing your opinions.

And my favorite was like those Christian brothers um. were drilling them on their sexual experience yet at, at a young age. And whether they were going, whether or not, um, like

Shaela Miller: Like if they, I can’t even remember that. Like if, if they’d had sex or [00:28:00] not.

Glen: it was more like maybe, but I mean, I wasn’t, I was trying not to like necessarily eavesdrop on the whole thing, but, you seem to so genuinely care. But also with that kind of edgy, like you just say what you say and what you think way of, I, it felt to me like were sincerely trying to see whether they needed it advice, on how to take care of their partners sexually because they might have lived a repressed Christian background

Shaela Miller: Oh yeah, that makes sense. I would, I would say that, yeah,

Glen: uh,

Shaela Miller: grew up in religion, so I grew up Mormon and Yeah, and it’s tough like being a woman in that realm, and I think I just often am worried about what men and boys are being taught in that kind of religion, especially ones that continue. to believe that kind of stuff. And it’s like what part do you, do you [00:29:00] believe at all, or do you believe, like, do you believe that men are above women?

Do you like, it’s like, to me feels really deranged to be honest, but not to throw anybody down because people have a right to believe what they believe. I mean, I have friends that think the earth is flat and we just don’t talk about it. Right? Like, you can believe what you believe doesn’t matter if it’s in God or in whatever flat earth, but it’s, it’s none of my business.

But I guess I just do have a sincere concern for what, uh, men are doing to women or, you know, if women, it takes a long time for women to find their strength and especially if, um, they’ve grown up in a religion and maybe they’re still in the religion and they might never learn. What’s right or wrong or how to say no?

And it just like, I guess, yeah, I mean, and part of it too is [00:30:00] I, in terms of just me talking so openly like that, I think it’s like the way that I communicate with people in my sincerity, I’ve just always felt that I don’t really care. And it’s a nice way to like suss out like, who are my friends? Because if people can’t, like, if people think that the weird things that I say, not like setting aside like hopefully I didn’t offend those guys.

’cause I’m not talking about if I’m being like offensive. I just mean like kind of being, having the ability to talk about anything and not really like worry. That much of people like me or not, it’s like I just want people to feel, and I feel like if I show them how silly or absurd I can be, that they’ll instantly feel like, okay, I can be myself around this chick because there’s no way, uh, I’m gonna say anything weirder than she’s gonna say.[00:31:00]

And I think it helps people feel at ease to be like, oh, she’s never gonna judge me for this or that because she just aired out all her dirty laundry, or like her quirks or, she’s so quirky and weird that I, I think it instantly puts some people that are just like naturally, maybe a little bit more like anxious or uptight.

It just is like, oh, I can relax around her and I, and then that’s when you truly get to know somebody. And I’ll wear that hat any day, like it’s no problem. And then you can see who your friends are. And I think one of the nicest things about one of the greatest things, there’s a lot of great things about Project Wild, but being able for me to.

Let down any judgements that I had about others. I know we’ve talked about this before, but like being in that group of 12 artists were bad. Um, I didn’t know any of them were for the most part. Uh, and then realizing that we’re all the same and like, I don’t know, I think [00:32:00] there’s maybe a little bit more of a competitive nature throughout the more like popular country artists that are looking to, you know, a little bit more mainstream focused.

Then, uh, like there’s less competitiveness with like the indie artists, I feel like that we all show up to each other’s shows and there’s no, and granted it was a competition, so, but still it’s like at the end of the day, we’re all just doing the best that we can and the one who understood the assignment is the one who’s gonna place, and it didn’t mean that I was any better than.

Any people other, it just meant that I nailed my assignments and that was just the way it went, you know?

Glen: you, you did the exact same thing there that I was hoping, like, ’cause I gave you a weird sidebar with that story,

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: way. and sorry. But, it was very funny to me.

But you then you just perfectly illustrated. why it was also so charming to me, which is [00:33:00] like, you have, like, as you said, an ability to, to disarm people, you know, by essentially being like, well, you’re not gonna say any crazier shit than I just said

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: and still willing to laugh about it. Um, and I loved watching that year, by the way, how, I think, I may be wrong, but I think they were even calling you like the group mom,

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: because you took care of people.

And I think there’s such a sweet irony, that when people authentically don’t give a shit, people realize and can see very quickly that they don’t give a shit about the stuff that don’t, doesn’t matter. But they do give a shit about me.

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: the authentic version of not giving a shit. And I think that that’s why like people so quickly kind of gravitated towards you in that year.

And, and you’re right about the group dynamic. I think one thing I always loved. About that whole group was, it was a competition for an awful lot of money. And yet people were willing to not get [00:34:00] obsessed. Most people not get obsessed with that and still choose to really bond and, and form these deep relationships with the people that they were going through it with, and try to learn and grow from each other, which is a cool thing in the music community

Yeah. And the other cool thing that you said was really witting came down to like the assignment and nailing it. Which, which, and that was the part for me being on the business side of it, the other side where like I was responsible for what kind of you know, the competitions or the things, either the challenges that you guys had to do, which were supposed to represent things that would hopefully. Help build into your career or some of the things that you’d want to try to figure out how to excel in. But also as a way for, I think artists to show who had to make that big decision, whether or not they understood themselves really purely like some people don’t and a lot of people used them and they would, they’d come up with things that they just thought we [00:35:00] wanted to see.

Shaela Miller: Yeah.

Glen: who you really were. Actually, I have, this was one of my favorites that was ever done and people would, people in that contest would like on their merch stuff and and stuff, they would come up with all these crazy ideas ’cause they thought crazy ideas will win. Right. And yet you had this thing in the last year, which was maybe the best thing I had ever seen. I’m gonna make sure this goes on my social media, this little part of the whole

Shaela Miller: Oh, cool. Mm-hmm.

Glen: the most incredible art that you had done for yourself, um, which was so perfectly, you, perfectly genre, perfectly, everything. It just captured. And you had like the big ones, I think, or you had shown us thing for a really big one to be done.

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: Anyhow, I thought you did all that stuff really well, and I just, right before we went on, I remembered that I still had this sitting right over here that I’ve kept and yeah, you always really nailed that really well. [00:36:00] So I have a question for you because I, I think to a lot of people, on the surface you would seem like this really, like authentic, like, I don’t give a fuck about anybody.

I’m gonna do my own thing, go my own way. And, and people have perceptions about that. In an artist. Right. And then I’ve been able to get to know you and seeing how like true that is to just who you are.

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: I’m get, I’m making assumptions that that’s just been who you are all along. I’m wondering what parts, if any, trying to make it in the music biz not famous, just a career, have challenged, challenged that characteristic.

Like what, has there been things that have come along that, you know, you felt like, am I, am I getting soft? Am I bending

Shaela Miller: Yeah, for sure.

Glen: or not?

Shaela Miller: There’s lots of things. I mean, um, social media. I can’t stand it. I don’t, uh, I mean, I like to scroll just as much as anybody when they’re sitting on the toilet, but I don’t like [00:37:00] putting so much effort into it. It’s like a challenge and having a manager, um, she’s, she’s awesome and she is always trying to, some sort of like posting schedule or something.

But just going back to what I had said earlier, it’s like having music, work for you, not just working for it. And being able to love music in all the ways is hard because the, the, the industry and behind the scenes shit that you have to do is exhausting and like soul sucking. So those are the things that are hard.

And when I do finally post guaranteed, I’m actually like. I’m actually like, happy to because I won’t do it if I don’t feel like it. So that’s been a struggle because then your algorithm’s messed up and blah, blah, blah. So if I don’t post stories for a while, it’s ’cause I don’t want to, you know, and I have to do the, but I have to try to like shift myself out of that.

So [00:38:00] that’s something for sure. Uh, that’s all I can really think of. I guess There’s times when I am, um, you know, it can be a bit like exhausting doing, I think. Yeah, just any kind of thing like that, to be honest. It’s like, I like doing music videos. I like doing, I love writing songs, obviously. I love recording.

All those kinds of things in performing. It’s just like all the other things. And then I think a lot of artists think that, oh, I’ll get a manager to do that shit for me, or I’ll have an agency or a label. No, your team just makes you do more, which is fine. ’cause that’s the way it goes. They keep you on track and Hey, Shaela, we need this and this and this.

And I remember in the early days of having a manager, especially just like my peers around me saying like, isn’t that something that your manager should be doing? And then, because I didn’t know the roles of the manager so well, I would be like, yeah, maybe it is. And then I would talk to be like, Hey, well [00:39:00] can’t you just write my bio?

She’s like, no, I’m not a bio writer. You know what I mean? Like if you want me to find someone to write your bio, I can do that. Or you could find someone to write your bio, uh, one way or another, but it’s maybe better if you do it because you can say yes and no, I don’t like this, I don’t like that. And like, those things are up to you.

So just kind of trying to learn and understand like the roles of each team member, whether it’s the publicist or the label or the agency. And that is like integral information. And that’d be like when I, because I teach a song camp and I work with a lot of youth in music, and it’s one of the most important things as someone’s moving up in their career in, they’re starting to consider growing a team.

I think it, I can’t stress enough how important it is to really understand the roles of that, because most of your peers in music, I mean, maybe not, but at least a lot of [00:40:00] them, they may, maybe they’ve never had these things before. They just don’t understand. And so then when you get these friends of yours, your band mates or whoever they might be and be like, whatever.

Anyway, so the workload that you get, the industry behind the scenes stuff that is building your business as a musician is huge. And so when I own a salon and run it and you know I have two kids and have a garden, you know, there’s things that I have to do that it makes it really challenging. Like my daughter right now.

How much longer will you be on the laptop? She’s holding up a sign. Lucia, go do something. Please go get dressed and ready for life. Brush your teeth like a while. I dunno. Thanks.

Glen: tell her

Shaela Miller: Yeah.

Glen: need 20 more minutes with you.

Shaela Miller: 20 more minutes, sweetie.

Glen: I’m asking.

Shaela Miller: Nice.

Glen: your time.

Shaela Miller: She’s funny. Anyway, so I just [00:41:00] think that, um, I guess to answer the question in along like any, all those industry things that you have to do, they can feel that way.

But I also, every time I do them, I do them being as true to me as I can. You know, like if I’m gonna put, you know, Jess might say like, what about doing a series like this where every Monday you, uh, do, uh, ask me anything or whatever it might be. Maybe not that, something like that. And I’m just like, no, you know, no, I can’t do that.

I won’t do that. And I’ll scroll my Instagram and see pals, Hey, just hopping on here to dah, dah, dah. And it’s like, I can’t do that. I don’t, I don’t want to. And I just, I think understanding yourself really well is knowing what your like cringe factor is, or the things that you can and can’t do is really important.

On the flip. I also have other artists that say to me like, your, your, uh, Instagram feed looks [00:42:00] so good. There’s so many beautiful pictures of you. Don’t you feel weird when you post a picture of yourself as you post every time? I’m like, no. Like, some artists get cringed out by that. I’m like, no. If I post a graphic of me before I post a photo of me, no one’s gonna scroll to my second slide to see my graphic and whatever.

I look deadly. So I’ll make, I’ll make myself, you know, post a deadly photo. People like it. Maybe we’ll actually read what I’m talking about. And so there’s certain things that I do that cringe other artists out in their own way, not in like a root, maybe privately cringe amount. I don’t really care, but not caring what they, you know, someone who’s like, gets cringed out by something that someone else is doing is like, like when I see my friend, so I’m hop on here to do this.

I don’t get cringed out by them. I admire them for them doing that, if that’s what makes them feel good and they clearly feel comfortable. Like Drew [00:43:00] Gregory does it all the time and he’s my buddy and I see him do it and I makes me smile. I like seeing my friend. I can see that he’s genuinely happy that he just won this award or whatever it might be.

It doesn’t look forced. If I did it, it would look forced and it would probably make my viewers uncomfortable or something, or maybe it wouldn’t, but it’s in my own head. So I think just understanding that clear line of like it. Maybe someday I’ll get to the point where I can do that or I feel, or there’s a way that I can do it that doesn’t make me uncomfortable.

But I don’t know if I answered the question, but yeah.

Glen: you perfectly did. I think one of the hard things, because mean, I mean, you drilled into the social media part, but really that is such a predominant thing that I end up talking to a lot of artists about. Right. The joke, the, the, the most prevalent shared joke right now is like, I didn’t realize I was gonna have to become a content creator.

Shaela Miller: [00:44:00] Oh yeah.

Glen: artist

Shaela Miller: And how much work that takes. It’s not just, sorry to interrupt, but it’s not just the, like that’s going back to what I was saying about like the salon and my kids and everything like that. You can see why, what I was gonna say back then, why people who are really going for it and gunning for a, uh, life in a, as a musician don’t have another job or decide not to have kids.

’cause it literally these days takes so much time. Like Allison Brock, who’s a friend of mine, I do her hair. She’s radio host on CKA. Right? You know, or she told me a long time ago, Shaela, an hour a day on music is all you need to do, um, with your busy life. Like set aside just an hour, whether it’s like.

After the kids go to bed or whatever, and just do the things you gotta do. Like, something that I haven’t done yet for two years that I’ve been putting off is going, uh, on music match and [00:45:00] matching my lyrics. So on Spotify and shit, my lyrics are scrolling and I, I go to my Spotify page, I’m like, man, I look like such a ruck.

It’s not there yet. Like, just do it. And uh, I just like, that’s one of the things that, it’s just, there’s just the laundry list gets too long. So if you spend an hour a day, you can whittle away at it and then it just doesn’t feel overwhelming. And

Glen: Yep.

Shaela Miller: you know, but then, like I was talking earlier, when you’re having like ups and downs that are going on in your life, which we are all gonna have some peaks and valleys of your personal life with your children or whatever, like I was saying, that hour a day, you just don’t have it.

So for me, yeah, it’s like. It starts to feel, at the time when she told me that was during like my bad ideas release that was, you know, coming up on 10 years ago in the next couple years. So anyway, it’s challenging.

Glen: And well, especially this is like, and, and just to sort of split the hair, ’cause I think it’s a [00:46:00] great point, but even more so that someone could hear what you just said and say, but yeah, like what if your social media, and it’s usually gonna be a manager agent who will tell you like, what if your social media was part of that hour a day that you knock off?

And to me the difference is. If social media posting is a thing that feels like it’s literally robbing your soul, don’t make that part of your

Shaela Miller: Exactly.

Glen: that’s,

Shaela Miller: Yeah.

Glen: so many I feel, are putting himself into that place where you’ll feel emotionally and mentally exhausted by that, by 30 minutes of that to, know, some other thing that you’d have on that list. That that 30 minutes is gonna give you energy to actually get through the next few

Shaela Miller: It is true

Glen: And,

Shaela Miller: and

Glen: take

Shaela Miller: takes that long.

Glen: around us does. Yeah.

Shaela Miller: Yeah. Like, you know what it’s like it takes

Glen: Well, it takes

Shaela Miller: doing just one post,

Glen: app.

Shaela Miller: yo. It’s like, or [00:47:00] you know, or the app glitching out and you’ve just spent 35 minutes making a reel that’s now gone, or like making a reel that some, for some reason the music is gone. Or like you post it and the music isn’t there and then you have to delete it and start all over again.

It’s like,

Glen: Yeah,

Shaela Miller: yeah. It’s crazy.

Glen: yeah,

Shaela Miller: So sometimes I will do the, like the scheduled post, like if I’m in like. A mood of like, okay, I could do this and I can do like a few, so this will come out this day, this will come out that day. You know, like if I know I have like an hour, I can do that. And that’s, that is a nice tool.

But for me too, it’s like I can’t do it all. It’s like Instagram is my main platform, which stuff will share to Facebook. And I took so many social media classes in Project Wild, the both times and I know, uh, to generate the right algorithm, you should be like making individual posts for each one. I don’t have time for that.

And like TikTok, sorry, can’t bother. Like no thanks. [00:48:00] Whatever. Like at the beginning of releasing, after the masquerade, I was, I did start a TikTok and it was trying, but it’s just like, nevermind the hour it might take to make your stupid thing for Instagram. Then there’s all these other things. It’s like it’s a full-time job, man, and those content creators that are creating wicked content for us.

Props like that is actually a lot of work. You know, there’s this one chick that I follow that makes like the nastiest looking food, and she’s so funny, and I laugh every day. She posts like three times a day, and I’m so thankful for it. It lifts my spirits. I can’t believe that all that work she does, it’s all of it.

It’s crazy. We just wanna make music. Mm-hmm.

Glen: know you do. So you did drop in there the Girls Rock camp and you’ve been doing that for a long time. Um, and I love seeing your posts about that ’cause you post the shit out of that stuff when you do [00:49:00] it and it’s awesome. Um,

Shaela Miller: stuff makes me feel good to share ’cause I’m doing it for them, you know, and it’s like a little bit different, but, so what I’m doing is the Lethbridge Youth Song Camp and it’s with affiliated with Girls Rock Camp. Um, the money raised for it goes to Lethbridge Girls Rock Camp and like the founder of Lethbridge Girls Rock Camp is the other main coordinator with me for the Lethbridge Youth Song camp.

But it was really important to me when creating that, that it wasn’t just for girls that anybody could come. Before I started that I was teaching the South Country Fair Kids Rock Camp for about four years until the pandemic changed the festival and all that.

Glen: Yeah.

Shaela Miller: working with. Anyone, any gender, whatever is like, and I think teaching boys teaching, being a strong female leader for everybody, [00:50:00] not that I don’t think it’s important to have a safe space for girls to feel, but I think it’s also really important that young men learn from women and can learn to work together with women and not have it be such a boys club.

And I think the intermingling for me is really important. And maybe it’s ’cause I have a son and I have a daughter and I see all the different angles of things. I don’t know. But um, it’s pretty much, yeah. One of the best things I do is the Let for Juice on camp.

Glen: Well, you’ve been

Shaela Miller: It’s fun.

Glen: and I’m curious because I know you’re teaching a lot hands-on stuff, obviously, and you’re teaching practical, you’re teaching technical things, but I’m wondering what you would feel is maybe one of the most consistent messages that you bring, like you find yourself being like, this is the thing these kids need to know year after year.

It doesn’t change.[00:51:00]

Shaela Miller: Year after year, I open up the camp with a spiel of who I am, what I’ve done. You know, we kind of go through the mentors and we all say a little bit about ourselves and such, but I do like, uh, about like a half hour of talking about the different types of approaches to songwriting. I explained to them that this is not a co-writing camp, but you can co-write if you want.

We’re not gonna pair you up if you don’t feel like it. You know, talk about that. And I just talk about my approach to songwriting as. My philosophy on songwriting, and I understand that it’s not going to be everybody’s, but I just share with them what it is. And what it is is that I write from my heart and I don’t hold back.

And I believe that if you are writing from your heart every time it, people are gonna feel it and people are going to listen and you’re gonna impact people. And [00:52:00] maybe reading from your heart isn’t formulaic enough to land you like a wicked hit on something, but it’s gonna serve you and your people that are listening so much more when they are just truly touched, even if it’s a smaller group of people.

And then I just remind them that. I teach them how to write a little bit more metaphorically so you can write with your heart on your sleeve without everybody knowing necessarily what you’re talking about. And that’s, it’s a way to disguise. So you, you know, have like a lot of metaphors and then maybe a couple really true lines.

And I, I just really stress that the whole weekend. It’s like, right, like nobody, like, you know, they say dance like nobody’s watching. It’s like, right, like nobody’s listening. Think about like, you know, the Carly Simon, don’t you think this song is about you? I’m like, everybody wants to think the song is about them.

Let them, [00:53:00] that’s what’s gonna touch them if they think the song is about them, whatever. Like, but don’t write this song or don’t, don’t shield yourself from what the song could be because you’re afraid at the showcase that your parents are gonna be there, or your friends are gonna be there. Because nine times outta 10, we are overthinking that anyway, that people are like intellectually invol evolved enough in their mind to actually, like, people are always just gonna think it’s about them.

They just are because it’s just like the natural way. Like we, I don’t know. Or they’re gonna overthink it or they’re gonna under think it. It’s like you just have to, I don’t know. That’s kind of like what I, I say in a nutshell, and it actually turns out that every single year, like I’ve had the last two years, I’ve had to take days off.

Like the one the previous year from last year, I was so shocked. I’m gonna try not to cry at the songs that they wrote that I like, couldn’t go to work. I had [00:54:00] to cancel my clients. I think that me giving them that message really helped them like open up and the songs that they come out with are just so, so touching.

And to know that we, the mentors were able to help them process some of these really intense emotions is like the greatest gift on earth. So, you know.

Glen: so beautiful, Shaela. Like, and I mean, I’ve always been really proud of you for doing that and that that

Shaela Miller: Yeah. It is just this.

Glen: yeah.

Shaela Miller: And then I have this wicked bond with them after. And oftentimes they’ll start coming to me to get their hair done. And then we have one-on-one visits where I do their hair sometimes, like they’re still pretty beginner, um, guitar players sometimes. But instead of having like a guitar lesson with me, which I don’t teach guitar lessons, I have helped people in the past, but I, I’m not a [00:55:00] guitar teacher, but I’ll have like songwriting one-on-ones with them where they can show me what they do and I don’t charge them.

I’m like, yeah, come over, whatever. And their parents, you know, whatever. Just kids need

Glen: I love that.

Shaela Miller: to have mentors that they can talk to and open up to that aren’t their parents, even if their parents are wicked and, you know, ready to listen and learn and help them. There’s just certain things they’re just not comfortable with.

And being that kind of person for, for these little friends of mine that they all become my friends, is just like the most rewarding thing. And it feels like, Just like the greatest calling on Earth, if you will, to do.

Glen: I love, I love that that’s your advice. I mean, I love it because, I mean, you told me what your dad told you when you’re really young, that stuck with you and I think was actually the most best advice you could have ever had about staying where you are and all the actual important reasons, which were all true and [00:56:00] all came true for you.

And you think that you had that when you were young and. For you to give that kind of advice to young people now because like I’m old for lack of a better range compared to them, and I’m just getting the message in my life that the reason I haven’t made all the stuff I’ve dreamed of making is because of how much time I’ve spent editing myself for what I think other people might want to hear or what I think is good based on all these other factors and reasons other than being in the moment and being truthful and not caring what other people are thinking or who might be reading into it or thinking it’s about them or whatever those things are. If people can create without, these like imposed external filters, then they can actually make the most beautiful things. And, so I just think that that’s. I just randomly pulled that question out for you, and then that’s just the most beautiful [00:57:00] answer and the most beautiful thing. So I appreciate you sharing that.

I wanna be cognizant of your time and your daughter’s need of your laptop. So

Shaela Miller: Yeah.

Glen: do wanna talk about your music a bit, um, because it’s been a year and a half since he released the masquerade, and you were talking just a second ago about vulnerability music and using metaphors and stuff. I do remember this.

Um, I mean, I felt you and I really bonded after Project Wild After You won and we stayed in touch and we would, there were lots of gigs or something. I just felt like we got to see each other and talk a lot, I was just always really taken by how seriously you cared about your music. And it’s not like, I don’t know. A few hundred artists that seemingly care about their music a lot, but there’s just a, maybe it’s just the way you cared about it so much, and I’ve had this a few times where [00:58:00] I’m, I feel so privileged that people send me the music they’re working on. I remember you sending me that track. It was the first track you sent me off that record to listen to, uh, which has like such incredibly vulnerable lyrics. And, um, I just remember my answer was like, I actually don’t know how to respond to this as a man, to be completely honest. Um, other than to say, I think it’s incredible that you wrote it. and I’m, I’m wondering because two, there’s two things that happened on that record and then I want to talk about how they’ve gotten you to now. One is just the kind of vulnerability of your subject matter. You know, it’s one thing for people to say, I’m gonna. I am gonna make a different sounding record because I’m kind of tired of the other thing. But, you know, you diving into that even style, being tied to a close friend passing who you shared that love [00:59:00] for that genre kind of style, that’s deep, right?

That’s a very deep connection to that move. Um, as well as just changing genre for a sense. Not, you didn’t like massively jump off of

Shaela Miller: Yeah.

Glen: the train, but I’m wondering, it’s been a year and a half, I know what your thoughts were when you were gonna try to make these adjustments and shifts, which is always big in a

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: where you’re at with it now. What’s the outcome? What has, you know, what has that year and a half been like with this record out there and people experiencing you and it.

Shaela Miller: Can I go pee quick and then answer the question?

Glen: of course, of course. Shaela.

Shaela Miller: Gotta blow my nose from my tears, so I’m just gonna

Glen: okay.

Shaela Miller: off.

Glen: Okay. Okay. You are back.

Shaela Miller: good. Did you hear me pee?

Glen: No, I didn’t hear you pee.

Shaela Miller: I forgot to shut the door. Anyway, [01:00:00] um, uh, okay. So I think a lot of the same, so some of the main concerns I had were, as much as I wanted to stay true to myself, I also didn’t wanna alienate my fans and make them, feel like it was such a departure that it was, you know, I’ve listened to artists before that have really changed their sound and I’m usually on the realm of like, oh, this is cool ’cause I like so many things.

I just didn’t want, like, I just received so much support and had a nice fan base already that I just didn’t want them to feel like I was, I don’t know, turning my back on them or something. And that was hard because it’s like doing things for yourself is so important and staying true to what you wanna do, but there is like that balance of, anyway, the outcome was awesome.

I mean, I had a few people I, you know, I mean, would they tell me anyway? I don’t know. But I did [01:01:00] have a few people saying like, yeah, kinda like the last two records more, but I still really like this.

Glen: ladies?

Shaela Miller: Yeah. Stuff like that a bit. It’s more of that generation, but most of the people including like radio DJs and, uh, the publicists and stuff that reviewed and all the different whatever, it was like just an outpouring of like.

applaud for being able to stay true to, my approach to songwriting and lyrical growth and this just having a record that’s so sonically different, but so still, Shaela Miller was just like the goal and I being able to achieve that and just grow the audience to people that, you know, maybe I always kind of had a fan base anyway that were like, I don’t like country music, but I like your music.

Like, I get, if I had a dollar for every time someone said that to me and I’m friends with Core Blend and he said the same, he [01:02:00] gets that all the time. I don’t, I don’t like country music, but I like Core Blend or something. It’s like

Glen: Yeah.

Shaela Miller: a nice compliment even though it doesn’t make sense ’cause it’s like, well you do then actually.

So maybe don’t say that you don’t,

Glen: It’s

Shaela Miller: but.

Glen: not gay, but you know, I don’t mind kissing another dude

Shaela Miller: Yeah, exactly.

Glen: well then,

Shaela Miller: exactly. But so I, I already knew, like, you know, standing in the stage, especially in my hometown or home province, it’s like I’m looking out at people in leather jackets and like, you know, they’re not all, it’s, I got a wide range of fans as it is, people who like eclectic music.

So I figured that it was gonna be good, but just seeing that it was, and seeing the respect and appreciation I was getting from everybody from, being courageous I guess by just doing it. and being able to just walk that line of like having it evolve [01:03:00] but not alienating my fans, you know.

Glen: yeah, I mean, I, we talked about it a bunch at the time that you were making those songs and, and I loved it. Obviously I couldn’t wait and all the synths and stuff was just something I was really enjoying. I think at the same time, which maybe was partially why, but I don’t think I really fully understood it, Shaela, until maybe the next couple times I saw some of your shows, right?

Because you had play some of the new songs and then, you know, you’d pull something like big hair, small city that kind of has the rockabilly swing to it. And then, you know, the people who love that would all of a sudden jump up and start doing the dancing. And, and, and I think those moments for me were very palpable, right?

Where I’m like, oh, that’s, these are the real tactile, you know, experiences probably for you performing of, you know, um, like yeah. I can see where that greater like concern would come from of like you [01:04:00] experience it 10 feet away from you of whether or not they’re gonna jump up and dance, or whether that’s all they’re, that they’re there for or

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: think it’s nice to hear that you’ve had a strong experience of how wide and varied your,

Shaela Miller: For sure.

Glen: supporters and

Shaela Miller: I think.

Glen: are.

Shaela Miller: Yeah, like in observing that, I think you would’ve seen some of the shows that were very early of me performing those songs. Um, and like the record maybe was not even out yet, but was coming out so people weren’t familiar with that. So I, I would’ve witnessed things like that. Like, for example, uh, shortly after, just before releasing the album, Big Hair, Small City.

You know, people weren’t jumping up yet either, right? Because they’re still like, do I like this? This is new. I haven’t heard this before. I don’t know the words to this one. Uh, you know, they’re doing all that analyzing of like, they’re just not familiar with it yet. It’s like the first time you pop in an album, it’s like, it’s not till the [01:05:00] second or third listen that you’re like, I love this album.

You know, like, you might like it at first. You’re like, oh, this is good. Then the second time you listen to it, you’re like, oh, this is really good. And then the third time you’re just like, I can’t not ever listen to this again. I have to listen to it every day. You know? So it just takes time, I think, for your fans, even like your diehard fans, to grow into any new album.

So even if it had just been like a brand new country record, I think it would’ve, I know it would’ve had the same kind of, it always has that same hesitation. Like anytime you’re like, this is a new, I mean, think of any kind of massive stadium concert you’ve been to that you’re like. Whatever. Say it’s the Smashing Pumpkins and you’re like, everyone’s just waiting for them to play like songs off Siams Dream and Melancholy and stuff like that.

And

Glen: Yeah,

Shaela Miller: you know, yeah, okay, this new stuff is cool, but where’s my good, where’s my hits and where’s the ones I love my whole life? So that stuff happens. But we did, I was really nervous [01:06:00] about the, the live, um, aspect of it, like how I was going to weave the sets together. And at first, I, on our album release tour, I was doing, like, if we were playing a two set night, I would do like after the masquerade front to back, and then the second set would be the other stuff.

So that was a mistake. I thought it was okay, but whatever it, but now, like after a couple years of this, we’ve really learned how to just intertwine the two. Style and it kind of just works. I mean, even some of my country stuff is more blues, right? So like country, uh, crying blues and songs like that. And I’m just like ripping like blues.

It’s like, it’s not really country anyway. The only thing that makes it country is if Skinny Dyck’s playing Pedal steel, but he doesn’t always come on the road with us. So it’s, I don’t know, just being able to intertwine it all. And definitely now from the stage after the record’s been out there for [01:07:00] a year and a half, I mean, in November was when I released After The Masquerade as a single.

So that song has almost been out now for two years. And yeah, when I’m start, you know, when that first comes in, like everyone’s up, you know, it’s like it’s now the songs that people know and now they’re dancing to it all and it’s not just these two separate things, you know? So it’s cool.

Glen: at Folk Fest.

Shaela Miller: Yeah.

Glen: um, that’s a very astute sort of observation and um, and a very obvious level of growth and figuring it out. And, and because my other, ’cause I feel like you were talking about the fans, and you’re right, I think the fans are quicker to make that adjustment and adoption.

They don’t live with a whole bunch of really rigid internal categorizations. It’s, it’s more so when you probably try to send it to radio or places that want to either she country or is she not country as if it’s so binary. Right. Um, but a [01:08:00] lot of those, a lot of those systems are very binary, unfortunately ’cause uh,

Shaela Miller: Yeah.

Glen: hard. and I love that you sort of mentioned Skinny Dyck steel playing. ’cause like to me that was always the thing of, I was like, I was waiting the first few times to see you play live, to be like, I. How does, how does his steel its way into NuWave? I was, I couldn’t wait. But, uh, again, like some actually like, saw some stylistic playing on that instrument that I probably wouldn’t have gotten to see anywhere else by

Shaela Miller: Yeah,

Glen: finding a, a place in, in that music.

Right.

Shaela Miller: well it was a big part of the journey of like the recreation of, of it was the tying of the two genres together to make it kind of like this new wave country. He, it kind of was an integral role in that. [01:09:00] Yeah, I mean he just, everybody in the band was just stoked. They felt the same as me. Like, we’ve already made good country records.

Like, I was like, I’m not doing it, you guys, like, I just am not like I made that decision up, honestly, I think before I even was in Project Wild on the 2021, but they were all like, sick, right on. Sweet. Let’s do this. And Ryan was like, the Skinny Dick was the one that was like probably the most, like not, you know, he was the most like, whoa.

Like, rd, our producer helped us kind of like figure that out. Like it was, I mean, that was my first record having a producer and yeah, I mean, that was scary too. I, uh, I’m a bit of a control freak when it comes to like my music because I know what I want and what I don’t want, and. But working with him was amazing.

And my next record will be recording in January, is [01:10:00] gonna be with him too.

Glen: Okay. Well then here’s the really big question.

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: Skinny Dick Ryan is your partner, and he plays steel and you’re a control freak. I think everybody would want to know how that works out when you’re telling them what to do and what to play and, and

Shaela Miller: He is fun,

Glen: it actually happen. It’s all

Shaela Miller: I think. Um, and when I say control freak, I, I think, I mean more like in the studio with like the outcome of the albums. I’m definitely like. In our rehearsals, which I’m going to right after this, by the way. Uh, I am listening. We’re all contributing in a lot of ways, but there’ll be certain things where, um, say on Waterline, like I wrote the kind of the lead guitar part that’s just like this droning thing for it.

And for [01:11:00] some reason, I don’t know why, but Ryan just like couldn’t get it. I’m like, no, don’t lift off your finger. And it like, took a while. It is like a really simple, just like a classic like new wave thing, like b but he just kept like, almost like doing bends or like just overcomplicating it. I’m like just, I’m like, listen, real simple here.

Smoke on the water. Like, just like, you know what I mean? Like, think of the first thing he ever played on guitar. And so there’ll be things like that that I will like. It’ll be the hill I die on, but he’s, he’s like, okay, I’m trying. I just, I just don’t know. You know, it’s just funny sometimes when there’s this like a simple part when you’re playing with like extremely talented guys that like, um, you know, without sounding sexist, I think it is a little bit of a guy thing sometimes to like kind of overplay in general, in like a show off [01:12:00] rooster kind of way.

And I don’t, I think my band is good at not doing that, but I feel really strongly about there’s gonna be a moment for you to rooster and peacock. Now’s not the time. And they’re usually like, Hey, okay, I get it. Yeah. Like, leave, you know, a good song is like the spaces in between, you know, that’s another thing my dad told me a long time ago, and he said, it’s the spaces in between Shaela, it’s the notes that aren’t played and.

It’s always stuck with me. And anyway, so no, Ryan, um, he’s good with, uh, with it and I think it’s partly in my tactful delivery that I have most of the time. And when I don’t, he might just say when we get home like, Hey, can you not, can you not? In front of all the guys, I’d be like, sorry, I can’t help it.

But no, we all get along good.

Glen: let me really [01:13:00] quick. Um, really quick, I just wanna shout out your band because, um, you were in the contest two years in a row and I remember distinctly after year one, one of my notes on you was that I felt like you were outshining your band and again, with a limited knowledge.

And I didn’t know all your background well enough. That first time in 2018. The typical rhetoric that would’ve been around me would’ve been like, oh, someone needs to tell her to like get a better band. Right? And I’m sure maybe people have told you things like that who think the same, people who think you have to go to Toronto think you have to go and, you know, get a bunch of

Shaela Miller: Mm.

Glen: players in Calgary or something like that.

But my favorite thing was probably when you came back and being so absolutely floored by how good your band was being willing to say, I didn’t pay well enough attention the first time around. My opinion was wrong the first time around. Um, not only are they [01:14:00] such great players, they’re some of the nicest people I’ve met in bands that I’ve interacted with anywhere I go. And, uh, I love the fact that they’ve been your band all along, but they are an incredible group of players and they have shown that they continue despite like I’m sure spending a lot of their time playing together. I have grown together, so that’s I just wanna shut out those guys ’cause they’re a really good band that you have.

Shaela Miller: Thank you, Glen. That’s true. That’s really nice.

Glen: Um,

Shaela Miller: They are the best.

Glen: quick. They are, they’re great.

Shaela Miller: And I will just say too, just, I know you gotta ask me one more thing, but having, there probably just was some growth, you know, that was, you know, there probably was. And I think that too many times people don’t stick with their band and they don’t grow and they don’t gel.

And so much more of it. It’s like in the truck, do you get along in the hotel rooms? Can’t, are you a good team? Like it’s just like all the [01:15:00] other things. It’s like, yes, they’re really great players and we play well together, but choosing and being in a long term band is so much more than just, are they good players?

So could I have gotten a better whatever over the years. Someone that gelled better with like, I don’t know, just whatever maybe, but it probably wouldn’t have lasted like, these guys are like my family and growing together and believing in them and. Getting better all the time. And that’s the thing, it’s like,

Glen: shows. Yep,

Shaela Miller: yeah.

Glen: it shows.

Shaela Miller: Yeah.

Glen: that’s awesome. So quickly, you said you’re recording. I’m excited. I’m so excited to hear this in the new year. I guess my one question is, because the last record was a pivot, where is, where is this in a trajectory or a line of where you’re going musically as Shaela Miller?

Shaela Miller: Um, it’s going to be another similar album to [01:16:00] after the masquerade.

Glen: Okay,

Shaela Miller: uh, yeah, it’s, it’s just gonna be, I’m still writing for it. I have, uh, quite a number of songs, but I need a few more in between now and then, like the release of that. There’s also gonna be some cool remixes of after the masquerade release.

Glen: Oh,

Shaela Miller: I’ve been working on them for a while and they’re pretty, pretty fun. So, and it’ll just be something that’s released online and Yeah, hopefully my fans aren’t like, no, what has she done now? ’cause they are pretty wild. But I, I’m like, whatever. If people can dive a little bit deeper into like my brain. Um, I’ve done the remixes with Taylor Ackerman mostly, and then Graham Ard is involved and he is producing them and doing final, um, mixes on them and such.

So, but Alex Hughes is singing on one. Uh, we got a,

Glen: Awesome.

Shaela Miller: a very special When is this [01:17:00] podcast gonna come out?

Glen: Oh,

Shaela Miller: say? Okay. Well, I won’t say, but there’s another very special artist on one.

Glen: Okay, well, we’ll

Shaela Miller: Yeah.

Glen: for sure. Well, that’s awesome. Okay, well I’m really glad to hear are making a new record and I can’t wait to hear it. Um, I know how much work you put into that and how much you care about it. So I didn’t know what’s gonna be special. Um, I’ve kept you on this thing for a long time.

You’re gonna have to give apologies from me to your daughter and,

Shaela Miller: It’s fine.

Glen: thank you so much for taking the time and um, I love

Shaela Miller: Thank you, Glen.

Glen: just bump into you backstage somewhere again or catch a beer sometime and have the same old chats and I’ll look forward to that. I,

Shaela Miller: Me too. Thanks for having me, Glen. It’s so fun talking. Thanks for asking Good questions.

Glen: I appreciate it.

Shaela Miller: Mm-hmm.

Glen: hi to the guys for me at rehearsal and, um, I’ll look forward to seeing you again, and you take care of yourself.

Shaela Miller: yeah, [01:18:00] me too. Thanks, Glen.

 

Glen: Okay. Let’s start over. Welcome to

Speaker 2: the cold car.

Glen: Welcome to the cold car. Not so sure. This plan will carry through the winter.

Speaker 2: Nope.

Glen: Um, but recording from the car has been fun and a way to get away.

Escape. Yeah. Escape and the house and the busyness and the noise. Oops, now we have to layer. Yeah, now we’re gonna have to wear our parkas, parkas for post fame. We’ll have branded post fame parkas.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say that’s good. Sponsored.

Glen: Ah, that’s pretty great. I thought of it, so I’m probably gonna take all of the royalties.

Oh, okay. Awesome. Um, how are you? I’m good. Are you feeling a little uptight? You get to fly on a plane tomorrow and take a little trip in morning, so we’re getting this thing

Speaker 2: done

Glen: locked in sooner.

Speaker 2: Yep.

Glen: Well that’s kind of fun, some scholastic achievements, so congrats. Thanks. But I’ll miss you ’cause it’s a long time.

I know you will. But, okay, well let’s, [01:19:00] let’s, let’s chit chat about, mm-hmm. this episode was Shaela Miller’s Yes. Episode. another good buddy of mine. Yes. Um, so it was really a nice conversation

Speaker 2: with a friend

Glen: to have. With a friend. also because I knew, I knew exactly. I knew she would deliver. Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? And by deliver I mean like. Like Shaela isn’t, doesn’t put on an act for anybody or anything. which is literally her. her thing mm-hmm. If you wanna call it that, that I just absolutely adore about her. Yeah. And, and I was like, I just want to have that conversation. And of course she, uh, she just showed up super real.

Like she had all kinds of stuff going down in her life and she still showed up and she kinda wears it on her sleeve. And, um, and I chose like not to, like, maybe in a normal podcast you would edit out. When her daughter is holding up a sign over top of the computer asking when she’ll be done, when you’re done with the laptop or when she, when I asked her real serious questions and she said, can I, I gotta pee, go pee.

And then [01:20:00] she went. And what I did edit out was like, I just kept it rolling. Right. So then there’s all this blank space. and then she comes back and she’s like, could you hear me? ’cause I left the door open. Um, and I was just like, that’s just so perfect. That’s just awesome. Absolutely. So perfect. Uh, I love her for that.

Um, so it was a enjoyable one for me and I felt like she, like, I think I told, maybe I told you this, did I tell you this before I had recorded or after that it made me feel going all the way back to like my very first conversation with Dan Mangan.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

Glen: Was. Me, you know, going through his sort of timeline and arc and sort of trying to hit the highlights, but he had so many, I wa, I don’t wanna use this word too harshly, soft opinions, right?

He had so much to say about just the business and why things, the way they were compared to how they are now and what he really thinks about all that stuff. He was so free to share that, and she kind of had that same. Spirit to me. Like, here’s

Speaker 2: my take.

Glen: Yeah. She was willing to sort of give her take on Yeah.

A bunch of stuff, which is really what I, I wanna [01:21:00] pull as much of that into every episode as possible. ’cause I think that’s what we want to hear from. People are doing it genuine. Yeah. And she’s been, as you can see, she’s been doing it for a long time. It’s, I, here’s the other thing I kind of noticed in retrospect, which I really liked.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

Glen: Is like, if I wanted to go back to the timeline. Well, you know, there was a clear point to her where she like started realizing she could like sing. And even start making songs and the people around at those open mic things and whatnot, started noticing and yeah, coming to her like support and, and every artist sort of, I think, has that.

But I think what I really enjoyed is like, it was really a blurred line. Like there wasn’t some version where she all of a sudden said, and then I decided to take it seriously. Yeah. And then I started forming a band, and then we started writing songs for a record. Yeah. And then we released a record. Like it wasn’t, yeah.

It was just like, there was

Speaker 2: like noticing like points in the timeline where it was like, yeah, this was it for me. It was like,

Glen: yeah. One long good story. Yeah, and I’ve, I loved that [01:22:00] angle. Yeah. From her. Yeah. So that was one of my favorite parts of the conversation and just getting that sort of perspective about her life and how she kind of came to it.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Glen: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Can you guess what my favorite part was?

Glen: I hope it’s not the part where she got me choked up.

Speaker 2: No. Okay. That’d be rude.

Glen: Huh?

Speaker 2: That that’d be rude. I did like that. ’cause I like seeing that you can be genuine, like even on a podcast, but,

Glen: well, I, I didn’t prep, I wasn’t prepared for it. You weren’t ready for that?

Like, not even like right up genuine.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay.

Glen: Like right up to the moment. Right. Which was, which was like, I was just, I was like, oh my goodness. Like that was, I just wanted to tell her like, that’s just so beautiful. Mm-hmm. And then like she got choked up. And then I was like, and then I wanted to say the words like, of how I thought, that’s really beautiful and I appreciate the me.

And then I just like, you just feel that thing where you’re like, yeah, I need to stop talking for a sec. You’re like, mm, I’m gonna cry now. I, I’m very limped. I need to pinch my nose. I don’t know what I

Speaker 2: got. Well, I’m glad you weren’t expecting that to, that wasn’t the part. Be kind of weird [01:23:00] if you were

Glen: okay.

What was

Speaker 2: I liked? Okay. I mean, you kind of touched on it, but it’s what we had you, I think one of the first things post. Recording that you’d come to me and like told me about, but is that like when she was talking about like what she posted on Instagram, how she was like, basically she, she was talking a lot about posting and like the like Yeah.

I

Glen: asked her what parts she doesn’t Yes. Like, or, or hard still. Yes.

Speaker 2: Were hard and like, I, I like though that instead of Jess being like negative about it, she explained that like when you see her post, like that’s her wanting to post.

Glen: Yeah,

Speaker 2: that because like, and I just, I think that’s very genuine also because like even with Dan, and this is like in no kind of negative light, but he’s like, you know, you gotta promote yourself.

You gotta like put in all this work. And he was kinda saying like, there’s so many hats that he wears, but like, you know, a lot of it’s social media nowadays and how much like you have to post. And I think I’ve heard it from a lot of like artists that you’ve had on of like [01:24:00] how much you have to be active on social media these days.

But I kind of like that she’s kind of just like, hmm. Like, can IF that narrative? Yeah. Like I’m just gonna do what I want and that’s just gonna be it for me, and I don’t care. And

Glen: if I’m gonna be really honest, right, you have to. And this is gonna sound like a, a diss, and it’s like 0% a diss because this is literally what makes her exactly her is that she said, I can’t remember if it was a little earlier or a little after, she made a very clear statement of like, I’m not interested in being famous.

Yeah. I’m interested in being able to keep doing this. I love it when people can hear my songs. Yeah. And the more people can hear my songs, the happier I am. And if I can connect with them, I’m super happy.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Glen: So you have to literally connect. I feel the dots between

Speaker 2: that and the posting. I

Glen: can say middle finger to the expectation of how much content you have to create.

Yeah. To be in the awareness cycle.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Glen: And be happy then. With the career you have? Yes. Versus Dan, who’s [01:25:00] achieved a lot of his success. Right? He’s won Junos. He’s like sold, like he’s,

Speaker 2: he’s very active,

Glen: but he’s also recognizing Gooding if I want to sustain mm-hmm. That level of a career. Right. That’s what I mean.

Like he’s chief, that’s his thing. Yeah. He has to do the thing.

Speaker 2: He, he knows, accepted it what he wants and he knows how to get it. But I like the, she’s exactly. Also aware enough to be like, I don’t want that, and also I don’t wanna post. And those things go hand in hand.

Glen: Yeah. And then the other part of that saddled onto that was that she was like, and most people I got criticized, she said, because I just post mostly pictures of my fits and, and myself.

But I looked wicked. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Which I love. Um, I love we also talked about that. Yeah.

Glen: Yeah. Which I love when she’s just like, you know, she talk about her band and is like, they sound wicked. And then she’s like, my outfit was wicked. anyhow, that’s, that’s, I love to see a

Speaker 2: woman winning though. Like, love to see a girl who’s that confident.

Glen: Yeah. And that’s. I think the part that, [01:26:00] you know, I’m always worried what I say ’cause I put it out in the podcast. Yes. I would say the word object. You. I would say the word. That’s what attracted me to her. Right? Yeah. Because again, I’ve met a lot of. Aspiring artists, career artists, musicians, people in this whole business, and I like an awful lot of them, right?

Mm-hmm. But I’m really attracted to certain qualities of people, and I think that unwavering confidence, yeah. In herself while being. Yeah. Incredibly vulnerable and truthful. Yes. Like those two are like locked hands, right? Yeah. So that in her story of like, I’m gonna like be the one to say the most inappropriate thing so that everybody else can like, feel

Speaker 2: comfortable, have their ground down.

Yeah. Like, yeah.

Glen: You know, take a breath and be like, well, I’m not gonna say anything crazier than that girl. So. Those things go hand in hand with her. Yeah. And it goes hand in hand with her confidence. And I think of all the qualities that I often see in people, that’s probably one of the things I’m most attracted to, right.

Is people who have that [01:27:00] real, that obvious natural confidence. Mm-hmm. It’s not forced, it’s not manufactured. So yeah, I think that really came through in the conversation and I hope if people didn’t know who Shaela was before that they would go and check her out. Yes. And especially even the evolving sound, I remember.

When I brought her album to work, ’cause we were doing vinyl Thursdays.

Speaker 2: Oh, cute. And

Glen: just to start playing it and then have like two people, which is a pretty, you know,

Speaker 2: outta the group size,

Glen: outta of the group size that in a hybrid situation that might, that might be 20%, that might be 30% of the people there.

we’re asking me like, who is this? Right. Yeah. And it’s like, you know, it’s a good record. Yeah. After The Masquerade. Very, very good record. I’m really looking forward to her next one. But. Yeah,

Speaker 2: so awesome.

Glen: So awesome.

Speaker 2: So how excited are you for. The next recording

Glen: of hers?

Speaker 2: No, of the podcast.

Glen: Oh, the next recording of the podcast.

Well, I’m not gonna say

Speaker 2: that’s why I did that.

Glen: Okay. Very good.

Speaker 2: Thanks. I’m media trained. If you didn’t know this, what

Glen: that I love that. [01:28:00] I’m so deeply appreciated that my daughter is media trained. She knows how to work within websites. Everybody. Yes, she can build a really good PowerPoint. Guys, I used to not code, design a logo.

She went to code camp with Apple. Yeah. Like this is my girl. Okay. What did you ask me? Oh, yeah. The, um, the next episode. How

Speaker 2: excited are you on a scale of, I’ll do my, my scale one to 23 can excited,

Glen: can excited include just nerves? Uh,

Speaker 2: yeah. Okay. On a scale of one to 23. 23 being like, whatever, like you’re like 23 or 23, like bursting with emotion.

I’ll get

Glen: my arms kicked if I don’t say 23. Okay. First, okay. Describe that again because that might like bursting with emotions,

Speaker 2: like whether it be like excitement or you’re like nervous. Okay.

Glen: I’m probably 2021.

Speaker 2: Okay. And why aren’t you 23?

Glen: Um, I don’t know why I am not 23. Like I think I.

Speaker 2: Oh, you can’t even say it because like kinda, I can’t say

Glen: it, but we’ve been talking about it for a while.

Speaker 2: Yes. You

Glen: and I.

Speaker 2: Yes.

Glen: And it’s an idea [01:29:00] that then kind of move forward and then do you

Speaker 2: wish it was in person? I

Glen: need to get the Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah. That I need for it. And do I wish it was in person? A hundred percent. Yeah. I bet you if it was in person it would be

Speaker 2: 10 times, like over a 23.

Glen: Yeah, that’s guaranteed probably it.

You probably actually just. Peel back what it is. I, ‘

Speaker 2: cause that’s what I was thinking. I think just ‘

Glen: cause I’m like, because

Speaker 2: like there are a lot of, I got

Glen: some, I got some stuff to figure out.

Speaker 2: Yes. Well that,

Glen: that part is, but I was gonna say like, because it’s not in person, most

Speaker 2: guests like the chemistry between you and the guest won’t waiver that significantly between Zoom and in person.

But this guest, I was gonna say like, that’s a good point. The energy in person I think would just be,

Glen: yeah, that’s a good point.

Speaker 2: Significantly. Like, not different,

Glen: but just, no, you nailed it. Like I think. Like it would be undeniably a 23. Yeah. If, if, um, there’s an person thing. This

Speaker 2: is the episode I’m most excited for out of all seasons, just so you know.

Oh,

Glen: wow. That’s, um,

Speaker 2: unless you guys suck. In other words, if you’re

Glen: [01:30:00] listening, in other words, if you’re listening, it’s a can’t miss episode, I guess. Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 2: Maybe. Okay. If it sucks, then um, I’ll post something about it. Well, I

Glen: had no idea we were dropping an e egg, but I appreciate you coming prepared to do so.

I love

Speaker 2: dropping an Easter egg. Okay. There’s one thing about me.

Glen: Okay. Well that’s great. Yep. Um, thank you. You’re so welcome. You can go, you can go back and get your stuff together and prepare. You’ve finish packing, so leave on an airplane. Yeah. And a bus, et cetera, et cetera. And a bus. Yeah. All the things.

Okay. Thank you.

Speaker 2: Yep. See you. I’ll see you for next episode. I’m excited.

Glen: Okay. Awesome. Love you. Love you.

Speaker 2: Bye. Bye.