Boy Golden is not the boy

ep17 – Boy Golden is not the boy

Glen: [00:00:00] It seems to me now that breaking a podcast into seasons, air, quote, seasons, is about taking forced breaks, as in you need a break, you are running outta steam. You have no one booked. That was meant to be a little funny, so I won’t qualify how true it is for me, but I should also be transparent about how important the process has been for me to be patient, to trust the process.

So finding myself at the start of a second season is satisfying. I don’t mind saying, and what other way to start than with an episode I was hoping to have during the first season, but timing would bring this guest to us. Now, serendipity, You know what else is serendipitous? A series of events occurring or discovered by chance in a happy or beneficial way. That’s the Google definition at least. But how about this example? A guy, let’s say me, hears the song on the radio and feels that’s too indie for regular alt [00:01:00] rock radio.

I like it. But then it occurs to him, me that there are a lot of songs I get interested in because they sound like they don’t quite belong. Not in a bad way, but in a very cool way. Alongside the battalion of Foo Fighters and mother, mother songs in regular rotation. And then it really occurs to him, me that the song doesn’t belong because it has hints of something that I don’t think on its own alt rock radio would ever play regular rock radio for that matter.

And so he, I goes on a. Quest to hear more than just this one song and confirms that the discography supports something else. Some other substance in the song catalog and the alt rock radio single is actually the anomaly, but. Then he, I can’t seem to stop there because there is still something not quite aligned.

And this [00:02:00] guy me is struck by the collection of songs lined up against themselves, not other radio rotation regulars and how these songs require a new investigation into what’s being heard. So a kind of detective work of the subconscious is this guy me. Ponders and listens and ponders about how the song Maker has so cleverly created a sound that avoids the stigma of being an era copycat, a throwback, avoiding specificity, and instead wearing the woven piece like a vintage Cody actually inherited from his grandpa not purchased from a Goodwill.

So. Serendipity happens when the events of this discovery lead our guy, me, to realize I wasn’t searching for a specific influence to satisfy him, me, not a Bob Dylan or a Lou Reed, but someone who could never [00:03:00] possibly have been an influence yet carries all the correct specifics, and then to go look up the albums, the songs, and experience exactly.

What I’ve experienced from this current artist and album and find total serendipity, even though I’ve probably lost you. So let me pull this back together. This is extreme beating around the bush, and I’m sorry it’s either the very wrong or very right way to start a new season, but I listened to Boy Golden repeatedly until I serendipitously connected him to Larry Norman.

Larry Norman was one of the true rebels of Christian rock, the OG of Christian Rock, the only one maybe until striper in the nineties, who stood shoulder to shoulder with his peers. A perfect blend of those pi with seventies blues influence, guitar and piano driven anthems and ballads. Rolling [00:04:00] lyrical satires on politics and personalities.

Boy Golden broke out on Alt Rock Radio with the groove heavy Katy and lunch meat, but had already been turning out rolling blues anchored satire like the Church of Better Days.

Boy. Golden was an incarnation that only this guy me could have ever understood arrived at pieced together. Serendipity is, after all, a personal experience, a very personal experience when a series of occurrences, in this case over 35 years. A line in a very satisfying way. Boy Golden is the artistic persona of Liam Duncan, a Juno nominated manitoban artist, producer, and musician boy, golden really elevated this satisfying serendipity during this conversation, catching me in post vacation zen state, and inspiring me with [00:05:00] routines and practices that I think we could all benefit from feeling more creative.

And more present. My name is Glen Erickson. This is Almost Famous Enough. Thank you for spending your time with us. This is Boy Golden .

 

Glen Erickson: thank you so much, Liam, for taking a little bit of time to, to join me here. so you’re, uh, you’re at home, I presume,

Boy Golden: Yes, sir.

Glen Erickson: Okay. you, you had a release, you had an EP release with six shooter in March Summer’s coming up. So I guess my first question when I to somebody and where they’re at is, um, where are you in the cycle of, of the job, of the business right now?

Um, you know, [00:06:00] versus recording versus promoting, all that stuff.

Boy Golden: I just finished making a new record. So I’m kind of off cycle for touring at the moment, but I guess where we are in the cycle right now is just like making all the plans, making all the videos, making all the photos, ’cause the record’s done and everything else is done. So we’re just kind of in that, in that stage.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Well, I

Boy Golden: I mean.

Glen Erickson: let me ask you this, ’cause this keeps coming up with a lot of artists I’m talking to as sort of the side joke of the life now of, um, you know, your, your part-time musician, part-time content creator, uh, or, or at least the pressure to be, so to speak. Um, I’m wondering where that sits with you and, and then how you do things or how much, you know, you get involved in that, or you feel the pressure about it or have people who are doing it.

Where, where does that sort of sit or resonate with you?

Boy Golden: yeah, it’s kind of a big [00:07:00] question. I mean, I don’t think of myself as part-time, anything. I’ve full-time do this all the time, so I, but I just think it’s like, to some extent it’s gonna be part of the job. To what extent it’s part of your job Is is up to you. For me, I think I have a fairly good balance with it right now.

Certainly I don’t have a very natural talent at it. Um, I would love it if I was just naturally good at, at making things that people like to watch on the internet, but it’s not my, I kind of think on some level it helps if you’re a big consumer of that content to, to make it, you know, to know what people like.

And I kind of make every effort in my life to consume as little. Have that kind of content as I can, and I feel like it makes me feel really disconnected from it. So for the most part, I try to just make things that I like and then put those out. And I, and I’m open to trying new things too. I mean, I think one thing about the internet is it’s a bit of a sandbox.

Always has [00:08:00] been, continues to be, and you can try stuff on and if it doesn’t really feel right, then you don’t have to do it again. would I love to be the kind of artist that doesn’t really ever have to make anything? Yeah, of course. But I also am the kind of artist that, uh, I need to grow more in order to have like a really sustainable livelihood.

so I’m ready to do, I’m ready to do the work if I need to.

Glen Erickson: Well,

Boy Golden: Well.

Glen Erickson: this was actually a question down the road on my sheet, but, but that’s okay. I don’t mind jumping in right where we are. because I, one thing I’ve noticed about you and when I, I’ve sort of looked back at some of the stuff either that you’ve put out obviously, but also just things that you’ve said in other conversations, uh,

Boy Golden: There’s a lot to,

Glen Erickson: take on creativity. Which I’m really, really interested in. And so I, you know, I led with the joke about being a content creator in the current age of the musician and, jostling for how much of your time either of those can take depending on who you are. But, you

Boy Golden: you know, something you [00:09:00] said that is.

Glen Erickson: jostled that for me, which is, you know, if you’re in the, in the role of creator and have a creative career, you know, learning your, your willingness to learn all that kind of stuff, where does, where does that sort of sit, where you in in your day-to-day?

Sort of the, there’s a lot more, well, let me put it this way. Even like you were saying, you know, I’d be happy maybe for other people to do it. Um. But your, you have a sense of humor that’s really obvious in a lot of your stuff that comes out in, you know, the music, but I’ve seen you play live at a, a folk fest here in Edmonton and, just in how you are on stage and with the people that are around you in visuals.

So you obviously have a lot of input on a lot of that kind of stuff. So, how do you feel like, do you feel like the whole job then is tapping into your creativity or do you feel like, that’s a sort of an open door?

Boy Golden: that’s a good question. I don’t really feel like the whole job taps [00:10:00] into your creativity. I think my job as an artist is really to write what, write something that feels true to me and. I would be doing that, whether or not I was doing this for a job. I’ve, I was writing songs that felt true to me when I was working at a bar, when I was shoveling snow, when, you know, I’ve been doing that for a long time and I don’t think I would ever stop doing that, even if I decided that doing this as a career wasn’t for me.

So I kind of find it personally helpful to separate the two a bit and go, well, listen, I need to make stuff so that people engage with the things that I make, that I really do care about. And so, I try to, I’m actually, I just try to develop that side of my brain as well. ’cause I feel like, as I was saying before, because I’m not a big consumer of that sort of content, I feel like I lack taste with it a bit to some extent.[00:11:00]

And I sometimes don’t know if what I’m making is like. Bad. Whereas when I’m writing, I have a pretty good sense. It’s like an intuitive sense. I don’t need to question it of whether what I’m writing feels right, but when I’m making stuff for the internet, I sort of lack that sense of, Hey, does this feel right or does, does this not feel right?

So I’ve been working on developing that sense over the last five years, I would say. And I’ve learned a lot. I mean, I’ve done a lot of things on the internet that I look back on and go, whew, that was pretty cringey. But, uh, I don’t mind, I don’t mind, uh, embarrassing myself every once in a while and feeling embarrassed.

I think that’s fine. I think if you’re scared to be embarrassed, you’re, you’ve probably already lost. You know? You gotta put yourself out there.

Glen Erickson: that’s a really good perspective actually, I think because I hear a lot of the discomfort from people about being pushed to do so much more content creation themselves as a way of promoting and building awareness in the way that it looks today. but I think like what you said there probably really [00:12:00] identifies where that discomfort comes from, is that we as musicians, we develop a really strong ship meter. we’ve been doing it since we were young. if you’re in an area where you don’t have a developed ship meter, you’re just gonna get uncomfortable. Right. Like, it’s just not a, a comfortable space to be in. that makes a lot of sense. Uh, let me, let me jump back ’cause I’m really just sort of interested in of how you got to where Boy Golden is right now.

And, so, born and raised Brandon is what I see, uh, Manitoba, like the, uh, the quote unquote suburb of, of Winnipeg. I think it’s kind of funny. It’s like, what, like 45 minutes drive

Boy Golden: Oh, it’s two. It’s two hours.

Glen Erickson: Is it, why did I always think it was 45 minutes? Okay. Nevermind.

Boy Golden: I don’t know, maybe ’cause you zone out when you’re driving through it,

Glen Erickson: That could be,

Boy Golden: it definitely doesn’t feel like a suburb. I feel like if growing up there, going into Winnipeg felt like, oh, going into the big city, you know,

Glen Erickson: Yeah, I grew up in a small town called Rosetown, Saskatchewan. That was like about 50 [00:13:00] minutes outside of Saskatoon.

Boy Golden: I know exactly where Rosetown is. Actually,

Glen Erickson: you the

Boy Golden: I,

Glen Erickson: wheat

Boy Golden: you wanna know something weird? I I, I had a lot of, uh, I, when I was younger, I flirted with a lot of different hobbies and for a while I doubt you could still find it. But for a while, while I was touring, I would write blogs about the history of whatever random town I was driving through that I thought was interesting.

And I remember writing one about Rosetown, so that’s why I know where Rosetown is.

Glen Erickson: that’s awesome.

Boy Golden: I don’t remember much about what I learned, but yeah.

Glen Erickson: yeah, there, I mean, I don’t know what you would learn either actually now that I think about it, but it was like, as a small kid, that felt like a giant drive. And it was 50 minutes, I think. But yeah, Saskatoon felt like the really, the real big city. you’re

Boy Golden: growing up there,

Glen Erickson: and you make the move to Winnipeg at some point ’cause you get kind of the taste for music.

So I guess my first

Boy Golden: but

Glen Erickson: is uh, were there things around you or family or people or the influences that started [00:14:00] that taste for music and that, that jump to kind of really just be more around the music scene and stuff? Um, I mean, I’ve seen you, you see different people right when they’re growing up.

The ones that kind of like just go all in the music stuff right away. And then the ones that right, while they still are going to school and doing all the things to appease their parents and stuff.

Boy Golden: I’m wondering what

Glen Erickson: of that was for you in your development?

Boy Golden: Yeah, so, uh, my main influence in that regard was the, the band I was in in high school. It’s called the the Middle Coast with my friends Roman. Roman Clark and Dylan McDonald’s, who both are still professional artists. And, uh, we started touring right outta high school. We played over 600 shows together. so I would say we, but we, all, three of us landed more on the, like doing it immediately kind of thing.

I did, I graduated high school a year early, and then yeah, my parents were like, well, you can’t just hang around. You gotta go to school. So I went to [00:15:00] school, for a year from, for music and then, but I, I didn’t really stick, I kind of didn’t get as much out of it as I, I wish I did, uh, because I really just wanted to play with my fun rock band.

So that’s what, that’s what we did. And we went on tour, and just started, started doing the DIY kind music scene thing.

Glen Erickson: Was that still in Brandon or you

Boy Golden: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: Winnipeg

Boy Golden: Yeah. No, we, I mean, honestly, we were, we booked ourselves so busy. We didn’t need to be in, we didn’t feel like we were, we didn’t feel like we needed to be in Winnipeg yet. And, but then, then all of a sudden we did, ’cause we were playing gigs in Winnipeg several times a month.

And so it just made, and we were starting to make friends there, and it was just obvious there was no way we could stay in Brandon. And then at some point that happens in Winnipeg too. I, Dylan and I both moved to Toronto to try and grow what we were doing. And then the pandemic happened, uh, and there was no work.

And then you were just paying a lot of money for [00:16:00] a, an apartment in Toronto. You couldn’t do anything. So we all ended up moving back to Winnipeg. And that was while I was still in Toronto. During the pandemic was when I recorded the first boy Golden album in my apartment there. And then. I finished it in my friend’s bedrooms and stuff here in Winnipeg and then it sort of just kind of took me on a ride for the last five years.

So I haven’t, uh, moved back to Toronto and I don’t really plan to, but it’s still, no matter where you are, it’s with music, it’s helpful to get out there. So, spent a couple months in Nashville this winter. Probably gonna go back again, uh, next winter. you know, it’s a, music is so much fun for that because it’s just so easy to meet people.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Boy Golden: Mm-hmm.

Glen Erickson: I mean, Winnipeg has a great reputation of incredible fertile ground for musicians and, uh. Of like all kinds of genres, but just musicians in general. So I suppose that would be a pretty comfortable jump back. Right. [00:17:00] you, I mean even, even you being like, we booked 600 shows with this band when we were like teenagers.

Like that’s like, that’s not normal. a lot. That’s a pretty cool experience to have at such a young age. Were you already getting exposed to the business? ’cause you were able to book that much like you’re getting, you’re talking to either managements or agents or, or people like that.

Boy Golden: Yeah, we tried so hard. We tried way too hard. We, we, like we did end up having a manager. We had an agent, uh, we toured in Japan. We, there was like this guy in Nashville that was, that took us to a party and told everyone there he was gonna win a Grammy with this band. And you know, like the whole, all that weird shit.

So we got exposed to the business.

Glen Erickson: does to you, man. When someone does like that, right?

Boy Golden: It is so dumb.

Glen Erickson: that. Yeah.

Boy Golden: Yeah, I, you know, I’m [00:18:00] so grateful for all those experiences because first off, I have a pretty good head on my shoulders when it comes to the business side of things, which a lot of artists don’t because either they just don’t come by it as easily, or, um, no one ever gave him the chance to learn about it.

Uh, but yeah, we all, we all did it ourselves, so we all got to learn about it ourselves. I got, I wrote, I used to write grants for other people. I, I kind of honestly thought I would end up on the business side of music because I came to writing songs quite late in my life. I was very blocked around that for a long time until I was 21.

And so when I was in my, like late teens and very early twenties, I was mostly. Working on the business side of things and I was record, recording, producing, and mixing, at a very amateur level. Um, but that grew into, you know, I still just do that today basically, but I also write songs and have my own career.

So it, it’s, I have a it. [00:19:00] Yeah, it’s a strange life.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, it is. But I mean, there’s so many different skill sets, like you said, like, you know, like when we, when we buy that, like when we’re young and we buy that big label, big. Name album. You read the credits, you like starting to get to know who all the people are. The credits are a mile long, Because there’s a different person for every single one of those roles. But like you said, when you’re young, I mean, that’s an amazing skill and gift. I think the opportunity to learn how all those hats work to wear them and um, even learn the skillset behind them and, and see what they take you down.

Um, so it’s in Toronto that you start developing the Boy Golden, or were you already working on the boy golden sort of version of your, of yourself by that before that point?

Boy Golden: I was already working on it, but I didn’t know what it was. I wrote my first record and released it myself in 2018 or 2019 or something. I [00:20:00] can’t actually quite remember now. Oh, I have it right here. ’cause I just found, I just found, I was cleaning out my garage and I found out, found 200 of these things and I was like, I actually don’t know what to do with them.

So I ended up just donating them. But, it was released in 2019. Apparently, according to it, I kept, I kept five for a memento. Whatcha you supposed to do with all this old crap?

Glen Erickson: know

Boy Golden: But

Glen Erickson: the same thing. I had a band too, and we, and like

Boy Golden: yeah, you end up with all this stuff,

Glen Erickson: know, the boxes, the CDs ship in those

Boy Golden: believe me.

Glen Erickson: ones.

Boy Golden: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. And I was like, what the hell, man? Like,

Boy Golden: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: done our reunion reunion shows. I don’t know what to do with these anymore.

Boy Golden: Exactly. It’s kind of sad. But anyways, yeah, so I was already working on it. And then this album, that first album of mine was really important for me. But what I realized looking back is that I wasn’t, um, I wasn’t really writing from the truest place that I could at that point. It, when I listen to those now, which I don’t do often, but I have, you know, I, I just [00:21:00] hear the influence of other people more.

And then at some point after that, after that, that came out and like nothing really happened. And it was a lot of work and it was just sort of like, meh. I was like, man, I’m taking this shit way too seriously. And then I just started going into the, I was like, the only part about this that matters to me is making.

Something that I love. And so I just started to go into the studio. I shared a studio with this other fellow and I went in every second day, or you know, three or four times a week, usually at nine in the morning. And I would just try and make something new every time. And that’s what Boy Golden came out of was just that creative, like a creative practice really is what I consider it.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. That’s a real discipline. A lot of people don’t, I think, have that approach in their story, uh, which is pretty cool. Like, so. Okay. I read also, by the way, that your name. The boy golden name, which I thought was a great little story [00:22:00] that that’s actually golden, was your mother’s maiden name. when you’re think, were you trying to actively think of a name or was this one of those things where you’re just like in the shower and it just presents itself to you?

Like that’s the name.

Boy Golden: Yeah, it was that. I don’t remember how I came up with it. It was like, I remember writing, I wrote the song Church of Better Days, and I was like, Hmm, I think actually that’s what the whole world is. And then I was like, and I think my name is Boy Golden. I, I don’t know, I don’t remember. I mean, I was stoned all the time back in those days.

So sometimes my memories are a bit fuzzy. Uh, but yeah, I don’t remember where it came from. I just remember that if it felt right. And then when I told other people, they were like, yeah, that’s cool. You know, I remember distinctly my friend Cody, who was recording some percussion on the Church of Better Day’s album was like, you know, normally I kind of hate everything like that, but I actually like that one.

And I was like, well, I think that’s about as good of a vote of confidence as [00:23:00] I’m gonna get. So.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, so, so the writing for that album you’re describing as, like you making a shift in what you felt like you’re, you’re like, I gotta stop taking this so seriously. So that, sort of shift for you personally is really what was part of the fuel behind what you started writing that became that entire album.

Boy Golden: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. so, um, let me, I, okay, well actually, I’m gonna just zero on, on this first and then I have some other stuff. But I like, what I’m really so curious about with people is you’ve had this experience of a song on that first kinda record of Under Boy Golden, like blowing up, right? So you’ve had the experience of K and lunch meet kind of. Kind of blowing up in the on the radio, it starts charting on the radio. You start getting different avenues and I don’t know, I guess I’m curious, like sometimes those things are a really fast snowball down the hill and, and sometimes they were a slow burn. and either way they sort of present sort of different unique challenges to [00:24:00] an artist that I think sometimes people are really curious about.

And I’m curious what that like for you.

Boy Golden: And I guess,

Glen Erickson: I, I’ll let you

Boy Golden: you know,

Glen Erickson: part of my angle is like full transparency is just, always curious if that was the song that you would’ve thought been thing. Do you know what I mean? Like,

Boy Golden: I remember, um.

Glen Erickson: hearing an interview with Edward Sharp about that song home that totally blew up and stuff for them and became. That big song for them in all kinds of avenues and alt radio, which they never would’ve thought they were gonna play on and stuff. And, and hearing him say he, you know, when they’re writing songs, they wouldn’t, they didn’t finish that song and think, oh yeah, this is the one. And I’m curious what your experience with that, song has been.

Boy Golden: Yeah, I mean, when I wrote it, I didn’t think anything of it at all. I try, I guess I, I try to keep my mind pretty free of judgment around things that I just made. and I wrote it like some random Tuesday [00:25:00] morning, you know, just like I was saying, it was, I was going in there every couple days and making something new, and that’s what I made that day.

But I would, I will say that the more I sat with the demo I made, the more I was like, I think this one has some legs. And then when I made the final version. I mean, there’s a reason it’s the first song on the album. You know, I knew, I knew it was catchy and poppy and fun, and I thought people would like it.

I did. I think it was gonna go on the radio. No, I mean, it’s, it’s mixed in mono, uh,

Glen Erickson: saw that. I saw that.

Boy Golden: you know, it’s like, it’s not, it was not made to be on the radio. Nothing about my music has ever been radio focused, which I’m sure some people I work with would love it if more of it was, but it’s just I that’s not, you can’t do that.

You can, but I’m not going to, I guess.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. I mean, uh, you made the statement about you approach all these things without judgment. It’s interesting. That’s the second time I’ve heard that week. I think I was listening [00:26:00] to, I Can’t Place It, another podcast with an artist who was talking about that exact same phrase of it’s the only way to, to remain sort of consistent and pure in their approach is not judge themselves in the middle of trying to create something.

Boy Golden: Totally even afterwards, you know, like I, I struggle with it sometimes. I feel like I just went through a phase of a couple of weeks, maybe even a couple of months, where I just was feeling so, uh, um, I was feeling so like embarrassed of all of my past work and just feeling like, uh, just, I’m just so, shit, you know, I’m, what am I doing?

You know, and really like, what, what is that? Like who is that helping, you know? And. All that makes me do, when I sit down to write, which I still do all the time, it all that makes me do is makes it harder. It makes it harder to get to anything that is true. It makes me want to self aggrandize [00:27:00] or be more humble than I am or whatever.

It just makes me want to compensate for my own insecurity. And so really for me, the O, the only way is to try and just stay present and stay and try not to judge, you know, because you don’t know. You don’t always know what’s best. I’ll say that too, like most of the time the song that I think is the best song.

Isn’t. Uh, and a lot of the time when I finish a song that, and I’m so excited, I’m like, oh my God, I just wrote a smash and then I play it for someone else, and they’re like, yeah, it’s pretty good, you know? And then I sit with it for a couple weeks and I’m like, ah, god dammit. No, I didn’t. And it’s funny that like most of the best songs I’ve ever written, I write and then I, I don’t feel anything about them.

Maybe because I stayed in that spot. I’m not really sure why that is. I just, I viscerally had that experience, like writing for this album I just made where I [00:28:00] was, I was doing a bunch of co-writes, I think I wrote like 23 songs in, in February leading up to this, you know, and I already had, I’m, I’m, I’m a pretty consistent writer.

It’s part of how I do things. So I, I already had 70 and then I just like wrote all these extra ones while I was preparing to make this recording. And I remember this day coming home from this co-write and being like, so pumped. I was like, man, that was so fun. And I really, really, really, really liked this song.

And I sent it to my friend Fontine, who I pretty much send all of my songs to. And she was like, yeah, it’s pretty cool. And I was like, what do you mean? It’s pretty cool. This is amazing. And then, and then. A few days later, I was like done working for the day and just chilling and I was just like strumming my guitar a little bit.

I think I was watching TV and playing. Then I came up with something on the guitar and I was like, Hmm, that’s pretty cool. Paused it, wrote a song in like 15 minutes. I sent it to the producer, you know, went to bed. Next day he is like, I love [00:29:00] this. And I’m like, really? Like, yes, I love this. And then we recorded it and now it’s like one of the singles, it’s the title track of the album.

It’s, you know, it Know what I mean? So it doesn’t help to put a bunch of pressure on it. It doesn’t help to judge yourself. It just doesn’t,

Glen Erickson: yeah. I, I was listening to that song, Exploder Podcast’s been around forever and the artists talk about their songs and the number of times I’ve heard an

Boy Golden: I.

Glen Erickson: say this one almost didn’t make the album. And now it’s the one they’re talking about like years later, uh, is often surprising. I, I wonder also a little bit, Liam, if, if that sort of, like you said, you very often don’t have any feeling about it one way or the other. I’m wondering if that comes from your ability to become such a disciplined songwriter. Right. A lot of people still just write out of their feeling or their impulse, right? They pick up the guitar when they’re in a mood or, or feel like a, a burden to communicate something versus that [00:30:00] discipline. Like I, I’ve meet a lot of country people, right?

So they do all these rights in Nashville where it is such a, it’s such a disciplined, you know, it’s like, book me on my Calendly. I have a, a writing session available at 10 and two. You know, and, and that sort it on the surface looks like it takes the feel of it, but I think there’s a value to how you’re accomplishing what you’re accomplishing.

Boy Golden: A hundred percent.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Boy Golden: I think it’s so silly when people are like, like look down on people who do writing sessions or whatever. I’m like, you don’t know when the thing is gonna come. Why not sit at the desk and if it comes that day, at least you’ll be ready. You know, it’s like the amount of times I feel like, oh my God, I have something in me right now that I, that should come out and I’m like, at a grocery store or like completely unable to do it.

It, that’s so frustrating. Like, why would you wait? Just sit down and do it. And, [00:31:00] anyways, but it’s also fun and beautiful that other people feel so inspired. I feel like I always have something I can communicate. part of my practice is, uh, I do morning pages every day, so I, I write. Three pages in like a little journal like this of longhand stream of consciousness thought every day when I wake up.

And there’s always stuff up there. You’ve got your thoughts are, your thoughts are going all the time. There’s always feelings and uh, so that’s sort of how I try and stay connected with it. I will say that I go through, there are natural phases where I’m like not writing as much. It’s really hard to write on the road when you’re at our level ’cause it’s just so all consuming.

And then sometimes when I’m at home I just like, it’s not the time. You know? Like even right now

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Boy Golden: I feel like I put, I put so much of [00:32:00] myself into the record I just made, it’s was three years of writing, you know? Probably well over a hundred songs whittled down to 12. It’s like, I, yeah, I feel a little bit empty right now of, uh, of songs and I’m cool with that.

It’s like, who am I trying to impress, you know? But I, I still sit down with the guitar and I try and write, but I haven’t, I haven’t come up, I haven’t finished a whole song since March, probably. But I have dozens of little ideas. ’cause I still sit down to write, so I don’t know.

Glen Erickson: Well, I think that’s, I think that’s a great way to describe it. And again, like, I mean this, to be completely honest, this is why I do the podcast, Liam, is like, um. I, I just think you learn so much from hearing how somebody else has done it or experienced it, right? And the, the obvious takeaway to me there is that, yeah, you have your ebbs and flows like everybody, but the discipline part is what really, [00:33:00] it doesn’t rob you of inspiration to have the, a discipline, right?

All you’re doing is consistently tapping into something that’s there

Boy Golden: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: discipline instead of waiting around for inspiration. I used to work, uh, in his, in his early days with a, with Andy s Schoff, and he was a prolific writer. He just kept writing and writing. He wanted to do a double album and I was like, I don’t, are you sure you wanna do a double album?

I’m like, um, I probably had the nerve to say to him, maybe they’re not all great and you should just do a sneak of great. Um, which, you know, foot in my mouth. That guy, uh,

Boy Golden: No, you might have been right. I mean, who knows?

Glen Erickson: them. But, um, I think that’s a fantastic, fantastic discipline. I, you know, let me ask you this, ’cause I, I alluded to it earlier, but I found, I had watched a couple things.

You had even like a, a video you made shortly after, I think Katie and Lunch Meet [00:34:00] came out and a and a couple of interviews he had done. I, I read about, and I just, I saw an interesting thing in there about creativity and you were talking about things that you were discovering in your spirituality

Boy Golden: Hmm.

Glen Erickson: and, and wearing that on your sleeve kind of, and, and how much that had to do with creativity and how you people in general, just the way the world has worked in the industrial era for a, you know, hundred years has really robbed us of that.

I, I’m just curious what your thoughts are on that and what your own discovery and where that’s kind of led you. I mean, the thing I read was a couple years ago, I mean. I I, I’m just curious really what, where that has led you?

Boy Golden: My thoughts on spirituality is that kind of,

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Just how that’s developed in you from, from when you kind of were like, I think this is a thing, and then you’re able to start articulating it, but you’ve

Boy Golden: I’m still working on articulating it.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Boy Golden: think the more you, the more you are try to articulate it, the [00:35:00] harder it gets. In some ways it’s like, but yes, I would say that. My, what I would loosely call my spiritual life has become more and more important to me. Um, as I get older and go through life. Everything feels like it needs to be imbued with spirit to me.

And that is why I want to make music. That is why I want to have good relationships. That’s why I want to be healthy. That’s why I want to be present. That’s why I meditate. That’s why I write in my journal in the morning. It’s like, I’m, I, I want to be here for my life ultimately.

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Boy Golden: I don’t want it to, I don’t want to miss it.

And so the discipline of. Creating art, the discipline of songwriting, the discipline of musicianship. All of these things are, I want to [00:36:00] have more of it in my life and at and at the same time, because there are seasons to things and things do ebb and flow. If I’m gonna rest, I would like to be disciplined in that as well.

I would not like to spend my restful hours staring at my phone. I would like to spend it doing something that genuinely feels restful to me, whether that’s actually laying around or maybe that’s exercising, or maybe that’s volunteering or whatever it is. It’s like I, I’m just like always reminded how short, how precious this life we have is.

It just seems like the most important thing to me. And the other thing that that helps with is, uh. I obviously do care about my, the career, the business, all these things. I care about them a lot because I need to, because I need to make money and because I want to have a life and maybe I want to have a family someday, and who knows?

but at the same time, when I can ground myself in [00:37:00] that side of my life, the spiritual side of my life, all that doesn’t, all that doesn’t matter to me as much, and I can take it a little less seriously. Does that make sense? I didn’t say too, too much, but.

Glen Erickson: No, I think that was fa I think that’s really incredible. I mean, yeah, I think that’s really thoughtful. I, I don’t know, I don’t know that a lot of people talk about them in a way that they could comfortably talk about being so blended, if I can put it that way. Right. I, I think some people may be on some version of a journey, or some people may feel like some parts of their personal exploration is making it way into their music a little bit, and that’s still not the same as it clearly is the person.

Do you know what I mean by that? Like, I mean, can, you can, you can, you can

Boy Golden: Work on your,

Glen Erickson: personal exploration and sometimes that comes out as subject matter in your songs, right? Or your art. You may be a painter or whatever [00:38:00] it may be. but then you meet artists and it’s that version of, oh man, that. Those people more live and breathe what they’re saying all the time. Like you get a sense that it’s not just an excavation for the sake of being able to make some art with it. It’s, it’s an actual full embodiment journey. And so

Boy Golden: so when you said that, that makes sense. Perfect

Glen Erickson: it makes perfect

Boy Golden: sense, like

Glen Erickson: little

Boy Golden: little bit.

Glen Erickson: about you to want to ask the question. And that totally captures to me what I expected and hoped. I think it’s cool approach and a very, and even what you said at the start of, I don’t know if I still am articulating it, I think it’s, for me in my life, it’s because the deeper I usually dig, the bigger it gets. So for me to expect to be able to articulate it better over time, it’s actually the reverse.

It’s gonna get harder because more I learn the, the, the bigger it feels. I’m swimming in a bigger pool all the time and [00:39:00] take myself less seriously. But,

Boy Golden: Yeah, exactly. I mean, the first,

Glen Erickson: all that.

Boy Golden: the first page of, uh, the Tao Te Ching says the Tao that you can name is not the Tao. Right. And I think you could replace Tao with anything. The God that you can name is not God. You can’t, you can try, you can try to talk about it, but talking about it is not the direct experience of it.

And. Talking about creativity is not the experience of creativity, right? By the same, in the same lens. Um, it’s fun to talk, it’s, it’s fun to talk about and I love talking about it, but I, more and more lately I’ve been less interested in talking about it and more interested in just doing it. And that’s always been the case.

But for a while, initially, like especially five years ago when I was really getting into starting this project, [00:40:00] it’s like I was like bursting with this. Like, you guys, like your creative practice can be your spiritual practice. It’s the same thing. And now I’m kind of like, I don’t know, I feel, I feel like I’ve accepted that in more of a big way, but also have found a lot more nuance in it than just that.

And I’m going, I’m still kind of working out all my thoughts, but. It all comes down to just being, being, trying to be as present as you can and then, and then showing up for your, whatever your practice is.

Glen Erickson: yeah,

Boy Golden: Yeah. It’s hard. It’s, it’s hard to do. Yeah. Yeah.

Glen Erickson: totally get that. So you shift through all of that. I, I, I guess I’m curious where that puts you right now, talking a little bit about that sort of journey that you kind of am on and discovering yourself that way. you know, you make this first record that is kind of a, a shift away from what you were and you’re like, I need to take it so seriously.

You start writing, [00:41:00] you make a record. That record gets legs really quick for you. To the point where I’m assuming you probably assembled a team and everything, you know, in the business terms for most up and comers relatively quick.

Boy Golden: Not kind of, I actually did it myself for, besides I had a label, the label f found me quickly and, but like I did like everything myself until May of last year. Like manage managerial wise and even accounting wise and everything until I was like just about, just about ready to lose it. ’cause it, it fully got to be like all consuming and it really was seriously detrimental to my creative practice and thus my spiritual life.

And it was just like the whole thing was feeling very wrong. And then just as luck might have it, I very randomly got a message from this manager who was not offering to manage me. She was just [00:42:00] like. Hey, cool music. And I was like, thanks. And I was like, I kind of recognize your name. Then I went and looked her up.

I was like, oh, shit. She’s a pretty, pretty well-known music manager. And then I was like, Hey, do you know I don’t have a music manager? Would you like to chat? And then she was like, oh, I assumed you did. Like, yeah, let’s chat. And then, so for the past, I guess year and three months now, I’ve, I’ve had a, like a actual full compliment and it’s been so good.

I’ve been so, I’ve been so happy for it. I mean, I’m so impressed by people who can really just like run their whole business and do all, but the more, the more help I’ve gotten with all that, the better my actual inner life has felt. So I’m super, super grateful for it.

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Boy Golden: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Glen Erickson: I mean, so you came out of, I’m wondering, in the middle of, actually, this isn’t the question I’m gonna ask. The question I really wanted to ask was, you explained a whole bunch of this stuff, [00:43:00] you know, even what you’re just talking about now is like, there’s a lot of the business side of this stuff that it’s awesome that you do or can do as long as you can, but like everybody hits a point, it’s different for everyone probably.

So, but you talked about sort of that achieving this place of balance and, and uh, being present and all this. I’m wondering what parts, and maybe these are the parts you were just talking about, but what parts of being a full-time. Artist, are the ones that actually make it really hard to be a full-time artist.

Boy Golden: Yeah. Um, I think touring, I, I really like touring. Uh, I think a lot of people find it really, really hard. It’s, it can be really hard on your relationships. Uh, it can be hard on your body. It can be dangerous. It can be really, really not fun sometimes, like soul crushing and pointless. And,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Boy Golden: it looks, the internet makes it look glamorous.

Not many people are [00:44:00] gonna post about the empty rooms, but there most artists have empty rooms. Sometimes it happens, you know, so,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Boy Golden: that can, that can be hard.

Glen Erickson: day, you spent a whole day doing. Who knows what get to those two hours that were supposed to be special in. Who knows where to play an empty room,

Boy Golden: Yeah. Which is why I will say I’m extremely grateful for my band and I love touring with them because it doesn’t matter if there’s two people there. Sometimes when there’s two people there, that’s when we play our best show. ’cause we all just love playing with each other. And everyone’s such a great musician and we just go for it every single time.

That being said, the financial reality of playing to two people with a five person band and a sound tech is not possible to maintain. So

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Boy Golden: I try to do less of those. I’m doing a little more solo touring now, which I find I don’t really like it that much to be honest, but, um, I’m trying my best to make it.

it’s mostly just that I don’t really feel [00:45:00] great about my show, so I’m trying to make my show better when I play solo. yeah, I think that can be hard.

Glen Erickson: right?

Boy Golden: I think the money can be really hard, to be honest. It’s like you can sometimes just, just spend so much money. You, you feel like you’re making money, but you’re not.

Uh, it can be really confusing and hard to deal with and people can, I’ve, I can, you know, people can get themselves into pretty mysteriously bad financial situations. Debt wise and everything. And ’cause people tell you, you have to do this and that, and maybe you don’t, or maybe you do, but maybe it didn’t work out.

You took a gamble, didn’t work. These things happen. I think, I think money can be really hard on people. And then I think that, uh, social media, which we talked about before, trying to make all this stuff all the time and then also just like being constantly perceived online, I think can be really hard on you.

On you. So these are some of the more challenging things, I would say. I think for some people. Just to [00:46:00] add one more thing, I think for some people, lack of structure, it can be really, really bad for their mental, spiritual, physical wellbeing. Like you, you know, you’re working your day job and you’re doing your artist thing on the side, and you’re just dreaming about that day when you can just wake up and.

Do whatever you want all day. Well, it turns out doing whatever you want all day is a good way to do nothing all day

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Boy Golden: unless you have that, that practice where you’re like, oh, I know I can’t go for brunch ’cause I, I work at 10 in morning. You know? That’s, that’s the approach I try to take, but

Glen Erickson: mean, that’s exactly it. I mean, I’ve, I, in my life, in, in digital great graphic design history, I used to pay the bills through a lot. I, I’ve always experienced the thing that young designers or artists of any kind don’t realize, which is how, um. Incredibly paralyzing. A blank canvas can [00:47:00] be

Boy Golden: mm-hmm.

Glen Erickson: to people.

Boy Golden: Totally.

Glen Erickson: I would rather like give me some limitations and boundaries or structure, as you said, even something I have to try to excel within and grow out of and give me some friction, you know, to get, to get things working.

Boy Golden: Totally.

Glen Erickson: but you’re right, structure is, uh, really hard on lack of structure. It’s really hard on people. Um,

Boy Golden: Can I tell you about something that changed my life?

Glen Erickson: yeah. Please do.

Boy Golden: and this is something I still do regularly. It’s this thing that my friend Natalie Bour, who is actually my roommate currently, uh, she, Natalie and her partner Eric, are in this great band called Slow Spirit, and Natalie brought this creative practice thing into our friend group that, uh, we used to call it song Club, but now we call it song every week.

And what it is, is. One person [00:48:00] organizes it, they invite like a group of people and then group of songwriters typically. Uh, but you could do it with any art, whether it’s like literary or visual or whatever. But the point is, every Tuesday we do Tuesdays. I don’t know you can do any day. It doesn’t matter.

But we, we do it every two, every Tuesday night, you have to submit something that you call finished. It can be 30 seconds long. It can be three minutes long. It can be instrumental, it can be just acapella, it can be whatever it is, but it has to be finished to you. You have to submit that to her before you go to sleep on Tuesday night.

And then every week there’s like, then she makes a playlist of all of the submissions. And the only thing that happens if you don’t submit is that you’re outta the group for that month. Uh, so it’s just this self-imposed thing. ’cause it’s really fun to be a part of. ’cause you get to hear what all these other people are making and sometimes there’s really cool people in the group.

Like we’ve had, there’s been times when there’s been some pretty like well-known musicians and [00:49:00] artists in in the group. Group and it’s like very private. There’s, there’s some other rules too, but, um, it’s really fun. I’ve run them for my friends sometimes. Um, I’ve sometimes kept them going for months. and it’s just like a way to have that accountability with yourself and, but also like in a musical community.

And that’s been super fun. That, that, that is sort of, I, I mean, did my practice grow outta that or was that, I’m not really sure. I, I’ve always found it pretty easy. Some people find it really does not work for their. The way their creative mind works. Like I have a friend who is incredibly prolific, but he doesn’t make stuff like that.

It’s like one month he makes like 50 songs and then he doesn’t make anything for two months. And that’s just how he works. And it’s not like he has a problem finishing songs. You know what I mean? So I’m just like, well, this isn’t for you. But for me, I like just like [00:50:00] plugging away at something, you know? I love, that makes me happy.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. My A DHD probably falls with your friend more, where I

Boy Golden: Yeah,

Glen Erickson: ridiculous bursts and then,

Boy Golden: that’s cool. There’s nothing wrong with that. You know? Every, that’s the thing. That’s why doing these podcasts, they probably are really interesting for you. And also like listening to artists talk about their process is fascinating. Like, I love listening. I love just hearing about everyone’s different ways they do things.

Like some writers come out with a new book every year and a half and others take a decade, and it doesn’t mean that one of their books is better than the other book. It’s just like, that’s what you had to do. Um, so I guess if anyone.

Glen Erickson: so much time asking people advice and uh, I’m a pretty ballsy guy, so I’ve spent a lot of my life just asking people who have reputation or whatever, like some advice or, and, and I’m always looking for some tidbit. And I think subconsciously I assumed there would be [00:51:00] something there that would tell me this is the way, and then if I asked three people, I’d probably get the same answer and then it would confirm for me that this is the way And all that ever happened was that the answers were all different. They were usually terribly simplified, and terribly customed to themselves and who they were. And all it ever taught me was listen to everybody’s experience. You know, find, find some companionship in, in more in the, we all just figuring out how to be who we are, rather than assume that there’s some blueprint that I’m missing that will help me out.

And that’s a lot of why I’m interested in doing the podcast too. ’cause I think that’s the veil I wanna pull back

Boy Golden: Hmm,

Glen Erickson: for people is that, you know, there’s not a blueprint, but if you are willing to listen, there’s, uh, tons of things to learn from everybody.

Boy Golden: totally.

Glen Erickson: find some, solace, you know, in someone who does it [00:52:00] similar to you and you’re not crazy.

So,

Boy Golden: Yeah, I definitely think advice is worth being skeptical of. I just think, but I also am the same. I’ve like obsessively have asked for advice, listen to podcasts, listen to this and that. And every once in a while something comes along that I’m like, whoa, that is some good advice. And then it actually does, maybe, maybe it does actually change my life.

But you, so many things have to be in the right spot for a piece of advice to hit you. You have to be ready for that. You have, you know, it has to be every, all the stars have to align. So my favorite piece of advice that I’ve ever gotten is just to, just keep doing it. Don’t give up. Just go.

Glen Erickson: I hear a lot of that.

Boy Golden: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: uh, that’s cool. I’m looking forward to hearing all that. Well, uh, I really appreciate your time, uh, Liam and I appreciate, uh, some transparency and honesty and just the way you approach just chatting with me about creativity, which isn’t as fun as being [00:53:00] creative.

I know, but, um,

Boy Golden: No, I’m not sure about that.

Glen Erickson: means a lot.

Boy Golden: Sometimes doing the thing is also not fun. I like, I do like chatting about it, so thanks for asking the questions. Yeah,

Glen Erickson: I really appreciate it. I appreciate your time and, uh, I’m looking forward to seeing you when you come around or out on the road and touching base and maybe giving you a real life handshake at some point would be awesome too. So I appreciate you. Thanks for all of this, and we’ll talk again soon.

Boy Golden: thanks. Yeah, thanks very much. Talk to you later. Bye.

Glen Erickson: You bet.

 

Glen Erickson: All good.

Glen: Okay. Well, we’re back on season two and welcome back to Post Fame. I’m Glen. This is Alexi I,

alexi: Hey.

Glen: hi. Coming back in with season two wrap up of our episodes. Uh, we. We probably had the best conversational gold before I hit record just now.

[00:54:00] So we just covered like, uh, that I gave you a bad hairline and. To make sure that you were wearing pants and then you brushed the screen with a brush and then we changed the microphone with, yeah, we did some A SMR on your little microphone. Anyhow, so we’ve really covered a lot of bases before I even hit record, but that’s kind of the nature of what we do.

Yeah. Okay. So we’re back and we’re happy and we’ve got all these episodes. I can’t wait to roll out to people and some really cool people. And starting off season two with Boy Golden, uh, Liam, who I had been, you know, trying and looking forward to talking to a long. Part of the way through season one and was really excited when the opportunity kinda lined up, uh, to have a conversation, which was pretty cool.

And I guess sort of serendipitous I see is that this is Folk Fest weekend coming up

alexi: say that.

Glen: and it was last year

alexi: Yep.

Glen: got to [00:55:00] watch. Uh, boy Golden have a couple performances. I thought. Um, obviously his. His own concert that they always have at a folk fest was great, really great. that was on, oh shoot. See how many years have we been going?

And I still forget the proper stage numbers, but it was the big one that’s kind of in between. Do you know that one? I mean.

alexi: I.

Glen: So it wasn’t stage, I think six or the one that’s at the very end by the food tent. But then there’s the one in the middle that kind of has usually the biggest like grass area.

Anyhow, I, I, that’s what I remember distinctly of his own show. But then I also remember the, one of the best part about folk fests is, um.

alexi: the

Glen: side stage, the collabs. Yeah, that’s what we would call them. They call them workshops and I don’t know how they qualify as workshops still to this day, but, uh, they’re definitely collabs, which are fun and he totally killed it there with, um, I don’t know if he had all of his band or a good portion with him anyhow.

[00:56:00] Uh, and here we are talking about him exactly a year later after

alexi: I was gonna

Glen: an episode. So.

alexi: that like prior to Folk Fest, I always make like my folk Fest playlist and like take. All the names of the people and add like two to three of their songs. Um, and then like the weeks leading into Folk Fest, I like shuffle it on all my drives and whatnot. Um, and it always ends up with me not pulling a glen and missing a really good artist that I’ll have regrets about later. You know what I mean?

Glen: Shots fired. Wow.

alexi: So anyways,

Glen: Fair. But okay.

alexi: no, totally fair. But I remember last year, um. I had added, he was one of the few artists where I had added the name and I’m like, this sounds familiar, but I’m not familiar with the music. And then listened. It was like, I need to see this live kind of thing. Um, and it really paid off, I think. Uh, so then yeah, I was, I was thinking, and I remember we were talking when you started the podcast about like possible guests and we were kind of [00:57:00] running through like who have we seen at Folk Fest in the past few years? Who would like be cool guests, you know, if this podcast

Glen: Yeah.

alexi: Um, happened and I think like he was also one of the names that was kind of first dropped by you and I of like, wouldn’t it be kind of cool if like we had Boy Golden on the podcast?

Like, so I think

Glen: Yeah, a hundred percent. I, I just knew that there was more of a story that I wanted to find out because he fit in well, vibe for sure. Like, and that’s, and I don’t know, and I guess this is what we’ll find out. Like I felt that there was definitely. He was, his vibe was very clear and present in the conversation about exactly what it would be like to just, you know, sit down at a food court with him and talk, or some, I don’t know why I said food court, but, um, definitely the fact that.

You know, I think he got on a lot of people’s radar for the song KD and Lunch Meat, which hit like alt rock radio and did really, really well and kind of became a, a fixture. And it [00:58:00] was one of those common instances where a band has a song like that that kind of satisfies wider taste, so it gets on the radio, but then.

The rest of their music maybe would never hit the radio the same way.

alexi: Yeah.

Glen: And then I get really curious about what kind of artists they really are. So,

alexi: Yeah.

Glen: but I think that definitely got satisfied when you watch him play. Like there’s just a lot of soul and a lot of, a lot of different musical influence and inspiration in what he does.

And it’s definitely the way he likes to play. With people. But, anyhow, I’ll let you, I know you took some notes.

alexi: That leads in ’cause there’s kind of two, things that I like picked up on and you kind of just like led into both of them equally. But, um, the

Glen: That’s called serendipity, by the way.

alexi: that’s called yeah.

Glen: I’m good at it.

alexi: Yeah, it

Glen: I.

alexi: Um, yeah, the first thing was like, just small note, but I was, um, I thought it was really interesting when he was talking about how his, like Ka [00:59:00] song was the one that hit the radio and then how he kind of was talking for a few minutes about how, um. like the songs he doesn’t expect to like kind of blow up or do well that do. And then the ones where, um, and he said it’s so funny and I can’t remember the word, but he, the tone of his voice, he was like, I just wrote a banger. And it was like, so

Glen: Yeah. Yeah.

alexi: And he is like, it never turns out to

Glen: I.

alexi: song. Um, and I did think that’s so true with like all kind of forms of art and you hear it so many times, especially with like bands who like get big, Like, like really, really, really huge bands who like their random song gets really viral and then everyone at the concerts wants to hear it like played three times in a row.

And then, you know, they’re on two for long enough and they get sick of it and then they just like stop playing it. And the people are mad, but they’re like, we don’t even really like that song. Like, we don’t wanna play that

Glen: Well,

alexi: Like we didn’t expect that.

Glen: first of all, most people just really, really want to hear it in the concert. You’re the one that who wants to hear it three times in a row ’cause you play songs over and over. We’ve [01:00:00] established that, but uh, no, I totally think you’re right. And it reminds me of like, yeah, I, well you just referenced it.

I’ve heard so many. Like interviews with artists or even like, you know, when they talk to a band about their big breakout song 20 years down the road and you find out that like, because there’s so many people in the process, right? When they’re a bigger band with a label and there’s like a lot of people in the chain making decisions and you hear them say, oh, the label wanted me to release.

This song, and I didn’t want to release this song. I want, we thought it was gonna be another song, and then they decided to put this one out and then it became the hit. So like there’s all kinds of lure about that happening in the business. So, you know, and then he, yeah, he kind of has his own experience with it.

alexi: Yeah.

Glen: Yeah.

alexi: yeah, I just thought that was so, so real though. ’cause you hear it so much from like, big artists. I think it’s like, just interesting for me to hear it from like an artist who’s not like, you know, the size of like the Lumineers, because I’ve heard them [01:01:00] say it for sure. And like,

Glen: Yeah. Yeah.

alexi: mass.

Glen: a middle class artist. Yeah.

alexi: And it’s like, oh, like it’s, you know, it’s true for. Everyone. So I thought that was really interesting. and then the other piece was kind of the conversational part, which you were just like mentioning of like the, oh, you can sit down in a food court is like the quote I wrote down and it was the only one was like, you guys, it was right at the end and you guys were chatting and then you like like almost cuts you off and just goes, can I tell you about something that changed my life? And I just think that’s so funny. And it also just like, I don’t know from what I got from like the whole podcast episode is like, so him. Of just like the, Hey, can I just like tell you something that changed my life? Um, and I love, I love that he jumped in like that and like kind of started his own little chat. Um, but it was with the, like his friends doing song of the week, kind of that song club. and just getting something on paper and having to submit it and then the accountability of like, if you don’t, you’re out for the month. And like, so there’s like kind of a pressure put on you. and I

Glen: Which, which [01:02:00] works if it’s a cool kids club, so

alexi: yeah.

Glen: you don’t want, you don’t want to get kicked out. So they’ve obviously

alexi: Yeah,

Glen: now, it obviously to me is a cool club if nobody wants to get kicked out of it. Yeah.

alexi: otherwise people would be like, oops, didn’t, didn’t submit a song like, see you next month. Um, no, but there was two parts that I really liked and like one, and you and I have talked about this, is like, um, just like getting stuff down on paper. Um, because like you and I have talked about how important it is, um, to just like journal and write. Um, and get thoughts down. and I really just like that he, he does that, but also that he like talks about how it can be a struggle. I just thought that was

Glen: Yeah.

alexi: and real. ’cause like I think that’s so true. And it’s true for an artist his size, which is interesting too.

Glen: Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s a struggle, but at the same time, he was just so clear that it was a discipline, right. It was like, he didn’t talk about it like he was in the middle of the dis like the struggle. He, he talked about like, this is just what I [01:03:00] do. And I guess the part that’s surprising to me when I hear that is you just expect a lot of artists, but especially an artist sort of in his very.

Kind of laid back style of music, you expect a little more of that hippie ethos of just like, I just write songs and I pull them outta the universe. Right? And then they come together and if it works, it works. And if it doesn’t, but no, he’s like, I get up and I go to the studio. Not because I have an idea, but for the discipline of writing and recording on, you know, multiple days a week.

And he gets up and he writes in a journal every day and he does stream of consciousness writing. And that’s the part I was gonna, I don’t know if. I don’t know if you could tell. Like it definitely changed my energy when him and I started talking about some of that. And I, and he, and again, he said a couple things that really caught me.

And I think there’s even once in the conversation where I was just like, oh man, that’s good because, it just [01:04:00] really impacted me, I think, because just where I’m at, uh, I’ve felt like I’ve been using the phrase with everybody, I need to start closing some tabs in my head. Like I just have too many tabs open in my head.

And. Yeah, and I’ve heard a lot of people talk about the discipline of writing before, and I’m terrible at any version of those disciplines. I always have been. I’ve just kind of rebelled against them and yeah, here I was and well, I guess the summary. Here’s the, here’s the, here’s the big point is that after him and I recorded this episode, I started getting up and writing.

alexi: And

Glen: Uh.

alexi: say is like you were talking about you doing that I obviously have like four journals on my bedside table. Um, but like you and I

Glen: I know I’ve read them all. I’ve read them all. They’re great. It’s great stuff.

alexi: You’re not funny. Um, you are not funny at all actually. But like you and I did relate about how hard it is to like. Um, [01:05:00] have that you know what I mean? Like,

Glen: Yeah.

alexi: bad for it. Like I date all

Glen: I.

alexi: um, journal stuff and like you’ll have like a good solid three weeks where I’m just sending it every night and I’m like, and then there’s just like a eight month gap in there and I’m like, oh, like, wow, I suck. But I like the accountability that they have, um, to each

Glen: yeah,

alexi: Like, I think

Glen: yeah.

alexi: really

Glen: I do. I do too. And there was, you know, he sort of hinted towards some things that I’ve been reading and listening to that other people who have been inspiring me lately have said, and. And it’s about this idea of like not editing yourself and in the creative process and then retrospectively, sort of like what you’re saying with your journals, like I’ve got years of, if I’m being really honest, probably regrets of not finishing creative work or ambitions or goals because that narrative in my head allowed me to edit myself and not [01:06:00] do things unless I thought they were.

A certain thing I wanted or they were good enough really most of the time, and, and that’s regretful and I’m just at a place where I don’t want that. And then I see, and he just felt so inspiring to me in that. He doesn’t edit himself, he just lets the ideas go and he gets to the, you know, the end of them and he, and the ones that have something for him to go back to and, and to work on than he works on.

But the discipline and the habit, and, uh, this is the point actually, I wanted to make Lex that was even bigger. That was the part that also really inspired me is that if you really want to dig in with somebody, you want to ask why. Right.

alexi: Yeah,

Glen: it so important to you? Like why is the discipline there, uh, for so long?

Like, what’s the payoff? And he was like, the payoff is that I want to be healthy. The, the payoff is like, doing this [01:07:00] helps me. Yeah, it helps me deal with a bunch of stuff. It helps me deal with what’s in my head. It it, it keeps me accountable to the thing that matters to me, and then I start to apply the same discipline to these other habits.

And he’s trying to like, eat better or, or be better in different ways. And he said, just so that I can be present. I think he sort of summarized this, these different things and he said like, I just wanna be present for my life. And, and I was like. Yeah, who doesn’t want that? You know? And when someone gives you sort of a, this was the road that I actually found to get there, you can’t help but stop and think maybe there’s something on that road I should be paying attention to for myself.

So, and I just love that kind of inspiration. And then I, I think I just felt really, really lucky to get that conversation, the unlucky part of the conversation. Which I don’t mind sharing here is that I lost like the last 15 minutes of it, and I’m so unlucky and I’m so [01:08:00] sad now. The truth was that at least when I listened back, it wasn’t.

Like it wasn’t the same stuff. Do you know what I mean? Like he was talking a little bit about what’s coming up and some shows, and that he’s gonna be at Edmonton at this new, like little mini folk fest in September, which is kind of interesting. But he’s gonna be with Kat Clyde, who we’ve talked about on the show that Grant Lawrence first recommended and she was a part of writing a bunch of songs on the record that he’s just finished.

And so we kind of missed a bunch of that. So that’s the unlucky part that I was disappointed in, but. That’s life.

alexi: That is life,

Glen: That is life. So,

alexi: what a

Glen: anyhow, good conversation. Good way to start. Lots of things in there. I mean, I’m always hoping that there’s things for people who are still in the, the chase, you know, who are still wanting to either at the start of how do I do music, how do I try to make it a career?

You know, you wanna pull something from somebody who’s appears to be doing it successfully. [01:09:00] And I think he gave us so much to learn and to think about and be inspired by. So I’m super appreciative. Yeah,

alexi: Yeah, I liked it a lot.

Glen: I like it.

alexi: You like it?

Glen: I like it a lot. Uh, you’re too young and I never. The movie Dumb and Dumber was never part of the canon of theater that I thought I should teach you. There’s lots of other great movies I made sure you watched, but so you wouldn’t.

alexi: some niche movies that no one knew and

Glen: Sorry about that,

alexi: I’m

Glen: but, but, um, as a result, you and I got to go see the new Wes Anderson flick, because now we have a shared love of Wes Anderson. So it paid off for me.

alexi: wanna hear

Glen: I,

alexi: take actually about that film really quick.

Glen: oh, have you been thinking about a hot take?

alexi: It’s not a hot take specifically about the film. I would not go see it twice. I loved it. it was so good and I thought watching it was so, so great, and especially that we got to do it at Metro, but I don’t think it’s a [01:10:00] film. I’d be like, yeah, it’s still playing this week. Let me go to Metro a second time to watch it again

Glen: Okay, so also help me because it’s called the Phoenician.

alexi: if a ahe scheme.

Glen: Scheme. See, I keep losing the last word and I’m like, did I hate the movie? ’cause I can’t even remember

alexi: even

Glen: that. But I didn’t, I didn’t hate the movie at all. Like, that’s a, that’s a good hot take. I get that. I mean, the opening scene on the plane was so perfectly, the color

alexi: Anderson

Glen: the symmetry was so perfect.

So immediately my heart was warm.

alexi: Yeah.

Glen: wanna know what my hot take was? I kind of fell asleep in the middle. Yeah. And so here’s my bigger hot take. That’s not the first Wes Anderson movie that I fell asleep in. And the thinking about it is like, I love his movies so much, but I, I’ve fallen asleep.

alexi: His beginnings and his endings are [01:11:00] incredibly dramatic and really draw you in. of his movie are just so thick with plot and information that sometimes it’s just like, wow, this is a little bit long.

Glen: You are right, and I think that’s the perfect way to put it. I think the middle of his movies. The, the, he loves setting up all these different characters and these characters, obviously. Yeah. And they have backstory and you, and they’re, they’re weaving together right away, but you don’t know how deep that goes until he, the payoff all the time, but you never get the payoff until the end, which means, yeah, in the middle.

In the middle. His chosen process is usually. Just to keep trudging through all of the details on everybody and, and it puts this guy to sleep somehow. I don’t know what it is, and it might have just been, I was really tired and the popcorn was really good, so it was a [01:12:00] later show, but that like it was nine o’clock and so if I actually say it was late, then people are gonna call me grandpa, so I don’t want to do that.

But, well that’s our hot take. Uh, we don’t even have to do a musical hot take because we just shared with people a different art form.

alexi: yeah.

Glen: Hot take, and I’m sure we’ll have a lot more hot takes to talk about some bands that we got to see live, after Folk Fest. And,

alexi: Yeah.

Glen: one thing I’m gonna start doing for everybody to know, I’ve pulled together a, a little series I’m gonna do on social media, I think of, concerts that inspired me.

Um, that I, that I still have on my phone. I’ve recorded, obviously lots of clips and scenes from a lot of shows, but I, I, it’s like I post them to my stories and then I dump them from my phone.

alexi: Yeah.

Glen: Now I’m feeling maybe that isn’t a very good plan because I am lacking a lot of shows that I would’ve wanted to share a clip from and talk about.

anyhow, the greater purpose of it is. [01:13:00] I’ve just had a run of seeing some great shows. I’m just feeling re-inspired by going to live shows, right? In that I think everybody needs to go watch bands play their songs, or artists sing their songs in person to actually feel them and understand them the way that they wanted to deliver them.

And it, if you want to really feel music like you have to see. Live music. And I’m just gonna start, getting on that soapbox. I, I, this is now my soapbox for that, so I’m sorry everybody. Not sorry, but, okay. Okay.

alexi: Okay,

Glen: That’s it, that’s all.

alexi: see you tomorrow at Folk Fest.

Glen: See you tomorrow at Focused. Thank you.

alexi: or, see you on the Hill.

Glen: Oh, that’s what they say. See you on the hill.

Very well done apropos. Okay. Thank you. Love you.

alexi: Love you. Bye.